It's ALL Propaganda folks

a reply to: BigfootNZ

I did the same and even found the actual building with Facebook posts from years ago showing children cancer patients. I call the OP BS like you do. His claims are not true.

a reply to: JAY1980

See I respect that others will see NATO's movements as provocation, and I don't disagree to an extant, so I ask this question of you....

If that is indeed the case, why not attack a NATO country? Before this invasion, I would have thought the Russians where good enough that they could have steam rolled the Baltic States before anyone would have really known what had happened.

Ukraine is not part of NATO, and as far as I can tell, other than a couple of incidents less than a km or two inside the border since 2014, Ukraine has not attacked Russian soil.

ETA: If I was in Vlads shoes and NATO is truly the reason he's moved when he has, I'd have every reason to say # it, the time is now. We have openly declared economic warfare, which it was rightly called by that French politician before he was forced to walk his words back. And we are OPENLY giving weapons to Ukraine AFTER the invasion started. It isn't Charlie Wilson's War were the arms are going through Mexico- Spain-Egypt-Pakistan-Afghanistan or whatever( I don't remember the exact countries but you get my meaning I hope). This is NATO countries saying here, take these Javelins and the like to destroy Russian hardware and personnel. Openly, in press releases from their respect govs.

originally posted by: detroitnative

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: GAOTU789
The only real facts I am sure of in this whole conflict is that Russia invaded another country without provocation and that people are dying on both sides.

Great OP, GAOTU789.

I do disagree with the bolded words above. There may not have been a military provocation ... but, they poked the bear.

I agree. I think Trump told NATO countries to pay their fair share and then told Putin there would be no NATO expansion. I think Putin was fine with that or what was the current status quo. Then Biden and his State Department got there and decided, probably out of spite that all options were on the table including NATO expansion.

I think the Russia build up was a warning. I think Putin gave the west plenty of time to back off their NATO expansion threats and they did not.

At the very least they poked the bear. I think they provoked much more than that though. Someone wants a war and they want the players to be the big dogs on the block. Once the west goes to war with Russia, I think China gets involved.

Unless we have some super duper alien tech at Area 51, I think we are in for one hell of a ride over the start of this decade. Maybe the global players know its over for the dollar and they all got together and agreed to reset the chess board?

Very much my analysis as well.

Somebody else on the site said there was no off-ramp for this mess. I agree with that, only because no one on the West's Side can concede they were wrong and Putin DID have a reason to act with his military.

It also baffles me how people can say that whoever invades a sovereign nation is simply at fault. How many times has this happened in the history of man? And, how many times did the victorious say they were wrong to have done it?

Go after the ball not the player.

a reply to: GAOTU789

other than a couple of incidents less than a km or two inside the border since 2014, Ukraine has not attacked Russian soil.

Putin made a address the other day on this. Russians entered into Ukraine over Donbass. The media kept ignoring not to mentioning to their audiences that Ukrainian government were militarily shelling residents and killing children in Donbass and its surrounding regions.


The media claims that Russia attacked Ukraine unprovoked but why do they ignore what Ukrainian military was doing in Donbass with the shelling violating the Minsk treaty?

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: GAOTU789

other than a couple of incidents less than a km or two inside the border since 2014, Ukraine has not attacked Russian soil.

Putin made a address the other day on this. Russians entered into Ukraine over Donbass. The media kept ignoring not to mentioning to their audiences that Ukrainian government were militarily shelling residents and killing children in Donbass and its surrounding regions.


The media claims that Russia attacked Ukraine unprovoked but why do they ignore what Ukrainian military was doing in Donbass with the shelling violating the Minsk treaty?

The media is state sponsored and has an agenda, thats why. There's two sides to every story and they are only going to show you one side that benefits TPTB.

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originally posted by: carewemust
3.9.2022

President Zelenskyy is pulling out all the stops to get NATO/USA involved too. For instance, the mysterious Mariupol, Ukraine hospital bombing earlier today...

Here's a list of Ukraine hospitals, current as of 3.7.2022: en.wikipedia.org...

There is no Womens and/or Children's hospital in Mariupol.

Are there any articles that name the specific hospital that was bombed?

All those I find are very generalized, like this one: www.reuters.com...

Maternity Hospital in Mariupol...

Polohovyy Budynok
Metalurhiina St, 31, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Childrens Hospitals in Mariupol...

Poliklinika Dlya Ditey
Akademika Amosova St, 54а, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Dytyacha Ambulatoriya
Myru Ave, 80, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Dytyacha Poliklinika
Kyivs'ka St, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Are any of those the bombed ones? No idea but they do exist within the city.

I have been getting a lot of my info from this guy...

Gonzalo Lira - YouTube. He started out doing videos on his other channel Coach Red Pill.

He is American living in Ukraine, married to a Ukrainian and has little kids. He never officially states his political position, but I assume he leans right more than left - but probably more independent or just a "leave me the F alone, I want my freedom" kinda ideology. He stands for freedom, but hates the democrats and Trump as equally.
He has been giving amazing history lessons that most Americans may not even know about. He goes into these little details about local issues and conflicts with Russians and Ukrainians on the border - that just don't make the news. He is well versed in the region - and criticizes leadership in Russia and Ukraine (so he is not biased against either) - but has far more insight on the corrupt leaders of Ukraine than the news or those in political or important positions will ever broadcast here. Although, there are a number of conservative pundits who are pretty open with laying out some truth. We all know about Putin, so pretty moot point.

He has given information about things happening there on the ground that are in direct conflict with what the news is reporting - and then later, confirmed in the news. Too much to actually write out - one just needs to watch him.

I have watched most his videos, some live as they were happening. I trust his information as it lines up with other information I find from sources I trust (non media).

Ukraine and its government is a highly corrupt country and the POS elite in this country have some deep rooted interests there, they wish to protect. There is a reason that the likes of Soros, Bidens, Clintons et al are so fiercely defending Zelensky.....and it is not because they care about the Ukrainian people. They don't give a crap about them.

Again, we all know about the wonderful Putin (said in sarcasm). We are having it shoved down our throats. But NOBODY of importance or with a platform is talking about the corrupt Zelensky and HOW he came to be. blah blah blah actor. Yes we all know. But it is WHO pushed him into this position and who is actually pulling the strings. That would be Kolomoisky. A very very bad guy.

He also talks about what Zelensky is actually doing w/ the civilians there. And goes into military 'war' strategy. It is all quite interesting, intelligent and nothing that will make the MSM.

Who is Zelensky? By Gonzalo Lira - YT

Controversial Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoisky banned from US

originally posted by: BigfootNZ

originally posted by: carewemust
3.9.2022

President Zelenskyy is pulling out all the stops to get NATO/USA involved too. For instance, the mysterious Mariupol, Ukraine hospital bombing earlier today...

Here's a list of Ukraine hospitals, current as of 3.7.2022: en.wikipedia.org...

There is no Womens and/or Children's hospital in Mariupol.

Are there any articles that name the specific hospital that was bombed?

All those I find are very generalized, like this one: www.reuters.com...

Maternity Hospital in Mariupol...

Polohovyy Budynok
Metalurhiina St, 31, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Childrens Hospitals in Mariupol...

Poliklinika Dlya Ditey
Akademika Amosova St, 54а, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Dytyacha Ambulatoriya
Myru Ave, 80, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Dytyacha Poliklinika
Kyivs'ka St, Mariupol', Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 87500

Are any of those the bombed ones? No idea but they do exist within the city.

The pictures of these 'hospitals' on the Daily Mail were clearly not even occupied in recent times. We are talking palestinian level propaganda with the fake dead people, etc. The pictures showed 'bombed out rooms' with NOTHING in them but empty furniture. Further, many pictures of the 'injured' looked completely staged. Soros is backing Ukraine. He is king of propaganda here in the US. There is zero reason to believe he is not behind the propaganda in Ukraine.

a reply to: BigfootNZ

Its Travmatolohiya

200 Nakhimova ave

If anyone is likely going to stage a likely chemical attack i doubt it would be Russia.
I see more headlines accusing Russia of doing how could anyone believe after the Iraqi WMDs?

a reply to: shaemac

If you go and try to find images of the 'hospitals' on the news outlets has anyone else noticed they already looked as if they were already damaged?

Someone on YT mentioned it before got their comment by YT. The damage to the 'hospitals' or hospitals that the MSM is spreading of the images the damages dont seem "Fresh" as in "Recently" the building looked completely empty.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: shaemac

If you go and try to find images of the 'hospitals' on the news outlets has anyone else noticed they already looked as if they were already damaged?

Someone on YT mentioned it before got their comment by YT. The damage to the 'hospitals' or hospitals that the MSM is spreading of the images the damages dont seem "Fresh" as in "Recently" the building looked completely empty.

Yup and the pics of that same girl, the model from Mariupol is the only "pregnant" woman there. Like if this was a fully operating hospital where were all the doctors and nurses? Where was all the other hospital staff like janitors, security and maintenance people? Hospitals are busy, very busy. Where were all the children? Where were all the new born babies?? Where were all the visitors? There should be hundreds and hundreds of people there. When they showed inside the hospital, nobody and nothing was in there? Where was the dead bodies? Like they show us a "pregnant" women on a stretcher being taking away so this isn't hours later? Where are all the children? There should be tons and tons of children in the area with all the doctors and nurses from the hospital. Zelenskyy said there was Doctors, pregnant women and children all under the rubble, but the buildings were still standing? How did they end up "under the rubble" when people are walking around inside the hospital? Windows were blown out and looks like there was an explosion of some kind but the walls of the hospital are still standing, the roof is on. A bomb gets dropped on a hospital it shouldn't be standing, not 1 wall is knocked down.

There was a solider talking to about a 12 year old boy outside and the boy was fine, not even dirty, only kid I saw in the area. Why aren't people asking where is everybody? Was there only 1 or 2 patients in the hospital? If a children's hospital and maternity hospital full of patients got bombed it would be absolute carnage, there would be body parts and bodies everywhere, people running around screaming and crying, but none of that? Doctors from the hospital would be helping the Injured, nurses too, but yet no doctors and no nurses anywhere? It was so obviously staged and almost EVERYONE fell for it. Zelenskyy said there was children, pregnant women and doctors buried under the rubble, if this is true we should be seeing videos of them pulling people out. There would be tons of rescue teams digging through the rubble, let's see the videos of them digging through the rubble and digging people out. They should be removing bodies.

This hospital bombing won't be mentioned on the news anymore in a day or so even though they should be showing us video of them removing people from the rubble.

Edit-I need to figure out how to post pics better, I got good stuff to post but when I post pics they show up real small in a box

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
It's gotten so bad that I don't believe anything from either side. We live our lives based off of lies and what we think are lies. Sad reality to be honest.

I agree and we need to discuss this with everyone we know. This is the crux of the matter for how the game is played against the common people. Using lies to spin up our action. People so firmly believe those lies they will scream at people with hard data that contradicts the lies. They see a person they want to say is wrong but don't give the data a fair review. Thus allowing the spin to occupy their brains. They fight to not look at the facts, but if they finally do is when it all comes more clear.

a reply to: GAOTU789

Nice pointing it out OP, although i don't 100% fully agree with what you've written.

I think it's funny that democrats who always screamed and voiced out loud against war are ACTIVELY supporting the war - whether it be participating in it or funding it. I also think it's hilarious that politicians currently in office are actively calling for assassination of a leader from another country. It's as if some kind of a 'switch' has been turned on and suddenly this mass of people are calling out and blaming Putin for everything - including inflation from the Fed printing money like there's no tomorrow, high oil & gas prices that has been gradually increasing already (which admittedly Russia recently influenced indirectly had it not been those "sanctions"), the US dollar losing its power (via Russia and China eventually getting rid of dollar reserves), death of 'innocent civilians' (while Zelenskyy is forcefully conscripting citizens INCLUDING underage children and intentionally putting them out on the streets), and more.

No, i don't and will not trust what's coming out of politico, euvdisinfo, and those "fact checking" sources because just like their any other misinformation, trusting them isn't trusting the 'truth' but rather what you are told to believe.

Most importantly, it's funny that i can only get reliable information about the warfare from these foreign telegram group chats with real-time update - which eventually gets dumped on Twitter later on. That way, i can see footages without all the BS propaganda.

50 GOP senators want to give the Ukrainians airplanes. Putin has said that would be a declaration of war.

What say you ATS?

a reply to: neo09

Supporting Ukrainians who were invaded is supporting war? How do u figure?

a reply to: vNex92

Why wait 8 years then? The civil war has been happening for 8 years and Russians and Ukrainians have been killing each other the entire time. Both sides have breached the ceasefire agreements. Both sides have shelled and shot civilians. Russian regular army have been killed in Ukraine. Why didn't Vlad recognize either region as a separate country until a few days before he invaded?

And those are genuine questions.

It's a civil war, or was until this invasion, human history is rife with examples of how humans treat other humans during civil wars and it ain't pretty. My estimation, knowing what I do about this conflict, is BOTH sides have committed war crimes in Donbas region of Ukraine but YMMV.

Great write up GAOTU789.

I would like to offer my opinion on the broader conflict in general, some may seem to be off-topic, but just bear with me.

We (the USA) during the last few administrations, have shown ourselves to be weak. We have signaled to the world that we are ripe for inaction with our world stage status decreasing steadily. During WW2, the United States of America was, in fact, united in our resolve against the enemy - the Axis - and for the most part every US citizen had resolve in their hearts to eliminate that evil. But what have we shown the world?

We've shown the world - as the shining beacon of hope - that none of us can be counted on for national unity. Weak leadership unable to unite our own people behind almost any policy or stance. ATS in some ways serves as the canary in the coalmine as we can see it pretty visibly here. US member at US members' throats, and can't seem to agree that for 700 years, Russia has had an expansionist policy; that they are the aggressors here.

The word provocation is a trap in that anything can be considered provocative depending on the temperment of a tyrannical leader. The real keys to a strong leader would be proportional response to perceived provocation versus real military provocation. Children flail out when they don't get their way.

My personal perspective is that mankind, at their basic level abhors peace more than they abhor war. The mere fact that war can generate obscene amounts of profit is just icing on the cake for those inclined to prefer war over peace.