The Minutemen: an idea long overdue

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by shots
Waiting for marge to furnish info she claimed she read

[edit on 4/2/2005 by shots]

No problem it was part of want of the links provided but you needed to click on the source of the information.

Here is the direct link of the site.

www.searclub.com...

By now you should know that I will provide my sources

Militia leader Casey Nethercott believes the border needs to be controlled; but he's against the upcoming Minuteman Project.

Big deal Nethercott is a militia leader and he disagrees with the Minuteman project who want to do it the right way. If there is a problem here it is with Nethercott not the Minuteman to bad you cannot see that.


Wake up and smell the roses marg the problem is not with the Minuteman, they want to do it peacefull, your posting evidence that a milita group disagrees with them proves my point. Nethercott has been arrested, can you say the same for the minuteman?

Shots I agree the borders need to be patrol but people are joining the minuteman and the co-organizers are on another agenda.

Yes is politically motivated and the leaders are not what they seem to be,

I posted the facts I let you now weight the evidence it may seem like a good idea but trust me is bound to be an incident.

Originally posted by marg6043
Shots I agree the borders need to be patrol but people are joining the minuteman and the co-organizers are on another agenda.

Yes is politically motivated and the leaders are not what they seem to be,

I posted the facts I let you now weight the evidence it may seem like a good idea but trust me is bound to be an incident.

Um I would use very large print however I have no desire to get TOSD.

You just refuse to get it. The people you mentioned are not co-organizers They have nothing to do with the Minuteman project at all. Why can't you understand that?

Here let me put it in the very simplist of terms.

If they were a member they would not oppose them would they?

No of course they wouldn't; because they would be on the same side.

The example you just gave are from a group/individual that oppose the minuteman project, why is that so hard for you to understand

I gave you the main name of the founder Chris Simcox he is a wacko, and he has been in jail.

He was on the news today talking about his group and what they are up to.

That is the fact.

Originally posted by marg6043
I gave you the main name of the founder Chris Simcox he is a wacko, and he has been in jail.

Nethercott has also been in jail a fact you clearly avoided. Why?

That is also a fact.....

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by marg6043
I gave you the main name of the founder Chris Simcox he is a wacko, and he has been in jail.

Nethercott has also been in jail a fact you clearly avoided. Why?

That is also a fact.....

I didn't avoid it Nethercott is in the links and he is the leader of the ranch rescue militia he and the leaders of the minuteman Simcox and Gilchrist have been calling each other neo-nazis and white supremacies friends.

They are having a power struggle for the rights to control the border, see is something that you missed entirely, this two groups are enemies and both groups are in Arizona like gunmen recruiting people for their groups.

Nethercott has a ranch in the border and he is warning the minutemen group that he will retaliate with his militiamen if they get in their lands.

Meanwhile the FBI has identify the two groups as hate groups and they will be monitored.

See shots is more complicated that you think.

I hope you are not planning to be a member, shots.

Originally posted by marg6043

Meanwhile the FBI has identify the two groups as hate groups and they will be monitored.

See shots is more complicated that you think.

I hope you are not planning to be a member, shots.

No you are just trying to make it look complicated. Also they have not identified two hate groups there is only one that is the Ranch Rescue the Minuteman have not been charged with any felony that I could find. Simcox and his co-founder both have only one arrest which was a misdemeanor.

Ok now lets look at this fine upstanding citizen you claim Nethercott is.

April 03, 2003
Hank Conner, 62, of Lafayette, La, and Casey Nethercott, 35, of La Mirada Calif., were arrested on March 19 by the Jim Hogg County Sheriff and a Texas Ranger. The volunteers were charged with assaulting an unnamed El Salvadoran national who they encountered on the property and escorted out to a public road.
www.vdare.com...


Related story


The most recent was a shoot out last week involving the FBI and Ranch Rescue in Douglas, Arizona. In the incident, the FBI shot Ranch Rescue vigilante Kalen Riddle, 22, near his anus and the bullet may have travel to vital organs in the lower abdomen. He is presently in a Tucson hospital in uncertain condition. Also arrested in the shoot out was the twice felon Casey Nethercott, age 37. Nethercott had been previously arrested for pistol-whipping two immigrants in Texas. The group has ties to American Border Patrol and is suspected in a series of "snipings" with high power hunting rifles of Mexican migrant workers that cross the Mexico/US border.

aztlan.net...

DOUGLAS, Ariz. -- Casey Nethercott, a defendant in the Center's lawsuit against the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, was arrested here on September 15 by FBI agents in connection with a tense confrontation with Border Patrol agents at his nearby ranch. He is charged with assaulting a federal officer during an incident that happened there on August 31.

www.splcenter.org...

HEBBRONVILLE, Texas - A member of a patrol group that says it protects property along the Mexican border recalled for jurors yesterday how Casey Nethercott showed off his weaponry and attack dog shortly before he allegedly assaulted two illegal immigrants.

Nethercott, 37, who owns a ranch in Douglas, Ariz., faces felony charges of assault and unlawful possession of a weapon in the March 18, 2003, attack. He has pleaded not guilty to both counts.

Nethercott was arrested in Arizona Nov. 25 by FBI agents and Douglas police officers. Ranch Rescue started operating in Arizona last year.

Yesterday, Jeremy Dombroski testified in Nethercott's trial that Nethercott "was showing off what he said was armor-piercing ammunition."

www.latinamericanstudies.org...

As if the above is not bad enough the man also has violated local zoning laws

www.tucsoncitizen.com...

Now lets look at some of his associates

On its Web site, the "Arizona Guard" proclaims to be "an Organized Militia dedicated to the defense of American Patriotism and to help local ranchers and citizens defend property from illegal alien activity and drug running operations." It asks for volunteers to carry firearms on missions.

"These recent developments validate our warnings that extreme anti-immigrant groups, such as Ranch Rescue, have historically attracted white supremacist and other extremist support," said Bill Straus, ADL Arizona Regional Director. "That, in turn, poses a threat to people living and traveling along our border, including law enforcement. It is a hate-filled and hate-fueled environment. And who better to spread the message of hate than neo-Nazis and white supremacists?"

The recruiting effort is being led by Kalen Riddle, a self-proclaimed Nazi and white supremacist. On his Web site, Riddle, pictured toting a rifle and dressed in a Nazi uniform complete with swastika armbands, claims that two of his favorite things are "ethnic cleansing and weapon making." Riddle's occupation is listed as "National Socialist." In addition Riddle requests that "any WN [White Nationalist] volunteer is asked to keep WP [White Power] or Third Reich imagry (sic) to a minimum and not to talk to any press."

Aiding Riddle is convicted felon Casey Nethercott. Nethercott was arrested in Arizona in March 2004 on a warrant from Texas.

www.adl.org...

Then we have disinformation posted by what appears to be a person of immigrant origin regarding the association between Simcox and Nethercott (Ranch Rescue) posted here. Kindly note the author has them listed as having close ties which we know is in fact false information.

In addition, Glenn Spencer, Chris Simcox and Roger Barnett have very close ties to Ranch
Rescue, another vigilante group.

forums.terra.com...

And finally yet importantly we have the story regarding Simcox’s one and only arrest I could find, which is suspect as you can see since the individual who did the arresting was in fact Hispanic. The arrest was a misdemeanor by the way unlike your ourstanding example who has several felony charges.

Describing the arrest of Chris Simcox by Park Service Officer, on Saturday, January 26.
Simcox was arrested just inside the fence line of the Coronado National Monument. Harvey was with Simcox, but did not cross the fence into Monument grounds. Harvey is a former law enforcement officer.
SPENCER: You're telling me that after Chris was apprehended, this Border Patrol Agent, said I'm Hispanic and I don't like what you're doing.... I mean this National Park Service Officer, excuse me.

HARVEY: She said: "I'm Hispanic and I don't like what you're doing." Now before that, Chris had made it very clear that he was Chris Simcox of the Civil Homeland Defense. He said that very pointedly, and there was not any doubt that he had identified himself correctly. But when they got in, they were transmitting the message for backup, they transmitted that two suspects were apprehended and that they were suspected of being members of American Border Patrol. They transmitted that two or three times over the radio.

SPENCER: Now this is an important piece of data. And I have to admit, on camera, that I was a little suspicious of Chris when he said they arrested me because they thought I was with you. But what you're saying is that they were out gunning for us, not him.

HARVEY: Well, the implication is that way because he explained it very clearly that he was Civil Homeland Defense and what their mission was, they were answering the president's call for volunteerism and they were going to walk along the border and if they saw any illegal entrances, they would call the Border Patrol. That's when she said the statement that she was Hispanic and she didn't like what he was doing. Now the clarity of how they defined who they were, and then for them to confuse it or misstate it in the radio traffic between the agency -- and I heard it either two or three times -- I don't recall precisely what the number was very clear that they thought they had American Border Patrol.


www.americanpatrol.com...

Now if given a choice between which of the two groups appear to be the most factual I will take the Minuteman.

As far as being a member Take alook at my avatar I think that says it all

Thanks for that informative post, I will be going over to read the links, now remember the minutemen may be willing to do a nice deed to control the border but not all of them are the nice citizens that we want to see.

Only taking in consideration that so far the border civilian patrols have been link to supremacy groups leave a lot to be desire.

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks for that informative post, I will be going over to read the links, now remember the minutemen may be willing to do a nice deed to control the border but not all of them are the nice citizens that we want to see.

Only taking in consideration that so far the border civilian patrols have been link to supremacy groups leave a lot to be desire.

No not totally correct Marge. Yes we have allegations but no actual proof when it comes to the minuteman. Now as for the Rescue Ranch that is a whole new ball park, the FEDs are keeping a very close on on those guys as I have proven.

Unfortunately we are still living in a world where borders are necessary. I can only hope that the minuteman project will respect the law and the participants will not use disproportianate violence.

Mark my words though, humankind can only know peace when arbitrary drawn lines (called "borders") are abolished. That situation is not an unreachable utopia (see for example the EU where archenemies abolished their borders) and may one day well be implemented throughout the world. Also I have never perceived "heaven" as a place where people have to be confined within borders and have separate places near "the throne of God".

Blobber

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Blobber]

Um, the European Union has not done away with European borders. And I don't see why they ever would.

Originally posted by Boatphone
Um, the European Union has not done away with European borders. And I don't see why they ever would.

Most of the EU members have abandoned the internal borders and there is only the outer borders (borders between EU and non EU countries). You can move freely between EU countries.
www.auswaertiges-amt.de...

It is in the EU's principle that there is a free movement of labour, this means that EU citizens can also work, live wherever they want within the EU. Currently as EU citizen it's no problem to get working permits in other EU countries (not applicable for some EU members), and in some others you don't need a working permit (not applicable for some EU members).

This was all uninmaginable 80 years ago, that for example a French man could travel freely to and live in Germany.

Blobber




[edit on 3-4-2005 by Blobber]

Originally posted by Blobber
Unfortunately we are still living in a world where borders are necessary. I can only hope that the minuteman project will respect the law and the participants will not use disproportianate violence.

Mark my words though, humankind can only know peace when arbitrary drawn lines (called "borders") are abolished. That situation is not an unreachable utopia (see for example the EU where archenemies abolished their borders) and may one day well be implemented throughout the world. Also I have never perceived "heaven" as a place where people have to be confined within borders and have separate places near "the throne of God".

Blobber

[edit on 3-4-2005 by Blobber]

Good Fences make Good Neighbors... Robert Frost was indeed a wise man. Fences, as well as Borders are more than just blockades or boundaries, they stand for mutual respect between people, as well as nations. If people want to come into this country to work that's fine, but do so legally.
As far as the social phenomena surrounding the Minute Men, a point is being made:We need better protection.

The EU might have dissolved economical borders, but the union is still made up of sovereign nations. I don't see that changing.

Originally posted by nightbreid
...
The EU might have dissolved economical borders, but the union is still made up of sovereign nations. I don't see that changing.

So you imply immigrants corrodes sovereignty? The fact that for example a Belgium can move freely to Germany and work there destroys the sovereignty of Germany?

Don't get me wrong, I understand why some Americans feel the urge for the minuteman project. It would be foolish anyway to abolish the borders between Mexico and the USA in the present day,

But, I believe when Mexico's economy is more or less in the same state of the US (someday) that these borders will be abolished.

Blobber



[edit on 3-4-2005 by Blobber]

The reason Bush is calling them vigilantes is because they make him and his administration look bad.......they are doing the job... for free.... Bush should have done.....but instead he's too busy meddling in foreign affairs.......I think not a few people are sick and tired of him not taking care of the US and it's citizens.....

I do not think you will see any violence when it comes to the Minuteman they have made their SOP and it is to be strictly enforced by anyone taking part. In other words members are told to report other members who are out of line immeidately and at tha time they ofendeding member is/will be expelled.

Originally posted by Blobber

Originally posted by nightbreid
...
The EU might have dissolved economical borders, but the union is still made up of sovereign nations. I don't see that changing.

So you imply immigrants corrodes sovereignty? The fact that for example a Belgium can move freely to Germany and work there destroys the sovereignty of Germany?

Don't get me wrong, I understand why some Americans feel the urge for the minuteman project. It would be foolish anyway to abolish the borders between Mexico and the USA in the present day,

But, I believe when Mexico's economy is more or less in the same state of the US (someday) that these borders will be abolished.

Blobber



[edit on 3-4-2005 by Blobber]

Immigration--Legal Immigration--doesn't violate a nation's sovereignity. Infiltration by illegal means does. It over-taxes government and stirs law-abiding citizens to take action where action is needed.
Isolationism is not what made the U.S. a desirable nation, in fact the sucess behind the U.S. is the conglomeration of all people of the world. But that's not what this thread is about.
An artificial sense of security is beginning to settle over the U.S., even though we are still under attack. How long before Jihadists grow frustrated with the war in Iraq and decide soft targets in the U.S. are just as good as the horror incurred in 2002? Waves upon waves of people enter this country illegally with a good intention- to make an honest buck. How long before a couple zealots slip in with nothing better to do than blow up a mall? The Minutemen realize this and are only there to lend a hand. If Bush's Administration could see this, and somehow organize this group(and, I'm sure, the groups to follow) into a voluntary branch of Border Protection this will work.

Minuteman Project Border Volunteers Report First Group of Illegal Immigrants

Volunteers for an effort to patrol the Mexican border reported their first sighting of suspected illegal immigrants, resulting in 18 arrests, authorities said Sunday.

Participants in the Minuteman Project spotted the migrants Saturday near Naco as the volunteers were surveying the border to familiarize themselves with area. When agents arrived, they apprehended 18 people, Border Patrol spokesman Andy Adame said.

"You observe them, report them and get out of the way," said Mike McGarry, a spokesman for the project, which begins Monday and is to continue for a month.

The volunteers reported another illegal immigrant after he wandered onto the campus of a Bible college near the community of Palominas, where about 100 Minuteman participants were staying.

Thanks for the update makeitso. I am supposed to be on the mailing list wonder why I did not get my report?

Think how much BETTER this bunch would do if they would actually address the REAL problem of illegal immigration and go back to their own hometowns, hunt out the business owners who are hiring illegals, and sic the INS on those businesses.

After the word got out about the prosecutions and fines, there would be no more jobs for anyone who showed up without proof of citizenship or proof of Green Card. And there'd be fewer people trying to get to the jobs.

But it's more glamorous to ride around being Ersatz Border Patrol, I suppose. You get to go to exotic places and look menacing at timid people.

I suppose that bolsters a sense of manliness more than phoning into the INS saying "you know, there's a bunch of people who are possibly illegals working on the janitorial staff at Yadda Corp. Have you guys checked their files?" Posing proudly with your cell phone beside a poster saying "Hire Legal Citizens!" isn't as glamorous as dressing up in cammos and looking pseudo-military and chasing all over the landscape looking for illegals.

Stopping the employers is a cheaper solution, too, and kills the root of the problem.

But... I suppose it ain't Manly enough, even if you dress up in cammos to phone in your tip.