I pose a simple few questions

originally posted by: Lora73

The oldest lists of the Vedas are far older than the Egyptian civilization, ...

The earliest hymns of the four Vedas (Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, and Atharva-Veda) were composed approximately 3,000 years ago and were transmitted orally from teacher to pupil. “It was only in the fourteenth century A.D. that the Veda was written down.”—A History of India, P. K. Saratkumar, 1978, page 24.

That's around 1000 B.C.E. "The Egyptian civilization" is far older.

...

Since the Bible points to the year 2370 B.C.E. as the date of the global Flood, Egyptian history must have begun after that date. The problems in Egyptian chronology shown above are doubtless responsible for the figures advanced by modern historians who would run Egyptian history all the way back to the year 3000 B.C.E.

...

Source: Chronology (Insight on the Scriptures)

...

History. Egyptian history from secular sources is very uncertain, especially for the earlier periods.​—See CHRONOLOGY (Egyptian Chronology).

Abraham’s visit. Sometime after the Flood (2370-2369 B.C.E.) and the subsequent split-up of the peoples at Babel, Hamites occupied Egypt. By the time (sometime between 1943 B.C.E. and 1932 B.C.E.) that famine forced Abraham (Abram) to leave Canaan and go down to Egypt, a kingdom was functioning under a Pharaoh (unnamed in the Bible).​—Ge 12:4, 14, 15; 16:16.

...

Source: Egypt, Egyptian (Insight on the Scriptures)

All those dates are older than the earliest hymns of the four Vedas. Almost a thousand years at least. Not that it should matter much though when it comes to the question as to whether or not they contain accurate knowledge of truth. It wouldn't be the first time that claiming the dignity of old(er) age, has been used as a marketing/propaganda ploy to make the teachings appear more enlightening, more original, more appealing to those who think that it is a significant point (“to win over public opinion” as they put it below).

...

“Christianity” Becomes a Philosophy

The philosopher Celsus mockingly described Christians as “labourers, shoemakers, farmers, the most uninformed and clownish of men.” This mockery was too much for the apologists to bear. They determined to win over public opinion by resorting to a new tactic. Once rejected, worldly wisdom was now used in the service of the “Christian” cause. Clement of Alexandria, for example, saw philosophy as “true theology.” Justin, though claiming to reject pagan philosophy, was the first to use philosophical language and concepts to express “Christian” ideas, considering this type of philosophy “to be safe and profitable.”

From this point on, the strategy was, not to oppose philosophy, but to make supposed Christian thought a philosophy higher than that of the pagans. “On some points we teach the same things as the poets and philosophers whom you honour, and on other points are fuller and more divine in our teaching,” wrote Justin. Adorned with its new philosophical finery, “Christian” thought now claimed the dignity of old age. The apologists pointed out that Christian books were far older than those of the Greeks and that the prophets of the Bible lived earlier than Greek philosophers. Certain apologists even concluded that the philosophers copied from the prophets. Plato was made out to be a disciple of Moses!

Christianity Distorted

This new strategy led to a mixture of Christianity and pagan philosophy. Comparisons were made between Greek gods and Bible characters. Jesus was compared to Perseus; and Mary’s conception to that of Perseus’ mother, Danaë, who was said to be also a virgin.

...

Source: The Apologists—Christian Defenders or Would-Be Philosophers?

originally posted by: JimmyNeutr0n
"Light is particles called Protons, which are part of the electro-magnetic sphere that carry a specific amount of energy."

Don't you mean photons?

It is generally believed that light consists of energy particles that have wave properties. To this day, however, man still cannot give a complete answer to the question propounded over three millenniums ago by the Creator of light: “Where, now, is the way by which the light distributes itself?”​—Job 38:24.

Coming somewhat back to the topic in my previous comment (or at least the part in the OP that Lora73 was responding to) ...

originally posted by: JimmyNeutr0n

Astronomy, geometry, everything goes back to Egypt. Pythagoras' famous theorem was actually conceptualized by the Egyptians way before the time of Pythagoras. Modern medicine, science, all roots back to ancient Egypt.

...

Egyptian Life and Culture. Scholars have long presented Egypt as the ‘most ancient civilization’ and as the source of many of mankind’s earliest inventions and progress. More recently, however, the accumulated evidence has pointed to Mesopotamia as the so-called cradle of civilization. Certain Egyptian architectural methods, the use of the wheel, perhaps the basic principles of their pictographic writing, and particularly the fundamental features of Egyptian religion are all thought to have had a Mesopotamian origin. This, of course, is in accord with the Bible record of the dispersion of peoples following the Flood.

...

Source: Egypt, Egyptian (Insight on the Scriptures)

Zooming in on the bolded part for a moment...

... Following the Flood of Noah’s day, false religion had its beginning at Babel (later known as Babylon). (Gen. 10:8-10; 11:4-9) In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So Babylon the Great became a fitting name for false religion as a whole.

...

Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide

“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.

Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

Use of images: “[In Mesopotamian religion] the role of the image was central in the cult as well as in private worship, as the wide distribution of cheap replicas of such images shows. Fundamentally, the deity was considered present in its image if it showed certain specific features and paraphernalia and was cared for in the appropriate manner.”—Ancient Mesopotamia—Portrait of a Dead Civilization (Chicago, 1964), A. L. Oppenheim, p. 184.

Belief regarding death: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [in Babylon] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556.

Position of the priesthood: “The distinction between priest and layman is characteristic of this [Babylonian] religion.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1948), Vol. 2, p. 861.

Practice of astrology, divination, magic, and sorcery: Historian A. H. Sayce writes: “[In] the religion of ancient Babylonia . . . every object and force of nature was supposed to have its zi or spirit, who could be controlled by the magical exorcisms of the Shaman, or sorcerer-priest.” (The History of Nations, New York, 1928, Vol. I, p. 96) “The Chaldeans [Babylonians] made great progress in the study of astronomy through an effort to discover the future in the stars. This art we call ‘astrology.’”—The Dawn of Civilization and Life in the Ancient East (Chicago, 1938), R. M. Engberg, p. 230.

Source: Babylon the Great (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

That's just a small sample, evolutionary philosophies also originate from Babylon (the religious and philosophical propaganda center of the ancient world), and are motivated by religious philosophy and connected to Mother Nature worship and pantheism.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

Knowledge (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

...
Knowledge (gno'sis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) ...
... Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [...] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

I used that expression at the end, in my previous comment.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Lucifer, satan, the devil, whatever you choose to label it, was the created and highest of the angels, fell out with God and rebelled. Prometheus, different story altogether and different outcome
But no matter as its conjecture and your beliefs

As for Egypt, yes advanced and no, they were lacking in some other basic sciences, seriously lacking

As for Christianity and Hinduism
No, not really simmilar at al
www.evidenceunseen.com...

Nature of God Monotheism: Infinite and personal Pantheism: Infinite and impersonal
Creation Creatio Ex nihilo: Latin for “Creation f ... Cyclical creation: Creation occurs and reincarnation
Personhood Our personhood is a first-person experie ... Our personhood is an illusion
The Afterlife Grace and eternal life; we will experien ... Karmic law and reincarnation; finally re ...

Christianity has no chakras, no kabbalah and the Tree of Life was blocked from our options, irrelevant

I think your premise is flawed if relating it to christianity

originally posted by: HilterDayon

Hey Jimmy.

Well I kind of assumed that defining inner light was where you were heading with your O.P. I mean seeing that this forum is the Conspiracies In Religion domain. You began by defining the source of light and then how light is processed and interpreted by the eyes and asked: "not what light does, but what it actually is."

I don't think that my questions make the conversation murky - that would mean that light is being defused somehow. We say that we "bring light" to a matter in order to clarify it. Also I have not intended to discuss the existence or non-existence of God or a god. I am also interested in defining what light is and its various sources and origins.

..

In that light (pardon the pun), let's have a look at how the word "light" is used in the Bible (even though that will probably not interest or intrigue you, or 'tickle your ears' as 2 Tim 4:3,4 puts it).

The Hebrew term ʼohr and the Greek term phos refer to that which emanates from a light-giving body such as a lamp (Jer 25:10) or the sun, as well as to the opposite of darkness, literally and figuratively. (Isa 5:20; Joh 11:10, 11)

Light from the sun is a combination of colors, with each color having a different wavelength. The color of an object is determined by the particular portion of the light reflected by its surface. Thus light furnishes the many hues that delight the eye of man. It is also essential for earthly life​—plant, animal, and human—​to continue.

The Source of Light. Jehovah God is the Former of light and the Creator of darkness. (Isa 45:7) It was on the first creative day that he said: “Let light come to be.” (Ge 1:3) Earlier he had created the heavens (including “the great lights”​—the sun, moon, and stars; compare Ps 136:7-9) and the earth. (Ge 1:1) So the bringing of light into existence with reference to the earth apparently involved gradually removing whatever had formerly obstructed the sun’s rays from reaching this planet. And the “division” between light and darkness must have come about through the rotation of the earth as it moved around the sun. (Ge 1:4, 5) Much later Jehovah plagued the sun-worshiping Egyptians with darkness, a darkness that did not affect the Israelites. (Ex 10:21-23) In leading his people out of Egypt, he provided light by means of a pillar of fire.​—Ex 13:21; 14:19, 20; Ps 78:14.

The Scriptures repeatedly associate light with its Creator. Stated the psalmist: “O Jehovah my God, you have proved very great. With dignity and splendor you have clothed yourself, enwrapping yourself with light as with a garment.” (Ps 104:1, 2) This declaration harmonizes well with Ezekiel’s description of what he saw in vision: “I got to see something like the glow of electrum, like the appearance of fire all around inside thereof, from the appearance of his hips and upward; and from the appearance of his hips and downward I saw something like the appearance of fire, and he had a brightness all around. There was something like the appearance of the bow that occurs in a cloud mass on the day of a pouring rain. That is how the appearance was of the brightness round about. It was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of Jehovah.” (Eze 1:27, 28) Centuries earlier, just a partial manifestation of that glory caused Moses’ face to emit rays.​—Ex 33:22, 23; 34:29, 30.

“God is light and there is no darkness at all in union with him.” (1Jo 1:5) He is righteous, upright, and holy (De 32:4; Re 4:8), having nothing in common with the degrading and unclean practices commonly linked with darkness. (Compare Job 24:14-16; 2Co 6:14; 1Th 5:7, 8.) Therefore persons who are walking in the darkness by manifesting hatred for their brother and who are not practicing the truth could never be in union with him.​—1Jo 1:6; 2:9-11.

Jehovah is “the Father of the celestial lights.” (Jas 1:17) Not only is he the “Giver of the sun for light by day, the statutes of the moon and the stars for light by night” (Jer 31:35) but he is also the Source of all spiritual enlightenment. (2Co 4:6) His law, judicial decisions, and word are a light to those allowing themselves to be guided by them. (Ps 43:3; 119:105; Pr 6:23; Isa 51:4) The psalmist declared: “By light from you we can see light.” (Ps 36:9; compare Ps 27:1; 43:3.) Just as the light of the sun continues to get brighter from dawn until “the day is firmly established,” so the path of the righteous ones, illuminated by godly wisdom, gets lighter and lighter. (Pr 4:18) To follow the course that Jehovah outlines is to walk in his light. (Isa 2:3-5) On the other hand, when a person looks at things in an impure way or with evil design, he is in great spiritual darkness. As Jesus put it: “If your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is!”​—Mt 6:23; compare De 15:9; 28:54-57; Pr 28:22; 2Pe 2:14.

Light and the Son of God. Since his resurrection and ascension to heaven, Christ Jesus, “the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,” “dwells in unapproachable light.” That light is so glorious that it makes it impossible for weak human eyes to behold him. (1Ti 6:15, 16) In fact, one man, Saul (Paul) of Tarsus was blinded by the light from heaven seen by him at the time the glorified Son of God revealed himself to this persecutor of Jesus’ followers.​—Ac 9:3-8; 22:6-11.

During his earthly ministry Jesus Christ was a light, furnishing spiritual enlightenment concerning God’s purposes and will for those who would gain divine favor. (Joh 9:5; compare Isa 42:6, 7; 61:1, 2; Lu 4:18-21.) Initially, only “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” received benefit from that “great light.” (Isa 9:1, 2; Mt 4:13-16; 15:24) But spiritual enlightenment was not to be limited just to the natural Jews and proselytes. (Joh 1:4-9; compare Ac 13:46, 47.) When the infant Jesus was presented at the temple, aged Simeon referred to him as “a light for removing the veil from the nations.” (Lu 2:32) As Paul explained to the Ephesians, uncircumcised non-Jews had been in the dark respecting God and his purposes: “Formerly you were people of the nations as to flesh; ‘uncircumcision’ you were called by that which is called ‘circumcision’ made in the flesh with hands​—that you were at that particular time without Christ, alienated from the state of Israel and strangers to the covenants of the promise, and you had no hope and were without God in the world.” (Eph 2:11, 12) However, when the good news about the Christ was brought to the non-Jews, those who responded favorably were ‘called out of darkness into God’s wonderful light.’ (1Pe 2:9) But others continued to allow the one who transforms himself into “an angel of light” or enlightenment (2Co 11:14), “the god of this system of things,” to blind them so ‘that the illumination of the good news about the Christ might not shine through.’ (2Co 4:4) They preferred darkness, for they wanted to continue in their selfish course.​—Compare Joh 3:19, 20.

Followers of Christ Become Lights. Those who exercised faith in Christ Jesus as “the light of the world” and became his followers themselves came to be “sons of light.” (Joh 3:21; 8:12; 12:35, 36, 46) They made known to others the requirements for gaining God’s favor and life, doing so “in the light,” that is, openly. (Mt 10:27) Similarly, John the Baptizer had served as a light when “preaching baptism in symbol of repentance” and pointing forward to Messiah’s coming. (Lu 3:3, 15-17; Joh 5:35) Also, by their fine works, by word and example, followers of Christ let their light shine. (Mt 5:14, 16; compare Ro 2:17-24.) “The fruitage of the light consists of every sort of goodness and righteousness and truth.” It therefore exposes the baseness of the shameful works belonging to darkness (fornication, uncleanness of every kind, greediness, and the like) practiced by “the sons of disobedience.” As a result these shameful works are seen in their true light and, in the sense of being manifested as things condemned by God, become light themselves. (Eph 5:3-18; compare 1Th 5:4-9.) Equipped with “weapons of the light,” the spiritual armor from God, Christians wage warfare “against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places” and are enabled thereby to stand firm as approved servants of God.​—Ro 13:12-14; Eph 6:11-18.

Other Figurative Uses. The Scriptures contain many figurative references to light. Ability to see is meant by the words “the light of my own eyes.” (Ps 38:10) For God to “give light” to someone means that he gives them life or allows them to continue living. (Job 3:20, 23; compare Ps 56:13.) “Children that have seen no light” are those who are born dead. (Job 3:16; compare Ps 49:19.) “It is good for the eyes to see the sun” may be understood to mean ‘it is good to be alive.’​—Ec 11:7.

Morning light is picturesquely described as ‘taking hold of the ends of the earth and shaking the wicked out of it,’ because dawn disperses evildoers. Darkness is their “light,” for they are accustomed to carrying out their evil deeds under its cover, and this figurative “light” is taken from them by the literal light of dawn.​—Job 38:12-15; compare Job 24:15-17.

As the light of the sun is clearly observable, thus Jehovah’s adverse judgments are obvious. This is alluded to at Hosea 6:5: “The judgments upon you will be as the light that goes forth.”

The ‘light of God’s face’ means divine favor. (Ps 44:3; 89:15) “Lift up the light of your face upon us” is an expression meaning ‘show us favor.’ (Ps 4:6) Similarly, the favor of a ruler is referred to as “the light of the king’s face.”​—Pr 16:15.

Light may denote brightness or cheerfulness, the opposite of gloom. (Job 30:26) This may explain the words of Job (29:24): “The light of my face they would not cast down.” Although others were gloomy and dejected, this did not cause Job to become of like disposition.

A bright prospect, such as salvation or deliverance, is at times referred to under the figure of light. (Es 8:16; Ps 97:11; Isa 30:26; Mic 7:8, 9) Jehovah’s causing his glory to shine forth upon Zion pointed forward to her deliverance from a captive state. As a result Zion was to become a source of enlightenment to the nations. (Isa 60:1-3, 19, 20; compare Re 21:24; 22:5.) On the other hand, for the sun, moon, and stars not to give their light would signify calamity.​—Isa 13:10, 11; Jer 4:23; Eze 32:7, 8; Mt 24:29.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I dont even know if im following you, but here we go.

What IS light?

Electromagnetic radiation. Massless elememtary bosonic particles.

Took about 10 seconds for the leptons to destroy themselves.

Then for 370,000 years the universe was dominated by photons. But there was no source of light as much it was all light. Constant high energy interactions kept it opaque.

Then the universe cooled enough for stable nuclei to form and the universe went dark. This was because the universe was cool and expanded enough for light to travel, but there were no light producing structure yet.

It took about 150 million more years for that. 

It took matter condensing via gravitational attraction into superheated masses that could undergo fusion. And how that works is 4 hydrogen nuclei are fused creating a helium nucleus of lower mass and the released energy are via photons which becomes the electromagnetic radiation emitted by stars.

44% of our own suns energy released falls into a very narrow band surrounding visible light.

Which is the most likely reason we are able to percieve it. Starting way back with algae and the first photosensitive cells we have evolved around or very near the same 7%, 44%, 49% split of the suns emitted energy.

I get panpsychism l, but i don't accept it. I dont think there is anything special about the act of observation in envoronment creation. Just perception. A gamma ray will still strip a planets atmosphere regardless if its observed by any life there.

Its a koan at most.

But I'll toss on this.

I think there is a principle of organic matter to acknowledge adversity. Cells divide to propagate and repair. Its like there is an inherent catalyst provided by its own frailty. An organizing principle to seek stability. Awareness of a single cell of its environment. Evolution being that dynamic played out.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Hello Raggedy man.

We have been advised not to hide our light under a bushel, so whosoever is the source of the inner light will not be hiding. All external sources of light will fade away but long before that happens our physical eyes will perish. So, tracing the inner light back to its source is the most promising adventure. If we fill our minds with too much knowledge about the destination we risk transforming the sacred into the mundane.

a reply to: HilterDayon

The light is a metaphor for the love of God in Jesus, don’t hide the gospel
As I understand

a reply to: whereislogic


I have in my head some 10,000 years that Vedas are old , I don't know where I got that information from.

I tried to find it this morning but without success, but now I have no peace until I find out what I mixed up with.

a reply to: Lora73

It could be that someone who wanted to promote the teachings and sayings in the Vedas who was doing something similar to what the apologists discussed in that article were doing, gave you that impression. It (marketing like that, or in another form) happens a lot in media entertainment and books about Hinduism and Eastern Mysticism (or New Age philosophy) sold by those who gain more income the more books they can sell, or the more traffic they can generate for their website if they have one to promote their views and various associated products.

When selling or marketing philosophical views (supposed enlightenment or insight), more attention equals more profits. The same counts for the entertainment industry when promoting such views, the aim is to 'tickle the ears' of the audience, intrigue them, show and tell them what they want to see and hear, please or cater to the audience or market.

That is also the goal of those who promote new age philosophy in order to make it appear more appealing to the market, using a marketing strategy that is geared towards appealing to women especially.

...

A Religion of Self

In her autobiographical film Out on a Limb, famous actress and New Age author Shirley MacLaine stands on a windswept beach with her arms outstretched and exclaims: “I am God! I am God!” Like her, many New Agers promote the search for a higher self and the idea of a god within. They teach that humans need only raise their consciousness to find their divinity.

Once this is accomplished, they claim, the reality of a universal interconnectedness becomes clear​—everything is god, and god is everything. This is by no means a new idea. Ancient religions of Mesopotamia and Egypt believed in the deity of animals, water, the wind, and the sky. More recently, Adolf Hitler allegedly encouraged others to embrace the “strong, heroic belief in God in Nature, God in our own people, in our destiny, in our blood.”

New Age culture is saturated with literature, seminars, and training programs dealing with self-​potential and self-​improvement. “Getting in touch with my inner self” is a popular logo. People are encouraged to try anything and everything that can help them unleash their own possibilities. As one writer put it in the magazine Wilson Quarterly, the “movement’s central teaching is ‘that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as it works for you.’”

Margot Adler, a New Age guru, explains that many of the women who join women’s New Age movements do it “for reasons that are very personal. . . . They hate their bodies, they hate themselves. They come into these groups which basically say to you, ‘You’re the Goddess, you’re wonderful.’”

...

Source: What Is the New Age Movement? (Awake!—1994)

The New Age movement is a loose mix of religious, cultural, social, political, and scientific ideologies, combined with fascination for Eastern mysticism, the paranormal, the occult, and even some strains of modern psychology. The mix includes belief in astrology, reincarnation, extraterrestrial life, evolution, and life after death. Environmental and health concerns are also important ingredients.

Do you notice any similarities with the beliefs of the ancient Babylonians that I shared in one of my earlier comments? Remember that in order for there to be reincarnation one must first believe that death is “a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556. I.e. life after death.

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)

a reply to: whereislogic

No, I think it was written in Secret Doktrine but I am not sure

Religions are made by men to control men.
God's wishes fit on a lollpop stick. It was his advice for how to adapt to being given individuality.

"Do unto others, as you would have done unto you."

Ergo, manage and eventually master individuality responsibly.

a reply to: Lora73
If that's the case, I was spot on with my response. The Secret Doctrine was written by Helena Blavatsky, someone who liked to sell books about and promote Eastern Mysticism, or Eastern Philosophy (which includes Hinduism and the Vedas; New Age gurus like to draw their material from those sources). She is described as such on daily.jstor.org:

Madame Helena Blavatsky was the 19th century's most famous and notorious occultist. She was also the godmother of the New Age movement. Helena Blavatsky was the late 19th century's most famous and notorious mystic, occultist, and medium.

The usual subjects. It's how she made a living for herself, tickling the ears of those who buy and read her books. Note the paragraph about Babylon the Great called "Practice of astrology, divination, magic, and sorcery:". Divination usually involves a psychic medium and the occult (supposed secret knowledge).

Divination embraces generally the whole scope of gaining secret knowledge, especially about future events, through the aid of spiritistic occult powers. (See SPIRITISM.) For consideration of specialized aspects of divination, see ASTROLOGERS; CONJURER; FORETELLER OF EVENTS; MAGIC AND SORCERY.

Practitioners of divination believe that superhuman gods reveal the future to those trained to read and interpret certain signs and omens, which, they say, are communicated in various ways: By celestial phenomena (the position and movement of stars and planets, eclipses, meteors), by terrestrial physical forces (wind, storms, fire), by behavior of creatures (howling of dogs, flight of birds, movement of snakes), by patterns of tea leaves in cups, by oil configurations on water, by the direction falling arrows take, by the appearance of body parts of sacrificed animals (liver, lungs, entrails), by the lines in the palm of the hand, by the casting of lots, and by the “spirits” of the dead [whereislogic: taking us back to the Babylonian belief that death is a passage to another kind of life, from where you get this idea that the soul or spirit is some invisible part of a human that survives the death of the physical body. Some just call it energy, or they talk about vibrational energy or vibrations.]

Certain fields of divination have been given specific names. For example, augury, popular with the Romans, is a study of omens, portents, or chance phenomena; palmistry predicts the future from lines on the inside of the hand; hepatoscopy inspects the liver; haruspication inspects entrails; belomancy with arrows; rhabdomancy uses the divining rod; oneiromancy is divination by dreams; necromancy is a purported inquiring of the dead. Crystal gazing and oracular divination are still other forms.

Origin. The birthplace of divination was Babylonia, the land of the Chaldeans, and from there these occult practices spread around the earth with the migration of mankind. (Ge 11:8, 9) Of the portion of Ashurbanipal’s library that has been unearthed, one fourth, it is said, contains omen tablets that purport to interpret all the peculiarities observed in the heavens and on earth, as well as all the incidental and accidental occurrences of everyday life. King Nebuchadnezzar’s decision to attack Jerusalem was made only after resorting to divination, concerning which it is written: “He has shaken the arrows. He has asked by means of the teraphim; he has looked into the liver. In his right hand the divination proved to be for Jerusalem.”​—Eze 21:21, 22.

Looking into the liver in quest of omens was based on the belief that all vitality, emotion, and affection were centered in this organ. One sixth of man’s blood is in the liver. The variations in its lobes, ducts, appendages, veins, ridges, and markings were interpreted as signs, or omens, from the gods. (See ASTROLOGERS) A large number of clay models of livers have been found, the oldest being from Babylon, containing omens and texts in cuneiform used by diviners. Ancient Assyrian priests were called baru, meaning “inspector” or “he who sees,” because of the prominent part liver inspecting played in their fortune-telling religion.

...

... God’s prophets in a sense of duty spoke freely without payment; the pagan diviners plied their trade for selfish personal gain. [whereislogic: As do the diviners, mediums, psychics and New Age gurus of today. Having books and related products for sale is a dead give-away.]

Source: Divination (Insight on the Scriptures)

a reply to: primalfractal

I got into a lot of heat for talking about Andy Weir's Egg Theory. Personally, I used it as a base of a hypothesis and expanded upon. But it wasn't my readers cup of soup.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: JimmyNeutr0n
"Light is particles called Protons, which are part of the electro-magnetic sphere that carry a specific amount of energy."

Don't you mean photons?

Sorry, yes. I hope I mentioned this was not reviewed before posting.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I dont even know if im following you, but here we go.

What IS light?

Electromagnetic radiation. Massless elememtary bosonic particles.

That's a sufficient answer for my first question. But scratch out all the scientific jargon because we're not attempting to define light per-say in this quest(ion), but our perception there-of. I was only attempting to be Socratic by asking a rudimentary question in an attempt to consider another more profound question. A question of "what life is in the context of what LIGHT is and how we perceive (see,hear,feel,taste,smell) through our "perceptions"".

Has anyone else ever heard of the Veil of Isis...?

Nearly twenty-five hundred years ago the Greek thinker Heraclitus supposedly uttered the cryptic words “Phusis kruptesthai philei.” How the aphorism, usually translated as “Nature loves to hide,” has haunted Western culture ever since is the subject of this engaging study by Pierre Hadot. Taking the allegorical figure of the veiled goddess Isis as a guide, and drawing on the work of both the ancients and later thinkers such as Goethe, Rilke, Wittgenstein, and Heidegger, Hadot traces successive interpretations of Heraclitus’ words. Over time, Hadot finds, “Nature loves to hide” has meant that all that lives tends to die; that Nature wraps herself in myths; and (for Heidegger) that Being unveils as it veils itself. Meanwhile the pronouncement has been used to explain everything from the opacity of the natural world to our modern angst.

The Veil of Isis - Pierre Hadot

The veil of Isis is a metaphor and allegorical artistic motif in which nature is personified as the goddess Isis covered by a veil or mantle, representing the inaccessibility of nature's secrets. It is often combined with a related motif, in which nature is portrayed as a goddess with multiple breasts who represents Isis, Artemis, or a combination of both.

Wiki Veil



Appreciate you all immensely.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Lora73
The New Age movement is a loose mix of religious, cultural, social, political, and scientific ideologies, combined with fascination for Eastern mysticism, the paranormal, the occult, and even some strains of modern psychology. The mix includes belief in astrology, reincarnation, extraterrestrial life, evolution, and life after death. Environmental and health concerns are also important ingredients.

Question about this point made.

I'm under the impression "New Age Movement" religions are essentially neo-pagan religions of past ancient religions.

Would I be wrong to assume that? What falls under "New Age Movement"? Wicca, occultism, humanism, ect

And wasn't Thelema and Aleister Crowley based on Egyptian religion?

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I'm under the impression "New Age Movement" religions are essentially neo-pagan religions of past ancient religions.

You are right about that, but "New Age Movement" is somehow gets only the worst out of everything and follows that principle.

originally posted by: JimmyNeutr0n
...

I'm under the impression "New Age Movement" religions are essentially neo-pagan religions of past ancient religions.

Would I be wrong to assume that?

Nope, that's another way to describe this mixture (i.e., you're not wrong, in case you misunderstood my "nope" as disagreement). Eastern mysticism after all is also paganism, and paganism often involves the paranormal and the occult.

What falls under "New Age Movement"? Wicca, occultism, humanism, ect

I would describe it as (the New Age Movement) "draws from" rather than "falls under", but I guess I would only make that disctinction because not all those involved with wicca, occultism or humanism, can be said to be part of the New Age Movement (and not all New Age gurus are involved with wicca for example, they pretty much are all involved with the occult cause that's a more general or broad term). The New Age Movement is a bit more specific in that sense.

And wasn't Thelema and Aleister Crowley based on Egyptian religion?

New Age philosophy is a mixture of ancient philosophies after all (at the bottem of his wikipage, there are external links to the "New Age movement" as well as "Thelema" and "Magic and witchcraft in Britain", so there's a lot of overlap and connections). And the Egyptians got their ideas from the same area the Eastern mysticists and Hindu Brahmin got their ideas from, namely Babylon as mentioned before.

Many resent being tagged with the “New Age” label simply because they believe in some of the concepts embraced by the New Age movement or enjoy some of the so-​called New Age art or music.

Devotees seldom identify themselves as New Agers. Actually, the expression “New Age” is used mostly by the media. These days, New Age books, shops, seminars, and programs often avoid the term. The Library Journal explains that “media overexposure in the late 1980s created a backlash about New Age’s more fringe elements (UFOs, channeling, crystals, etc.); this is reflected in the fact that major publishing houses . . . and even New Age presses are increasingly discarding the term New Age.” Thus, many people may be under the influence of New Age thought without even realizing it.

...

What Is New About It?

The New Age movement is considered by many to be a modern phenomenon. According to Professor Carl Raschke of the University of Denver, New Age thinking is essentially “an afterglow of the counterculture of the Sixties.” Other analysts also point to the 1960’s, with the hippies’ search for freedom and truth, as the beginning of the New Age movement. Many former hippies, now in their 40’s and 50’s, are still searching for that elusive truth. But their search is no longer dismissed as the capricious whim of teenagers. Many of them are professionals in reputable fields of knowledge, are politically active, and are now viewed as sensible community members.

During the 1970’s and 1980’s, they used their intellectual and financial resources to continue their search. The results? Their mixture of beliefs has received wide acceptance and respect. The media rapidly caught on, resulting in widespread awareness of New Age philosophy.

Actually, there is very little that is new about New Age beliefs. For example, its philosophy is based primarily on Eastern mysticism, which is thousands of years old. Consider just a few New Age ideas.

The New Age Hope

With the year 2000 just around the corner, the notion of a better future, a better millennium, is gaining popularity. A principal belief is that modern society as we know it will be replaced by a Utopian society.* [Utopia: “An ideally perfect place, esp[ecially] in its social, political, and moral aspects.”​—The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.] According to New Age teachers, this will be accomplished by radically changing conventional thinking through mystical knowledge that has been hidden or ignored until recent years. They say that this new era of harmony will unleash human potential and will usher in universal spiritual peace.

This hope seems to be based primarily on the predictions of astrologers who point to our day as the threshold between the passing age of Pisces and the coming age of Aquarius. Proponents of this theory claim that the zodiacal sign of Pisces has had a negative effect on mankind for almost 2,000 years. They point the finger at Christendom as the principal culprit in the creation of a materialistic and backward society. Christendom is accused of hindering the progress of truth. But today that truth can purportedly be found in the occult and will be made clear during the impending age of Aquarius, the age of spiritual enlightenment, the new age.

New Agers are divided on whether this new society will be brought forth by impersonal cosmic forces or by human effort. One theory claims that “a race of mutant New Age Homo sapiens, emerging from genetic seeds planted by enlightened ancients 3,500 years ago, will soon flourish and save the world from greed.”​—The Wall Street Journal, January 11, 1989.

Such a hope for a golden age, Utopia, or new world, however, is not new. The folklore of virtually every major culture includes the hope of a future Utopian society. Sumerian, Greek, Roman, and Scandinavian mythologies incorporated this belief. The Encyclopedia of Religion notes: “The yearning for a utopia where one is free from want and where peace and prosperity reign supreme has been very much an integral part of Chinese religion since pre-​Ch‘in times (before 221 BCE).” The most ancient sacred book, the Bible, speaks of a millennium when mankind will be brought to perfection, and war, crime, pain, and death will be eliminated.​—Revelation 21:1-4.

A Religion of Self

...

Sanitized Occultism

...

New Age and Health

...

New Age and Crystals

...

New Age and the Environment

...

“Another Drug in a Drug-​Ridden Society”?

“THE New Age movement​—the latest contribution to our long history of bizarre spiritual fads and panaceas—​invites a mixture of ridicule and indignant alarm. Not just the degradation of piety but its blatant commercialization prompts the suspicion of large-​scale religious fraud. . . .

“The New Age movement tries to combine meditation, positive thinking, faith healing, . . . mysticism, yoga, water cures, acupuncture, incense, astrology, Jungian psychology, biofeedback, extrasensory perception, spiritualism, . . . the theory of evolution, Reichian sex therapy, ancient mythologies, . . . hypnosis, and any number of other techniques designed to heighten awareness, including elements borrowed from the major religious traditions. . . .

“The New Age replacements for religion soothe the conscience instead of rubbing it the wrong way. Their central teaching is that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as it works for you. ‘It’s true if you believe it’: slogan of the New Age. . . .

“The question is not whether New Age therapies really work but whether religion ought to be reduced to therapy. If it offers nothing more than a spiritual high, religion becomes another drug in a drug-​ridden society.”​—“The New Age Movement: No Effort, No Truth, No Solutions, Notes on Gnosticism—​Part V,” by Christopher Lasch, Watson Professor of History at the University of Rochester, New York, U.S.A.

Source: What Is the New Age Movement? (Awake!—1994)

a reply to: whereislogic

"and are now viewed as sensible community members."

Had to give a laugh at that statement in the quoted text haha; "They may have crazy ideas...but they've managed to become civilized"

What would separate a person who studies theological studies across the spectrum from ancient to new, in a search for truth (or) answers, opposed to "new agers".

Perhaps simply a theologian I presume compared to a religious zealot...Simply studying something doesn't necessarily make a person an adherent. I definitely wouldn't die for Horus or Zeus...

Speaking of, its amazing the cross-overs between religions. If I'm not mistaken, Zeus was present in the Divine Comedy, as was Dionysus recognized in the bible.

Jimmy,

You've touched on something, relevant to "perspective", that I see as being amongst the biggest problems holding us back in this world

Exclusivity of belief

People who think it is OK, to have their belief, but who do not/will not leave any room for others to have their beliefs as well. Especially if those beliefs are different to their own

I have had Christians answering things I have written on here saying "But do you know that for fact? Or is that just what you believe?"

This is interesting to hear, because the argument they are using, is one of the founding principles taught within mysteries such as the Eleusinian, to subjectively question any and all belief systems

Which is;
The only thing that can ever be known for certain in this world, is that you exist
Everything else is up for debate
Personal belief, is not the same as knowing

(There is also an alternate version which states "The only certainty in this world, is death")

We refer to this as The primary truth. And it is literally the only thing within the mysteries that is ever spoken of as thruth. The ability to recognise self

Seeing Christians using a version of this founding statement to argue against non-Christian concepts blows my mind. Because they honestly don't see that they are arguing against their own belief

Or, they argue the statement is Solipsism, when it is actually the reverse of Solipsism. You don't see yourself as solitary, but as being the only reference point for understanding which can ever be known as being true

Truth outside this doesn't exist

Everything else is varying degrees of belief and understanding. Which is the purpose of the the teaching. Such things cannot, and never will be exclusive or inherent to certain or particular groups, or religions

They are innate. They cannot be given, or awarded

Such is creation. Such is "God", if such a thing is to exist and be believed

I'll try give you context,

In many initiation rites such as Eleusinian, particular people undergo a ritual test of will

In this test they have to give themselves willingly to die, for the greater good

They need to willingly give up "self"

Then they are killed

This is usually done by suffocation, drowning or poisoning

Then they are revived

And those that are successfully revived, come back different to when they left

It is said that if you undertake this process for the right reasons, you will live

If you do it for the wrong reasons, you will die

It is a test of not only will, but the purity of heart

It is not a process which can be cheated or faked. You either give yourself truly, or you die

The mysteries are 7 or more years of pure torture and pain, while you are "taught". Being realigned and torn across dimensions

I've been through these rites. I died, more than once

You no longer fear death
You no longer fear man
You no longer fear God

You no longer fear anything. Except yourself and your dangers

So, what is Jesus Christ to those who have been through such a process? If they died to prove they are not only willing to pay their own cost, but they are willing to give themselves to death for the greater good?

What is belief in such things?

If there is to be an exclusive acceptable belief in what God is in this world ...

Then who has the most right to define such things, for everyone else?

What if your personal belief offers nothing that someone hasn't already done for themselves, and is therefore powerless?

Does that person have more right to decide on what the only "true" God is, than anyone with your personal belief?

What if that person was being taught by the very same beings or entities that gave others the source of their personal beliefs, such as the Bible and all other correlating mythology?

But this person was willing to go through, what most others were not?

Do they supersede the older understanding? Having given more, to understand more?

Do they supersede the older writings? If they can see the problems in translation that others cannot see, from that they were taught?

Or would it be ridiculous to accept the beliefs of such individuals as the one defining "truth" in this world?

Regardless of them dying and everything else they went through in order to get this understanding and teach it to others?

a reply to: Compendium

Let me put forth a hypothesis maybe you can read into. All human minds, are collectively one (God), which could potentially explain phenomena between people. "Gut" feelings, insight, intuition, mass-praying, ect. And through us all, "we" are emanating "God".

If you look at the animals around us, something definitely separates us from nature, our sentience...I never say anything with surety but I will put forth the notions and questions for debate.

This isn't original to me either, I personally expanded (not much) on Andy Weir's Egg Theory, something I've brought up in the past and was ridiculed for

And the one question that makes me even bring up this topic, "What can exist OUTSIDE its creation?" The mind....

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n
Can you define what you mean by 'mind'?
And can you explain how it exists outside of creation please?