The Minutemen: an idea long overdue

Finally this group of selfless individuals are getting some nationwide face time. Though labeled "vigilantes" this group of volunteers is sending a stern warning to those who wish to infiltrate the Texas-Mexican border: WE are watching.
And that is all they do.
Observe and report directly to the Border Patrol. I thought it was everyone's duty to protect the homeland? Finally, somebody does and they are chastised and discredited not only by the Liberal media, but by W himself. Our borders are porous--both North and South, the border patrol is overworked, hopefully this brand of community service will catch on elsewhere.

There's lots of paramilitary militias in the US tho. And lots of other less organized vigilante groups, like the KKK, black panthers, posse comititatus and such. This one is poorly armed, small, and is obsessed with the borders. Not terribly groundbreaking no?

Why must people slide into the darkest form of stigma-attaching when common citizens organize for the common good. The groups you speak of were anti-social with a very negative, if not lethal, mandate. Apples and oranges my friend.

I think the minute man idea is a good idea but it's doom to fail, the gov. is against it, the media is against, there are bound to be a good number bad apples who are going to become the poster child of this endevour and give everyone else involved a bad name. By bad apples I mean white supremisist other such paramility types. It has been mention on another thread that MS13 have posted a bounty on these guys and they are only allowed to be armed with handguns.

These guys may end up hurting or killing somebody even if it's in self defense you can only imagine the way this is going to play out in the media. lIke I said before it's a good idea but it's bound to fail
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Originally posted by nightbreid
Finally this group of selfless individuals are getting some nationwide face time. Though labeled "vigilantes" this group of volunteers is sending a stern warning to those who wish to infiltrate the Texas-Mexican border: WE are watching.

And here's a note from Texas: We don't particularly want YOU coming here, dictating solutions and running around playing cowboy.

And that is all they do.
Observe and report directly to the Border Patrol.

Oh good. So they can join the rest of us who report illegals as well. Now... we've got thousands of Texans who do this already. Pray tell what another 20 or 30 people are going to do to that reporting?

Particularly people who don't know a thing about Texas or the landscape or the culture or the people. And how would THESE people, who don't live here, know a legitimate field hand from an illegal?

Do you think that illegals wander around wearing big green signs on their foreheads?

They'll run around and report everything that twitches as an illegal, and they will ADD WORK for the Border Partol. The Border Patrol has to check out EVERY report.

I thought it was everyone's duty to protect the homeland? Finally, somebody does and they are chastised and discredited not only by the Liberal media, but by W himself. Our borders are porous--both North and South, the border patrol is overworked, hopefully this brand of community service will catch on elsewhere.

Dubbayah, who is a prize idiot in my opinion, is a Texan. He's well aware of our situation here. And having a bunch of clueless people from out of state trying to "police" the boarder, not knowing how these people travel and how they hide and what their patterns are) is NO solution.

And getting a bunch of hysterical "milita" people out here reporting everything that moves and has dark hair is NOT a solution.

If those guys want to solve the problem, they can go home, find out what jobs the illegal immigrants are taking (that would be janitorial jobs, hotel jobs, lawn service jobs, trash hauling jobs, construction jobs) and they would start an aggressive program in their OWN area to get Americans filling those jobs and make sure there's no reason for them to try and come to America.

Bravo!!!!!! Byrd well said, I live in the south and I will testify that without illegal migrant workers the farming industry around here will not survive.

Perhap the vigilantes shoud take over the jobs of these people and see why they are needed, because no American wants to get their hands dirty.

As of this posting, there has only been rhetoric from the White House, which is a good thing. Maybe they see this civilian patrol as a creative form of Homeland Security that does serve a purpose. I haven't heard a peep from the Border Patrol bureaucracy, which is another good thing. As long as there is some form of lawful constraint, and all intentions and activities remain observational. I think it will work. The only thing that worries me is the amount of people streaming in from other states willing to fill the ranks. This in itself will over-tax whatever organization is presently in place.

Do you know how long this will last? I'm guessing at most, five months. That is a very gracious guess from my viewpoint. Ya know why? Because these are normal people, they probably have jobs and families to attend to. What good is this going to do? Like Byrd said, absolutely none. If they want to have a very direct effect, why don't they move their family down to Texas and join the Border Guard? Hm? *coughmaybe because they are just doing it for attentioncough* Or atleast try and recruit other people to join the border guard.

We don't live in times where state militias are needed. Neither is this. We have the Border Patrol, Coast Guard, and the ISN to deal with this problem. Untrained people numbering a handful are not going to produce a helpful effect.

Originally posted by nightbreid
As of this posting, there has only been rhetoric from the White House, which is a good thing. Maybe they see this civilian patrol as a creative form of Homeland Security that does serve a purpose.

No, they don't.

I haven't heard a peep from the Border Patrol bureaucracy, which is another good thing.

Allow me to enlighten you, then. The Border Patrol in all states has had this response since 2003 and before:
www.americanpatrol.com...

How about the Arizona Border Patrol denouncing the effort:
kvoa.com...

As long as there is some form of lawful constraint, and all intentions and activities remain observational. I think it will work.

Really? Quick... in a population where 75% have some Hispanic ancestry, how do you tell the legals from the illegals?

The only thing that worries me is the amount of people streaming in from other states willing to fill the ranks. This in itself will over-tax whatever organization is presently in place.

Right. Rather than stay home and take the jobs away (the illegals aren't coming to the border and hanging out there... they're headed north for jobs), they'd rather come down here and play Tourist With Gunz.

Shooting at things and playing cowboy is more "manly" than actually staying home and reporting businesses in their home towns that use illegal immigrants and then starting job programs to help disadvantaged kids get THESE jobs.

They really don't want to help. They just want to make themselves feel better by playing cowboy. If they wanted to help, they'd get rid of the illegals in their own towns.

Originally posted by Kompaktor
Do you know how long this will last? I'm guessing at most, five months.

It's been in the low profile media for at least two monthes, and is still gaining momentum.

Originally posted by Kompaktor
We don't live in times where state militias are needed. Neither is this. We have the Border Patrol, Coast Guard, and the ISN to deal with this problem. Untrained people numbering a handful are not going to produce a helpful effect.

How do you know these people aren't ex-military? law enforcement? Not too long ago, if I remember correctly, a statement was made(maybe Tom Ridge?) proclaiming that Homeland Defense was every citizen's responsibility. If we see something not right(illegal entry) we are to report it to the proper authorities. Action is being taken now along those guidelines, but now it is wrong?
500,000 people gain entry into the U.S. illegally via the Mexican border/year. Out of those half-million, at least ten-percent aren't from the Americas and hundreds of these infiltrators are from the Middle East.
Border Patrol, Coast Guard, and the ISN do deal with this problem, but the problem remains. Civilian Patrols were commonplace during both World Wars, our Nation's leaders at the time recognized vigilance as a deterrent to threat on the home front, why should today be any different? Coming From Massachusetts, I understand the connotation behind "The Minutemen" and nothing has changed... a threat then is the same as a threat now.

Well I for one applaud them and like someone said finally someone has the B to do something bout the crazy border policies of the this government and this country.
How can we ignore 1 million illegals coming into this country and doing all kids of things. Although I agree with Bush on many issues this one he has absolutely messed up.
He should have the guts to sigh an executive order and sent eh National Guard to the border ,and that will be the end of illegals sneaking in with huge numbers.
To me its absurd that Vicente Fox comes up here and says uhh... can you guys make it easier for Mexicans to sneak into the U.S. as if it wasn't easy enough already what do he want us to do play trumpets ad roll our welcome mats to them. Its harder to try and get into chuck-e-cheese then to get into this country, damn shame if you ask me.

The problem with the migrant workers is that here in the south as long as they are working in the farming business they are protected.

I used to work for a lawyer that specialized on migrant worker law and this people illegal or not are protected at least here in GA.

For the reason I said above not body wants to work in the heat around here in the fields, but they do.

I have seen an increased of the migrant population, and I move from the lawyers office to become a one on one tutor for the county, because these people comes with their families and most of them have not education at all.

I had worked with children that at age 10 has never been in school so the federal government gave grants to the state to educate the children and the families.

Now because of the cuts by the present administration I was moved from tutor to Spanish children to be a Spanish teacher.

So the grants were not longer available to help these people.

But their numbers are growing and now they are everywhere.

Reuters.

You might want to try searching for some news first. Front page of U.S. news from Reuters. It is a protest, they aren't ex-military or law enforcment, just people getting in the way. And it is going to last a month. Just one, not two, or three, one.

Could you get that quote from a source instead of just pulling it off out of your arse? I believe you, but it would be nice to make sure it was the truth. Thanks.

(Edited to fix link)

[edit on 1-4-2005 by asala]

Immigration as you all know takes away jobs. Jobs you probably don't want, but there are actually people out there that would take them If they could.

This leads to higher unemployment.

Higher unemployment leads to lower wages. The reason being, if more people are desperately needing a job, companies will take advantage and hire them at lower wages, usually through temp services with no benefits.

And that is great for companies because they have larger pools of potential workers to choose from that are a lot more qualified. You have people with degrees working as waiters and other non-degree requiring jobs.

This completely devalues the work environment because now if you are working somewhere they can cut the workforce in half, and have you do twice the work for less. And if you don't want to do it, they'll move someone up from another department getting paid a lot less, giving them a slight raise and have them do. And filter in people under them. This stretches corporate earnings so management and CEOs can pinch more out.

More people also means more people buying poor people products. Which by the way is the American economy.

So who loves imigration and high unemployment deep down? Companies. Who funds the Republican party and it's "trickle down" policies? Companies.

So what you get is double talk. You get politicians telling you they want a more secure border against terrorists. Yet at the same time, a lax policy against imigration. Cause technically, you can't really guard the border they say. So when someone tries, they say stop that. If we wanted that done, it would be done.

Also, at the same time, isn't it ironic that Mexico tends to get the shaft when Canada tends to be more open door. I think there is always an element of racism and class warfare when it comes to the mexican border.

[edit on 1-4-2005 by Lord Altmis]

perhaps the minutemen could get together, and start construction on walls and checkpoints? im sure you could get charitable donations if its funded as an art project.

Originally posted by Byrd

How about the Arizona Border Patrol denouncing the effort:
kvoa.com...

yep,
the Arizona Border Patrol, back in the 1990's
'guaranteed' that Civilians that Intruded into Their Patrol Areas
would face the full measure of the law, meaning arrest & fines
for hindering and impeeding a Law-Enforcement Agency...

The 'movement' against illeagle immigrants back then was effectively
nipped-at-the-bud..
This present Drama may spiral down the tubes too,
but maybe it will take violence and shot bodies
of the vigilanties or the MS-13?
for this drama to end.

You might want to try searching for some news first. Front page of U.S. news from Reuters. It is a protest, they aren't ex-military or law enforcment, just people getting in the way. And it is going to last a month. Just one, not two, or three, one.

Could you get that quote from a source instead of just pulling it off out of your arse? I believe you, but it would be nice to make sure it was the truth. Thanks.

They've been around longer than a month and have been effective. When was the last time a ruthless drug gang put a bounty on the heads of the Border Patrol?
The enabling policy that allows illegal entry has got to change. Illegals coming into this country without evil intentions are one thing, but for every hundred, how many out of that "small group" are bent on wreaking havoc?
I can understand the viewpoints of people against the idea of armed civilians taking matters into their own hands, the Oklahoma bombing painted a despicable face on the term "militia," and the media branded it on every American's mind with copious amounts of fear. One last question:

If Homeland Security was effective concerning border containment, why have The Minutemen banded? (No rubberstamping please.)

[edit on 1-4-2005 by asala]

If those guys want to solve the problem, they can go home, find out what jobs the illegal immigrants are taking (that would be janitorial jobs, hotel jobs, lawn service jobs, trash hauling jobs, construction jobs) and they would start an aggressive program in their OWN area to get Americans filling those jobs and make sure there's no reason for them to try and come to America.

This is not only the problem in the US really.
In every western country, illegal immigrants fill up the jobs the westerners are to lazy or vain to do.

In Belgium for instance, they alowed bulkloads of Italian, Turkish and Marrocan people to immigrate to belgium in the first part of the 20th century. Because the coalmines needed workers and noone here wanted to do it.

In case of coalmines its kinda understandable, since most if not all of the people that worked in the mines for a prolongued time died at a premature age, have had respitory problems for the rest of their lives or lost their lives in the mines, then theres also loads of them that got all sorts of cancer and other illnesses. This resulting in a long term extra weight on the healthcare system. Most of the coalminers in belgium were alowed to go on early pension around age 50.

Eventualy the coalmines were still closed because it was costing still to much to keep them open. So then we were stuck with a bulkload of immigrants that were on early retirement, hadn't been the least integrated into belgian society and had nothing more to do then making offspring.

The true problem about this started afterward, when all these legal immigrants started shipping over their families and friends, posing these friends as family, and in alot of cases, also total strangers, paying these legal immigrants, to be able to pose as family of them.
With no education, no will to learn either of the 3 belgian languages, no will to integrate in belgian society, no credentials to get a modern age job, alot of these people are still living in belgium, either leaching the social security system, collecting pensions, child support or unemployment cheques, while working the jobs noone else will do.

I know alot of 5th generation turks and marocans here, that still don't speak a single word of dutch or french, that don't know the first bit about belgian society(except for all the ways there are to get money from our social security system) and that are either fulltime involved in crime, or working illegaly, doing all the jobs most western people wouldn't do.
(ps. there are alot of integrated people too, but not as much as there should be)

These are errors made by our goverments in the past, errors that need to get fixed before our social security systems collapse in themselves. In belgium they are working on it by reschooling everyone who has been on unemployment benefits for a prolonged time and activly have the unemployment offices help people find jobs.

They now also have mandatory language courses and have a more active policy on shipping back people that don't show any interest in integrating in belgian society.

Its not these peoples faults really, but it is ours. The agricultural, horeca and other manual or seasonal labour sectors need people to work for them and most of us, except for maybe students during their holidays, are to lazy to do the work.

I was watching the news when I saw a news report of the minute man, they look, white middle age and older.

I also notice that it looks more like member of the KKK than anything else.

I wonder what kind of training this militia group have and what kind of repercussions will come from it.

The next think we are going to see is another militia group out there the take care of gays and lesbians and non Christian believers or believers of any other religion.

I guess that is what the present administration wants when no law enforcement has made any attemp to stop them or monitor them.

I guess that is what is going to rule our coutry now.

Originally posted by marg6043
I guess that is what the present administration wants when no law enforcement has made any attemp to stop them or monitor them.

But Marg, if the current administration publicly supported the minute men, don't you think that would really alienate the Latino base they have tried to solidify during the last election? I mean one of Bush's major points through the election was easing boarder restrictions with Mexico, so if he turned around now and publicly supported the people trying to keep the illegal Mexicans out...