Chronicles of Ukrainian Nazism

a reply to: andy06shake
Well, my father fought in the Guards in WW2, a couple of his friends were murdered in a barn just outside Dunkirk by Nazis and he would be spitting feathers that these Nazis using Nazi tactics have been allow to resurge. And if your grandfather was alive he'd kick your ar## for you statement.
He would tell you he risked his life to rid the world of this evil ideology and with his fighting WITH the Russians to do the job. Now you're defending them because "Putin bad".

a reply to: RussianTroll

PM4U

originally posted by: starshift

And by the way, it won't be long now for those nato officers or mercenaries trapped with their Ukrainian Nazis brothers in the Azovstol plant in Mariupol. That's going to be a little hard to explain but I'm sure they are working on the narrative at this very moment.

I think the NATO officers are hiding out in the 30 US bio-weapons labs. No one will find them there.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: Grenade


We are ordinary people with our own opinion, we are not heads of state, not politicians.

Whenever some asks you a simple question about the brutal invasion of Ukraine, you refuse to answer and instead just go off on some government sanctioned rant about Nazis or whatever.

Well, everyone is being so kind to him I have no idea why he'd get snappy.

I think mostly everyone has been incredibly civil to RussianTroll... to the point of Ad nauseam, if you want my honest opinion.

The removed posts would seem to say otherwise, right from the start.

I’ve always liked the bloke and enjoyed reading his posts... but his now literally trying to justify the slaying of thousands of innocent civilians and the displacement of millions more... it’s now beyond a joke!

Yes and we know the stakes for what happens on ATS are huge in this war effort. The troops advance and retreat as minds are swayed on the Internet.

Ask yourself this, what if he's mostly right and the Ukraine government was indeed commiting atrocities on it's citizens? What then? Do you dare say that's not possible?

What if NATO is there and has been, violating their whole mantra about being a defensive organization for only member states? Wouldn't that seem to confirm what Putin said that NATO on the Russian border is indeed a threat?

There is very little to justify an invasion, but since I'm not the one making any decisions and there is no real source of reliable information I'll wait to hear more. If you think you're getting reliable enough information to decide right and wrong here, have at it.

I appreciate getting this propaganda because it helps me assess the other side of this. I managed to not take it personally when he was slightly annoying. Not sure why everybody is so anxious to chase away enemy Intel. It's almost like nobody cares about the truth or facts, merely sides that none of us are actually a part of. This isn't about him, or you, or me, and we have no real sway. This is elites using people as pawns. There is a much bigger game afoot here.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gothmog

And that makes you a military expert ?
Exactly what were you trying to prove ?

That I have done a lot of fighting and so I see things differently. RT wants to play the righteousness card here in suggesting over and over that Russia is saving the people of Ukraine from the Nazis. I don't see people parading in the streets cheering on the Russians in Ukraine do you? Russia has flexed their power, and so has America and other countries right back.

There really is no good guys here, never has been.....

Did you fight for Russia or Ukraine ?
No , the word is , the Russians are not saving the Ukrainians from Nazis , they are saving the Russians in the Ukraine from Nazis .
There are a LOT of Russians living in the Ukraine .
Hades , Russian people migrated there and BUILT Ukraine .

I refuse to say who is right , as I have only that history to go by .
And the same applies to you .
We don't know .

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think what people also forget is that Russians are the largest ethnic minority in Ukraine. Almost 20% of the country identify as Russian, this is the largest single Russian community in the world outside of Russia. In most of the Eastern regions Russians make up the majority of the population. But i'm sure those in the West know better about the traditions, needs, wants and history of these people.

a reply to: Grenade

In most of the Eastern regions Russians make up the majority of the population.

Err....no they don't.

The Donbas is the region within Ukraine with the largest percentage of Russians....around 40%.
The majority are Ukrainian.

a reply to: Freeborn

"Outside the Crimea, Russians are the largest ethnic group in [3] Donetsk (48.2%) and Makiyivka (50.8%) in Donetsk Oblast, Ternivka (52.9%) in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Krasnodon (63.3%) and Sverdlovsk (58.7%) and Krasnodonskyi raion (51.7%) and Stanychno-Luhanskyi (61.1%) raion in Luhansk Oblast, Reni (70.54%) and Izmail (43.7%) in Odessa oblast, Putyvl Raion (51.6%) in Sumy Oblast.[4]"

When you factor in the other ethnic minorities that's a fair proportion in Eastern Ukraine.

Considering the vast majority of people on this forum don't even understand Russian or Ukrainian, our information is second hand and translated before the editors of truth even get the chance to spin it.

The vast majority of Ukrainians have more in common with Russians than they do with the USA and its vassal states in Europe.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: RussianTroll

Ugh... this is the second time i've heard this...

a Person at work from the area told me the Ukrainians have staged a lot of what is seen on our news stations... and the bomb that took out that train station came from within Ukraine...

I don't know what to believe anymore... i hate it all

I got a fairly simple view of it all.
Russia invaded a nation, and doesn't seem to have a coherent explanation as to why.
Therefore, Russia is the problem here. Yeah, truth is lost on both sides and propaganda is high, but end of the day, there are invaders, and the invaded.

Russia doesn't seem to have a withdrawl plan. They should simply get out. Pretty simple.

Surely it doesn't have to do with the massive natural gas deposits that were recently found under Ukrainian soil that could threaten their bottom line...surely not.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: RussianTroll

Ugh... this is the second time i've heard this...

a Person at work from the area told me the Ukrainians have staged a lot of what is seen on our news stations... and the bomb that took out that train station came from within Ukraine...

I don't know what to believe anymore... i hate it all

Russia invaded a nation, and doesn't seem to have a coherent explanation as to why.

Seriously... Putin’s claims of nazis and drug addicts seems more like the rants of a seriously mentally Ill individual, rather than a coherent explanation to justify the murder and displacement of millions of innocent people.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gothmog

And that makes you a military expert ?
Exactly what were you trying to prove ?

That I have done a lot of fighting and so I see things differently. RT wants to play the righteousness card here in suggesting over and over that Russia is saving the people of Ukraine from the Nazis. I don't see people parading in the streets cheering on the Russians in Ukraine do you? Russia has flexed their power, and so has America and other countries right back.

There really is no good guys here, never has been.....

Over 4 million Ukraines in the east were sure happy to see the Russian forces and they are hoping that the Ukrainian government won't be bombarding them with rockets as missiles anymore.

Another 2.5 million in Crimea were happy to see the Russian army and they are even happier now that they have fresh water flowing back in the Peninsula after the Ukrainian government denied them of water forb8 years, killed their crops and ruined all the farm land.

There are countless more Ukrainians happy to see the Russians they are just to scared to publicly show their appreciation.

Just because the American media pushes their agenda that nobody in Ukraine was happy to see the Russians, that's far from the truth. Do you notice all the American media only reports in the west? Where the views are anti Russian? You will never see the American media in the east talking to the people, you will never see them in Crimea anymore either, only in the west in the anti Russian areas.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Your delusional

time.com...

Ukrainian authorities and Western officials have repeatedly accused Russian forces of atrocities in the war that began with a Feb. 24 invasion. More than 4 million Ukrainians have fled the country, and millions more have been displaced. Some of the grisliest evidence has been found in towns around Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv, from which Russian President Vladimir Putin’s troops pulled back in recent days.

Why was there a train station full of people…….

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Soo….

At the great cost to Russia military. Dead civilians laying in the streets and mass graves. Cities destroyed. What has Putin achieved for Russia? How many Ukrainian Nazis brought to trail?

a reply to: crayzeed

Putin is bad nevermind bat crap crazy and I'm not defending Nazis.

I dont support Nazis ether crayzeed, i do support Ukraine in there noble endeavour aka defence of their nation against a foreign invasion.

I simply recognise that Nazis exist amongst the ranks of both countries and obviously need to be stamped out.

However using the pretence of Ukraine being full of Nazis to invade when Russia itself experiences similar dilemmas with the Nazi scum is completely wrong.

And i imagine your grandfather would tell you the same or be fighting to rid the Ukraine of Russian invaders along side them.

Might wish to read the entirety of the thread before judging people or coming to childish conclusions, that way you get the entire lay of the land as opposed to the alternative.

Do you support Putin's invasion of Ukraine down to his claims of Nazism?

At least ile give you the benefit of the doubt before judging where your allegiances lie.

Could Insurgency Offer Ukraine a Decisive Edge?

Ukraine's post–World War II resistance was led by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, a far-right group that had collaborated with the Germans and survived long enough to also receive support from the CIA. It is memories of this insurgency, which the CIA credited with having killed 35,000 Soviet soldiers, police, and Communist Party officials, that Putin is trying to revive when he labels the current Ukrainian leadership as Nazis.

www.rand.org...

originally posted by: Gothmog
Did you fight for Russia or Ukraine ?
No , the word is , the Russians are not saving the Ukrainians from Nazis , they are saving the Russians in the Ukraine from Nazis .
There are a LOT of Russians living in the Ukraine .
Hades , Russian people migrated there and BUILT Ukraine .

I refuse to say who is right , as I have only that history to go by .
And the same applies to you .
We don't know .

So he is subjecting 40 million people that are not Russian to the hard hand of Russian rule and getting a direct line to EU with his energy and gaining all the natural resources too. That there is a big Win Win...

If it was about saving Russians from Nazis he would have stopped in the east where the vast majority of them live, about 90%. If he cared about them he would not have paid Alt Right Russian Nationalist as mercs to fight his dirty proxy war these last 6+ years that has seen untold amount of suffering on his hands too in it all. If he cared about the Russians he would not be blowing up their towns that have a lot of Russians in them, I could go on and on. Much of what we call Nazis rose up after 2014 as a direct response to Putin's proxy war. So did Putin create this mess and now is it savior?

a reply to: Grenade

According to the 2001 census, the Donetsk Oblast is inhabited by members of more than 130 ethnic groups.[53] The Ukrainian ethnicity is 56.9% of the population (2,744,100 people); the Russian ethnicity is 38.2% of the population (1,844,400 people).[

en.wikipedia.org...

The population is largely Russian-speaking, although ethnic Ukrainians constitute a majority (58.0%). Among the minorities are native Russians (39.1%), Belarusians (0.8%), and others (1.4%).

en.wikipedia.org...

The figures you gave are for individual population centres within the contested region of Donbas.

Residents of Russian origin are mainly concentrated in the larger urban centers.

Russia claims the whole region, not just 'the larger urban centres'.

I've never denied that Russians are a very large minority in Ukraine, especially as you say in the eastern part of the country,
But that still does not justify the invasion and all the killing.

originally posted by: turretless

Ukraine's post–World War II resistance was led by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, a far-right group that had collaborated with the Germans and survived long enough to also receive support from the CIA. It is memories of this insurgency, which the CIA credited with having killed 35,000 Soviet soldiers, police, and Communist Party officials, that Putin is trying to revive when he labels the current Ukrainian leadership as Nazis.

www.rand.org...

Post WW2...lol OK

Russia starved and killed 30% of the population there in the 30s, After WW2 they wiped out another 15% and put 100,000s in concertation camps as what the USSR typically did to subjugate the population in their satellite countries. Add on Crimea, his 8 year proxy war and now this. Can you tell me who are the bad guys here? Can you tell me why would Nazism even rise in that country?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Post WW2...lol OK

Russia starved and killed 30% of the population there in the 30s, After WW2 they wiped out another 15% and put 100,000s in concertation camps as what the USSR typically did to subjugate the population in their satellite countries. Add on Crimea, his 8 year proxy war and now this. Can you tell me who are the bad guys here? Can you tell me why would Nazism even rise in that country?

Open topics on these issues and present the documents on which the figures you submit are based, and then everything will become clear.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

Over 4 million Ukraines in the east were sure happy to see the Russian forces and they are hoping that the Ukrainian government won't be bombarding them with rockets as missiles anymore.

I would not be so sure. He is blowing up their towns too. There was an interview with a Russian lady that was like 80+ years old. She doesn't understand what Russia is doing, her words.. They are acting like Nazis of WW2 except now I can understand what they are saying. That 4 million is like 90% of the Russian population in the country, so why not just stop there if that was his goal. He has used a ruthless group of Mercs that are also alt right nationalist in his proxy war and they are far from having clean hands in any of this.

Another 2.5 million in Crimea were happy to see the Russian army and they are even happier now that they have fresh water flowing back in the Peninsula after the Ukrainian government denied them of water forb8 years, killed their crops and ruined all the farm land.

What about the other 40% of the country there? Once again everyone in Crimea had zero choice one way or the other. Russia was pretty brutal there too.

There are countless more Ukrainians happy to see the Russians they are just to scared to publicly show their appreciation.

Ya whatever... They are happy as Russia keeps wiping out chunks of their population time and time again. Just look at history...