Terri Shiavo Died

Yeah, that South Park was a hoot!

I thought the hubby is the one who wanted the exam done???

He may be slime, but I don't rightly think he abused her...they coulda told that in the hospital I'd reckon.....

Can someone help me to understand why Dr. Kevorkian is doing time in prison for helping suffering people relieve themselves of their painfull lives?
"Themselves" being the key word. He set "them"up to shut off "their" lives with the push of a button with their own hand.

Why is it a man pays when someone dies by their own hand . Yet
another walks free for helping shut off a life line? Laws freak me out!

Yeah, that's pretty low for people to make that allegation that he beat her into a vegetative state. They have no proof or reason, other than spite, to accuse him of that. Is it even possible this far after the fact to accurately determine that one way or the other?

Originally posted by Tomorrow
Can someone help me to understand why Dr. Kevorkian is doing time in prison for helping suffering people relieve themselves of their painfull lives?

I don't get that either, and why instead of starving her to death slowly, did they not let Dr. Kervorkian or somebody make it quick? Why do they put child rapists and murderers to death quickly by lethal injection, but slowly starve a medical invalid? It should be the other way around. I would be all for the televised slow starvation of that guy that killed that girl in Florida.

This opens a lot of issues that you really don't want to deal with.

A human body can be kept "functional" for a very long time, as you all well know.

Ignoring this case for a moment, what about a family that decides that after years of suffering it's time to take grandpa off the ventilator? Will they have 100 carpetbaggers outside the window saying "Don't deprive Grandpa of his air?"

The real issue here is a lot more important than Terri Schiavo (so sorry to detract from the movie and book speculators). This is a long term issue, an issue related to this case, an issue related to Kevorkian's case, and so many others.

The issue is death in general. When does a person have the right to die? How can you stand holding a sign saying let Terri live, because you think she's suffering without the tube, yet you'd throw an 80 year old man into a loony bin who is terminally ill because the pain and suffering has become too much for him.

Religious fanatics and atheists BOTH need to stuff their opinions up their rear ends once and for all, meet in the middle, and draw up real legislation relating to death. Your opinion of whether Jesus is waiting for her, or just a clump of dirt in the ground is completely irrelevant.

The fact is, death is a part of the life cycle and this case is a fine example of how stupid we are for not paying enough attention to it, and not preparing ourselves for it. PREPARE A LEGAL DOCUMENT WITH YOUR WISHES AS SOON AS YOU ARE OF AGE. Not so hard to do. If Terri had a document stating "I don't wish to live in that condition" then all the protestors could have sang danced and cried all they wanted, they'd have nothing. People MUST take death into account the same way they take marraige and childbirth into account.

Finally, I am thoroughly amused by some of your opinions on the President and on the Governor of Florida. For over four years now it's been a constant piss and moan piss and moan all about how Bush does what he wants, and ignores everyone else's opinions, and he thinks he's a dictator. Then you have the GALL and AUDACITY to fault him for not standing up and saying "Screw the Judicial Branch, we're taking custody of her!" It is startling to see such hypocrisy. What was it... 30 something decisions over the years against the parents? And Bush is simply supposed to say "Oh well" and do what he wants to do. Had Jeb, or the President done what some of you wanted, they would have effectively stomped on the courts, and unconstitutionally bypassed the checks and balances that our nation is based on. Both Bushes issued statements about how they felt.

Apparently some people are such vomitous hypocrites that they encourage violating the constitution when it pleases them and then rail on the same man in other instances. One way or the other folks. One way or the other.

This is a tragedy that was entirely avoidable. Legal documentation is the only way to avoid it from happening again. If you don't have a document expressing your wishes, especially after seeing this play out, you're an idiot.

I listened to Hannity and there's a lot more to this story than originally thought.
They had an account of what happened to Terri on the night she had her "heart attack". She wasnt even bullemic. She was too young for a heart attack. Turns out her and Michael had a huge argument over her coloring her hair the night the paramedis found her in a fetal position on her living room floor.
Heart attack was ruled out. Some attending doctors thought she'd been STRANGLED.

I'm sure there will be more on this in the comming days (there should be)
I was right. He's a no good SOB

I heard that rumor as well. And didn't he say something about bone fractures like she had been beaten or abused? Sounds like the whole case should have been looked at a bit closer than it was. Well, it's too late now to do anything about it.

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by thematrix
Starting????

Not to jump on the circus wagon, but to show how rediculous things can get in the US.

Oh, and I guess in Belgium this type of thing is impossible? Why must everything be anti US? Geeze give it a rest.

It isn't anti US, but this whole issue was obsurd. That was the point made, and as an American, I agree with thematrix 100%.

whatever side you take on the right to die issue, the way they let this woman die is extremely Inhumane, I happend to believe in a person's right to die, but starvation is just an terribel way to do this. They should have something active for cases like this (quick and painless). they did give her morphine for the outside chance that she would feel anything and most Profesionals with out any Religious/moral bias in this case agree that her brain damage would not let her feel the effects of the dehydration and starvation. But I just find it bizare that a convicted criminal would have a more "dignified" death than this innocents woman. People should please get their wishes in writting, makes it easier for everyone involved the only good thing that will come out of this whole mess is that people are starting to talk more about what they would like in a similar situation which would hopefully prevent another case like this.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I listened to Hannity

and there's a lot more to this story than originally thought.
They had an account of what happened to Terri on the night she had her "heart attack". She wasnt even bullemic. She was too young for a heart attack. Turns out her and Michael had a huge argument over her coloring her hair the night the paramedis found her in a fetal position on her living room floor.
Heart attack was ruled out. Some attending doctors thought she'd been STRANGLED.

I'm sure there will be more on this in the comming days (there should be)
I was right. He's a no good SOB

Let me get this straight you are basing your facts on Fox News and unfounded/unproven rumours? Then you have the gaul to call him an SOB, interesting

[edit on 3/31/2005 by shots]

[edit on 3/31/2005 by shots]

Founded or unfounded he's a class 1 SOB. Like it or not.

I'm entitled to my opinion.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Founded or unfounded he's a class 1 SOB. Like it or not.

I'm entitled to my opinion.

Yes you are entitle to your opinion, however once this is all done and over you may come out looking like a fool after the autopsy proves she was in fact brain dead wouldnt you?

Keep in mind this would never have happened if the father had not been so demanding that he wanted money that he had no entitlement to.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The woman wasnt a vegetable. She was capable of breasthing on her own. she had limited but capable brain function, could respond to stimuli. She was alive.

atrix, it wasnt a 15 uyear legal battle to "allow her to die peacefully", spare me. It was a 15 year battle so Michael could collect that 10 million bucks. if he really cared about his wife, he would have divorced her and left her care to her parents, and moved on. Terry Schiavo more than likely probably didnt want to die. She was still capable of enjpying music and her parents company.

And since in Belguim, where euthenasia is more and more common, and people seem not to hold even lessened life in much regard, people might find this case here ridiculous, and coming from that perspective, Im very happy that at least the concern over the subject is still a hot debate.

there was nothing "peaceful" about her death, death from slow starvation is a horrible, painful, agaonizing way to go.

Sorry Skadi, but I'm going to finally put in my two cents to this non-sense argument.

First of all, breathing is not controlled by higher-order brain functions. Breathing is a basic function of the "reptilian" brain (AKA: lower brain, brain stem). Hence, that is why we are not conscious of our breathing unless we focus on it. The reason why we breath when we sleep is because of the "reptilian" brain, because if we had to consciously control our breathing when we sleep, we wouldn't be able to sleep!

Here is some info on this subject:

The brain stem is the oldest and smallest region in the evolving human brain. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago and is more like the entire brain of present-day reptiles. For this reason, it is often called the 'reptilian brain'. Various clumps of cells in the brain stem determine the brain's general level of alertness and regulate the vegetative processes of the body such as breathing and heartbeat.

It's similar to the brain possessed by the hardy reptiles that preceded mammals, roughly 200 million years ago. It's 'preverbal', but controls life functions such as autonomic brain, breathing, heart rate and the fight or flight mechanism. Lacking language, its impulses are instinctual and ritualistic. It's concerned with fundamental needs such as survival, physical maintenance, hoarding, dominance, preening and mating. It is also found in lower life forms such as lizards, crocodiles and birds. It is at the base of your skull emerging from your spinal column.

Link

To be more specific, the actual physical part of the "reptilian" brain that controls those specific functions is this:

The brain stem is a stalklike structure that connects the cerebrum with the spinal cord. The bottom part of the brain stem is called the medulla oblongata or medulla. The medulla has nerve centres that control breathing, heartbeat, and many other body processes essential to life.

Link

So as you can see, you don't need to have all your rocks to be able to perform basic functions of survival - that part of the brain does this all for you automatically.

I'd also like to note that Michael Schiavo was offered millions by multiple people to put the feeding tupe back in, but he declined all of them. He doesn't look like the greatest person in the world, but it tells me that he definitely wasn't doing this for money, let alone the public eye. As you can see, he is the only one out of this whole situation that wasn't making a spectacle of himself - Terri Shiavo's parents were making spectacles of themselves.

People take their loved ones off of life-support every freaking day and no-one says hoopla about it. These are parents that were in total-denial of their daughter's condition. I would also think that Michael Schiavo has been the one all these years paying for Terri Schiavo's life-support - not her parents. Do you know how much life-support costs? A few days of life-support can be in the tens of thousands of dollars. Insurance may or may not pay for most of it. But I'm damn sure they would not pay so much after 15 years! If Michael Schiavo has been paying the bills, I can definitely understand why he would do this - out of necessity. Terri was never going to come back. They had perfomed test after test after test. Her brain had atrophied too much. There is no possible way for a human to recover after serious brain atrophy - the cells aren't going to rebuild themselves. Unfortunately the brain may be a muscle, but it isn't like the muscles that make the parts of a human body move - they can rebuild.

Terri Schiavo should have been taken off life support a long time ago. And it's a shame that her parents allowed this crap to carry on for so long. I find it funny how hypocritical all these politicians are about this case, considering some of the Terri Schiavo political supporters have made the choice of pulling the plugs on loved-ones whom have had accidents in their past. I won't name anyone specific, but there are quite few.

The point is, this whole case has been blown out of proportion by the parents, the media, and especially the politicians. This should have been a private affair, with no one but Michael Schiavo and the family involved. I'd also like to state the fact that according to the Supreme Court from a case many, many years ago, an individual's words are as good as those same words written on paper. So if Michael Schiavo said that Terri told him she did not want to be kept on life-support if something like this happened to her, that is as good as a binding agreement written on paper. I'd also like to think that a husband would know his wife better than the parents (not always the case of course).

Regardless of peoples' opinion of Michael Schiavo (repeating what I've already said), he is the ONLY one who didn't turn this into a media spectator sport - think about it. He didn't want this to become a media affair, nor a political affair - and it shouldn't have. Unfortunately, because of the spectacle that became Terri Schiavo, she will now be used as a martyr for religion and politics now, as well as be used to manipulate the minds of the people for personal and political gains.

Terri Schiavo died a long time ago and it is time to move on.

Rest in peace.

[edit on 3-31-2005 by EmbryonicEssence]

.
Peace to Terri.
May she find whatever peace and joy death has to offer.

On to the political circus of spin:
The HEIGHT of Republican Hipocracy from Tom DeLay,

Congressman DeLay has denounced the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube as "an act of barbarism." But that's not what he felt 16 years ago when he told the doctors not to put his father on dialysis to prevent kidney failure.

DeLay Hypocracy

Thats nice. I wonder if you'll care when 20 points are deducted for writting nothing and contributing nothing.

It's amazing how many people give a damn about something that is none of their business (unless you are concerned about the legal precedence on the matter). I must say though, this is a very effective Red Herring to more pertinent social issues. You might aswell tell a Micheal Jackson joke.

Which reminds me....



*Knock Knock*

Who's there?

Micheal Jackson.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Yeah, that's right, he's the punchline.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Thats nice. I wonder if you'll care when 20 points are deducted for writting nothing and contributing nothing.

Oh no, you mean I could lose 20 points for calling a Red Herring when I see one!?

THE PERIL!!!!!!

!@#%$!@#%

Here's an existing thread started in October about the same subject:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cut & paste from a parallel universe...er...I mean thread but applies here too:

A story.

Stop me if you heard this one...

A man heard on TV there was going to be a massive flood in the area. A neighbor comes rushing over saying "we've gotta get out of town, a flood is coming!". The man calmly responded, "my faith in God will rescue me from death". Well it starts pouring hard. The man seals himself tight in his home and hears a knock on his window. Astonished, he opened it up and saw a woman in a boat telling him to jump in so they can row away. Again he responds, "no thanks, my faith in God will rescue me". Hours later the man is on his roof as the waters practically engulf his house. Still the rain is coming down. A helicopter drops a ladder and the pilot shouts "grab on! We'll get you to safety!." He looked around, sighed and said, "no need, my faith in God will rescue me". The pilot says, "suit yourself" and flies off. Well, the rains kept coming and the man died by drowning. In heaven he goes up to God and said, "God! I had faith that you'd rescue me from death, why didn't you?". God said, "Look. I told you over TV, I sent your neighbor, a boat, and a helicopter. What do you want from me?"

I do like that story.

My point: God blesses us with the ability to care for and sustain life. Ultimately it is His decision, but to sit and do nothing expecting a miracle is just plain lazy. God works through us and with us so that we participate in being part of that miracle too.


[edit on 31-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Tomorrow
Can someone help me to understand why Dr. Kevorkian is doing time in prison for helping suffering people relieve themselves of their painfull lives?

I don't get that either, and why instead of starving her to death slowly, did they not let Dr. Kervorkian or somebody make it quick? Why do they put child rapists and murderers to death quickly by lethal injection, but slowly starve a medical invalid? It should be the other way around. I would be all for the televised slow starvation of that guy that killed that girl in Florida.

Exactly what I was getting ready to say, and I couldn't have said it better. It's like we're having mercy on the wicked, and punishing the innocent.