It's ALL Propaganda folks

Hear, hear!

a reply to: Boadicea

So you know and understand that Ukraine is attacking ethnic Russian people and Russian-sympathizers in Ukraine, and you do not consider that "provocation," and just think tough # for you? Because "no provocation" and these people don't deserve protection and defense from acts of war committed by their own government forces?

I do understand that, that's why it's a civil war. The same as the rebels have been attacking ans killing ethnic Ukrainians. There is no party involved in that civil war that is clean. In fact, civil wars have been some of the most bloody and heinous actions in our collective history. Look at Rwanda. Civil wars tend to help fuel deep seeded mistrust and hatred of the "other side". Fueled through.... Propaganda.

As for this...

I know there were reports of Ukrainian forces crossing into Russia to commit dastardly deeds prior to Russia's invasion. If these reports are true, then yes, Ukraine did attack Russia. If not, then Ukraine forces only attacked Russian civilians in those areas on the border.

Reports from who? Pravada? Sputnick? ITASS? RT? Der Speigel? Fox? CNN? Ukrainian gov? Russian gov? US gov?

a reply to: GAOTU789

I feel much better seeing there are way more folks like us, then there are of the one's who think the know. Most of the people I have developed a trust in over the years are in the same boat I am, not having a clue where the truth is in all this.

I firmly believe that nobody need spend a second worrying over nuclear war. It should never happen, and if it does, most will not worry after a few seconds and a bright flash. None of us can do anything to deter or change the path this is heading. And as with so many things lately, it all seems scripted, since nothing that has happened in the last several years has seemed normal.

I hope everyone remembers, when you are travelling the wasteland looking for the coast, if my house hasn't been vaporized, there's bourbon in there, get some.

safe travels brother.

a reply to: GAOTU789

I do understand that, that's why it's a civil war. The same as the rebels have been attacking ans killing ethnic Ukrainians. There is no party involved in that civil war that is clean.

Exactly. Which is why it is not accurate to deny any provocation. The best we can say is that the response is not proportionate to the provocation, and therefore not warranted or justified.

And it is a VERY important point, for the very reason it is being denied. We all (pretty much) agree and accept that unprovoked acts of war are not acceptable. Period. Hence garnering maximum support from the people. The people would not have the same level of support if they understood that Ukrainian forces have provoked Russia/Putin.

Reports from who? Pravada? Sputnick? ITASS? RT? Der Speigel? Fox? CNN? Ukrainian gov? Russian gov? US gov?

I could not tell you now. I read of these reports at the beginning of the invasion, while trying to get to the bottom of whether there were actual neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine, and within Ukraine's army. These reports went back several years, to the Maiden protests. And, of course, the reports I read were in English from western sources. If they were originally sourced from Russian or other foreign languages, I obviously did not read those, just the English translations.

I understand that they may or may not be true, or the whole truth. And if someone has something to say otherwise, I am happy to consider it. Have you got anything? Have you tried to confirm or deny these reports?

a reply to: Boadicea

And if someone has something to say otherwise, I am happy to consider it. Have you got anything? Have you tried to confirm or deny these reports?

I have nothing and tbh, this is the first time I have heard this claim. I've been following this conflict since late 2013/early 2014, before the Maidan Square atrocities. There may even be some old ATS Live shows where we discussed this.

a reply to: GAOTU789

My only question to you is did Ukraine attack Russia?

Do we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the first strike came from Russia? After the CIA's Operation Northwoods, I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I loved your writeup- you made some very excellent points.

a reply to: GAOTU789

I have nothing and tbh, this is the first time I have heard this claim. I've been following this conflict since late 2013/early 2014, before the Maidan Square atrocities. There may even be some old ATS Live shows where we discussed this.

Okay. Fair enough. Thank you for responding.

When I first read about such incidents, I admit I had no idea how to confirm or debunk them. Especially given the effort to shut down Russian sources, and Russian-friendly sources, as "propaganda." I assumed then and I assume now that if it did happen, it would be the Russians who would be reporting it and not the Ukrainians. (ETA: Or most "reputable" western sources)

My best guess is that there is some truth to it. How much truth, I don't know.

Thanks for writing this. I don't watch news TV, but I am completely saddened by the fact that people can't seem to wrap their heads around the possibility that we don't really know what the hell is going on. There is complete media control of the narrative and the people are lapping it right up. Even the people who normally condemn the media are buying in.

I can't even begin to convict a side yet, as I have NO idea what's really happening, and neither do 99% of the folks out there who are trying to follow along. Guilty until proven innocent and such. I live in the U.S., and God only knows what contributions we have made to this mess. It sure looks to me like Ukraine is one big laundry mat to some of our leadership, I am stunned at how much money has been thrown their way in the past ten years if the source is to be believed, over 760 million. Exactly what has that gotten us the peasants?

I do know that I am sick and tired of the games and manipulation. This will never end as it's been going on since the beginning of time. He said, she said, and all of that.

Are they really two equal sides?
We still have internet connection. Some people side with Putin because they hate their government and it's cool to be exceptional. Cops in helmets are not dragging them in jail for protesting the war or calling it war. No 15 years in prison, big fines, three years of forced labour.
It doesnt sound like confidence

a reply to: Smigg

It's not so much why is what's happening happening, it's more why is the west trying so hard to intentionally start a war with Russia.

I think it's because they are both fighting for their own version of the great reset, and the west wants regime change.

Just to be clear, Russia & China want the great reset and just about every other WEF infiltrated government wants it too. The disagreement is about how this great reset gets set up.

Russia, and China, do not want to play second fiddle to a world government. They do not want to be the whipping boys of the global elite and their corporations. They want to be the leaders, much like they always have been. China is what China is and expanding with it's B&R, Russia on the other hand is regressing back to it's old totalitarian days so that it can implement IR4. To be clear, Putin loves the idea of the great reset, but only if he's at the top.

The following image, courtesy of Iain Davis, it's what's being setup for us and it's what Russia & China don't want.



So the numbers will continue to stack up against Putin until something breaks, and it will. When the western WEF inspired neo fascists want regime change they generally get what they want, this time however things are different because Putin has big bombs unlike Saddam & Qaddafi.

Just my 2c.

a reply to: GAOTU789

I believe you forgot this at the end of your post.

a reply to: GAOTU789

Have you heard how the US officials are now concerned of their bio labs in Ukraine? looks like they are just basically confirming what the Russians already knew about those bio labs in Ukraine.

But you are right everything from the conflict seems to propaganda.
Like a cover to hide the inflation, supply chain issues which were already happening long before this Ukrainian matter.

It seems like there are people who write these plans out

a reply to: GAOTU789

Are there "nazis" in Ukraine? Yep, well documented.

Are there "nazis" in Russia? Yep, well documented.

Is Ukraine a corrupt country? Yep, well documented.

Is Russia a corrupt country? Yep, well documented.

I think you missed one...

Is the USA a corrupt country? Yep, well documented.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: GAOTU789

One thing I would add is that war time is a time when conspiracy theories are born aplenty and many seem to grow legs despite an absence of evidence to support them.

A new one subtly introduced on Fox last night is to the effect that the Clintonista's via the Obama advisors who operate the Biden puppet actually tricked Putin into invading Ukraine in hopes the effort would become a quagmire which would ultimately bring down Putin in another one of the Clintonista "Color" revolutions, i.e. a "Russian Spring" movement.

That “conspiracy theory” isn’t a conspiracy theory at all - it’s a game plan to accomplish an objective (remove Putin) while neutering Russia and sending a message to China in the process.

Zero conspiracy. It’s a war fighting tactic.

Is it “the truth”? No clue. I just know it’s not a “conspiracy” to deploy a strategy like the one above.

a reply to: GAOTU789

You are completely right, and so far it works like a charm.
People are more and more divided, first because of covid, and now this.
Questioning the official story quickly gets you labelled as a Putin supporter.

It seems nobody has learned anything after 2 years of "flattening the curve" and 20 years of terrorist boogiemen.

a reply to: Smigg

Nobody in this is pure and good. Not Russia, not Ukraine, not the WEF, not the US. I say sit back and watch and let things play out and THEN get the facts and make your decison on who was right and who was wrong. But we should be looking at who's gouging us over fuel and food prices. They are our number one enemy right now. And let's face it, our POTUS is an asshole that's hopelessly incompetent and unfit to serve.

Im just waiting to hear that we have to go into *insert country* to look for biological weapons. With Rubio asking Nuland if there are US biological research labs in the Ukraine and suggesting almost immediately after that if there was a biological weapon attack that it would definitely be Russia who used it. Ive been around long enough to know that our government in the US is at times downright terrible. Be it introducing crack into the inner cities or hell the Tuskegee experiments. I love the US but hate our leaders when they do nothing but lie and try to fool us daily. Doesn't help when the media is another arm of them.

a reply to: GAOTU789
Maybe there were signs of this invasion for the last 15 years but we were too worried about whether or not washing your dishes by hand is bad for the environment and whether or not my pee pee makes me a woman if I don't really feel like it, and orange man bad. I am so sick and tired of seeing try hard loosers thinking they can just tell me what to think. I hope for peace but leadership is so weak that I doubt there will be any. I'm on to more important things now like checking the weather outside.

a reply to: GAOTU789

The only real facts I am sure of in this whole conflict is that Russia invaded another country without provocation and that people are dying on both sides.

I wouldn't say without provocation. In Feb of 2021 Ukraine seized assets belonging to Viktor Medvedchuk, leader of the opposition party, the voice of Russian interests in Ukraine, and long time family friend of Putin. Among the assets, and most importantly, a pipeline that transports Russian oil to Europe. Less than 48 hours later Russian troop buildup on the Ukraine border began with 3000 paratroopers with Putin saying the attack on his proxy was an attempt to purge the political field of opposition.

The buildup of Russian troops on the Ukraine border began a year ago, less than 48 hours after Ukraine seized the pipeline, which meant taking control of the flow of Russian oil to Europe. I consider that provocation. I do not believe it justifies war but I would expect some kind of retaliation from Russia and escalation if not taken seriously.

My point is that Ukraine is as corrupt as anyone else. Hundreds of millions of US federal aid money channeled back to the bidens through hunter biden and his fake job at burisma anyone? biden isn't interested in protecting the people of Ukraine, foreign democracy, or Ukraine independence. He is only interested in protecting his money laundering and nothing more.