Amazon workers unionize

originally posted by: captaintyinknots


People like you are cheering for people to get killed on the job while being paid less.

If you didn't have a company to work for how would you eat? You should remember who puts the food on your table, who provides you maybe decades of a stable life. DONT work for a company that you do not like, it is that damn simple. The company owes you nothing and you do not owe the company anything. If you quit tomorrow do you pay the company 50k to rehire and retrain someone, no you just walk away with your last paycheck. Don't expect a company to owe you anything either.


The lowest paid person on my team makes more than 90k, so I really do not know about your whole being killed on the job making less. Is that really 2022?

a reply to: Xtrozero
You, once again, prove that you miss the point.

How would that company make profits without the worker?

You’re right. Companies owe us nothing. Which is why unions are important. To fight for worker rights. Thanks for proving the point.

It’s ok that you don’t understand history. Leave that to those of us who do.

But hey, you totally trust the government and corporations to do you right, right? You love them. They’ll take care of you.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Can a business survive without a cleaning crew?

What would happen if there were no janitors?

Seems to me cleaning is VERY important to a business and thus the cleaners should be able to get a wage high enough to afford healthcare and a home and food and a family.

originally posted by: Daughter2

Anyway, though there is some corruption, unions now have such strict oversight, they are pretty honest (they even have internal staff whose job is to check -

)

I guess the big questions are who pays all those wages, even the ones whose job is to ensure unions are on the up and up? Is it really worth it? Could it just be a level of bureaucracy just sucking on the wages of the worker that only really care about their own jobs?

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: Xtrozero


How would that company make profits without the worker?

Two answers here, both accurate and both easily seen in action right now.
1. Outsourcing. Send the jobs to third world #holes that don't have unions (or environmental and worker protection regulations) and manufacture your product for far less than it costs to ship the finished product to the US market.
2. Automation. Detroit wouldn't be the failed wasteland it is today if not for unions and their asinine demands. Strikes coupled with ridiculous wage and benefit demands didn't just drive up the MSRP of American cars, it leaped the US into an era of automation with robotic arms welding, bolting, cutting, gluing, sorting, quality control testing, packaging, and transporting the product all the way through assembly lines that were once happily staffed with human beings that had comfortable incomes before they allowed union chiefs to whisper into their ears how they deserved more than a comfortable living.

America's manufacturing jobs are long gone, yet America's manufacturing companies are making record profits... without the participation of American workers. That would seem to prove your theory isn't rooted in reality.

Yea! Trust your union, not govt and corps, they are totally (D)ifferent!

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Xtrozero

Can a business survive without a cleaning crew?

What would happen if there were no janitors?

Seems to me cleaning is VERY important to a business and thus the cleaners should be able to get a wage high enough to afford healthcare and a home and food and a family.

www.cmmonline.com...
Automation will soon eliminate those jobs as well.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

Portland is trash. Not because of unions. Because of leftist rule. Unions aren’t causing the homeless camps. Union workers are about the only ones surviving here.

Unions are a leftist ideology true and through. Most of your unions are city workers...lol talk about a true wasted place for a union. I can see maybe with some companies like Amazon and Walmart but teachers and government workers are just a big waste. All the businesses are moving out of Portland, going else were due to the cost and crime now. I made sure I lived across the river as I can spend 2k more a month on a house I would be paying into taxes on your side. Unions are really not helping the situation one bit.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
Do you like weekends? Holidays? 40 hour work weeks? Workers comp? Insurance?

Thank a union.

Sure but it is 2022 now and everyone has that. My company went to a 9-day work schedule every two weeks. Nice having a 3 day weekend every other week. We now moved people to work from home most of the time when they can no more sitting there 8 hours waiting on the clock to hit 5, do it at home and if you have nothing left to do for the day then go home. We created midterm pay raises to give people that shine a little extra on top of about a 4 to 6% pay raise every year. Free healthcare for the workers...free... 401k matching, I get a little over 4 hours per week of PTO, so on and so forth all done without a union.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

You’re right. Companies owe us nothing. Which is why unions are important. To fight for worker rights. Thanks for proving the point.

The company owes you no more or less than what you put into it. You give me 8 hours and I'll give you 8 hours of pay. As an incentive to keep you working for me I'll also provide your healthcare, time off, 401k matching, and a dozen of other benefits.

A person who gets paid 90k actually costs the company 160k, and you suggest the company is some evil entity that needs this heavy oversite, for a price of course...lol

As I said you can leave at any time if conditions are not to your satisfaction, that is why companies offer so much above the paycheck. Always remember who puts the food on your table, its not the unions.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Xtrozero

Can a business survive without a cleaning crew?

What would happen if there were no janitors?

Seems to me cleaning is VERY important to a business and thus the cleaners should be able to get a wage high enough to afford healthcare and a home and food and a family.

OK, I'll ask...

What is a living wage? Not in money but in living. What do we see as part of our living expenses that are more of a luxury than a right?

We need to look around the world to see what is actually a living lifestyle. In America, there is so much we add to what we say is living that are actually luxuries that come with having more money.

If you are a Janitor should it pay for you to live on your own, or is living also having roommates? Is privacy a luxury or need? Is a new car a luxury or need...so on and so forth. Do you think a person can live on 30k a year?

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
If you’re anti union, you’re anti America.

It really is that simple.

Lol OK.... Show me where a union works today and I'll say OK there is one, but they are overall just another bureaucracy element in the machine that slows everything down, increases prices, rewards mediocrity, prevents growth, and stifles competition on many levels.

Sounds a lot like socialism...lol

Steamfitters union. Plumbers union. Electricians union.

Three right off the top of my head.

Whatcha got little guy?

Leave it to good little fascist whores to call worker representation “socialism”.

Collective bargaining is socialism; but who says socialism is always a bad thing.

You don’t really understand the definition of socialism, huh

I just don’t have an axe to gring when it comes to unionization. They have their good aspects and their bad aspects. Anyone arguing absolutes on the topic is woefully incorrect.

Socialism is economic theory of social organization ... like for Collective bargaining.

You might wAnt to study the actual definition of socialism

I just posted the actual definition of socialism.

Socialism is economic theory of social organization.

You might want to check your boold pressure medication.

You left out the political half of the definition. Selective definitions are pathetic little one.

Own it all, or don’t use it.

We are discussing business not governments.

But corporations do have their political component; so if you insist that "politics" must be part of the definition of socialism than it still works.

Workers collectively bargaining is a socialist activity; economicaly and politically with in the corporation.

Unions also exercise the collective bargaining power at the government political level all the time as well.

What I don't understand is why you as a union proponent get all hot and bothered just because someone accurately discribe unionization as being socialist? Are you embarrassed by this fact? You don't need to be; socialism isn't a dirty word and works well for unions.

You talked about socialism. Socialism, at its core, is a political ideology. Nice try. Either own what you say, or don’t say words that you don’t understand.

Hot and bothered? No. Laughing at the morons trying to pervert the idea of unions? Yes.

I have been consistent in the fact that unionization is a socialist activity; I don't own this fact, its just reality.

unionization is a socialist activity; and that makes you upset for some reason that I don't understand. As if you feel that this fact some how undermines the benefits of unions. There is no need to be this defensive unless you are unsure of your opinion.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: dandandat2
My father was in a union; he retired with a pensions that was three quarters his last years salary; my mom will get 1/2 that pension when he dies. They also get full medical benefits for life.

Its my understanding is that the union doesn't do so well for the current generation doing the same job. They require current workers to pay into their own pension and medical and they won't be making nearly as much when they retire and no more for life medical.

Pensions died a long time ago, companies can't afford them and competition eats them up. 401k matching is what they do now. That is what happened with the car industry they were paying more in pensions than wages.

Yes they are also bankrupting city and state governments.

Unfortunately many (most?) people do not know how to properly manage their 401k or even take advantage of company matching.

originally posted by: Edumakated

Yep. This is also the Walmart way. Shut er down.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Unions generally only are prospected because a company is so successful and driven mainly by profits.

Amazon is a profit driven enterprise, most of it's wealth is within stockholder shares. Although most of it's profits are within cloud based technology, they have ample room to allow for worker organization and profit sharing to their physical labored workers. This is the conundrum we are facing right now, we are on the verge of technocrats leading us into a whole new realm of economics, almost back to feudalistic economics, expect more people to be pushing back.

Unions were necessary before OSHA, NIOSH, and every other regulatory group. There are so many regulations and laws regarding employees that they have become obsolete. They were needed, but their time has come has come and gone and they are nothing but a money suck from its members. I work in a “right to work” state. Work side by side with union folks…same pay, benefits, the only difference…monthly union dues.

a reply to: captaintyinknots

Like I said, back in the day unions did a good thing, but that was a long time ago. Non-union companies have come a long way too. Today unions serve themselves and little else. When I retired we had no unions at our facility. What we did have was great pay, plenty of holidays, good bonuses, and an excellent savings program as well as a pension plan.

OSHA takes care of safety today so unions are not needed for that. Wage and labor takes care of hours, conditions, and age so unions are not needed for that. Of all the things unions were originally created for, what is left that we still need unions to protect us from? Nothing - besides unions that is. Real workers need protection from unions who will strong arm their employers into firing them so they can be replaced with union workers to pay dues to the union. The employer is no better off and in most cases far worse. I have seen this firsthand.

Early in my career I received an offer from a company in Boston. They flew me out there first class, put me in a nice hotel, had a real estate agent standing by to show me properties in the area, and made me the best offer they could make. Unfortunately, because of the union at that facility, they could only offer me a fraction of what I was making at my present job. The offer was so low I would never have been able to afford to live in Boston or the surrounding area. The VP told me the offer was the best he could do because of the union. They had a rule that no new hires salary could exceed a certain percentage of the existing union employees.

They had one employee in particular who was killing the place for everyone. He was by all measures an inadequate fool. In more than ten years he had not earned a single promotion or improvement in position or salary. However, he received a raise every year as well as several promotions over the ten years he was there. The reason was in order to give a raise or promotion to anyone else in the company who had actually earned it, they had to give one to him too since had been there longer. This guy got promotions and raises he absolutely did not deserve because of the union and the company could not hire anyone better without paying him even more than he was already getting.

If that is what unions are good for - they are good for nothing other than keeping substandard employees on the payroll and making the company stuck with them suffer.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

"OSHA takes care of safety today so unions are not needed for that."....

What a crock that is. The only time OSHA gets involved is when there is media coverage and their actions are in the spotlight.

In a non-union shop - if you get sick at work, and you suspect it was from something in the work environment, you have a steep uphill battle on your hands to get management to acknowledge it. Many times, if you keep making complaints, they will just fire you.

If in a union, then they are on your side 100% and will make sure you get the attention you deserve.