Eduard Albert "Billy" Meier: Are his films hoaxes also? Look and decide.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: Annee

Yeah, I was going to mention Horn. He is a weird guy. Maybe the aliens gave him to Meier. He sure looks and acts the part.
(I'm being facetious of course.)

One thing I noticed once.

If you look at the average crowd anywhere in the world, you'll see some weird-looking people often.

But Horn is a strange character whoever he's from!

Why don't you contribute to the thread topic in a positive way and keep your personal opinions private?

originally posted by: idusmartias
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I cannot give you the respect you deserve because your replies lack logic and common sense and don't make you sound as if you know what you're talking about.

I thought of expanding my reply buitwhen I tried at 1:10 am, just slightly over 2 hours from posted on Mar, 6 2022 @ 10:54 PM the ATS dumb computer said I had exceeded the 4-hour limit for editing my reply: "You have exceeded the maximum window of 4 hours allowed to edit your post."

Here's what I wanted to add to my reply. You criticize Meier as using nefarious methods. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Why don't you show the members of this forum your evidence that poles, string and/or wire were used by Meier and/or associates? Don't criticize a video frame, criticize the videos from which the screen shot was taken. Let's see the great Arbitrageur come up with your enhanced photos or footage where you see poles and string/wire. Who cares what from "The Encyclopedia of Skepticism and the Paranormal" says? The don't provide any evidence and the link to the video is dead as it's been archived. But let's move down to these stupid comments.

"Billy Meier's story has prompted a great deal of research into his claims, both by skeptics and those within the UFO community who expected to confirm his reports. What was discovered is that the Billy Meier story actually represents the biggest UFO hoax in history. Upon close examination it was discovered that not one of his alleged photographs were original prints, but all had been airbrushed or otherwise altered."

idusmartias: But not even one example of that stupid claim is shown. IOW, hogwash!

"Models of some of the spacecraft seen in his photo's were found in his house. In one video of an alleged flying saucer, the spacecraft can clearly be seen to be swinging pendulum style as if it were suspended by a wire. The photograph of an alleged Pleiadian alien was discovered to be a photocopy of a model taken from a Sears Catalog. Under close scrutiny, all of Billy Meier's alleged evidence has been shown to be false."

idusmartias: Again, crap! This is not objective criticism. In the documentary linked above in a reply, you see an individual carrying models that he/they are going to give Meier, as an honor. "as if it were" doesn't buy it, be specific and sure. This thread is NOT about photos but about films. There is no evidence that "all of Billy Meier's alleged evidence has been shown to be false." Arbitrageur, this is where you come in, provide their (and your) evidence.

"Yet, Billy Meier's claims survived for many years within the UFO community, being touted as the best evidence for the reality of alien visitation. There are still those who will not admit the entire case is a complete fraud."

idusmartias: That last sentence invalidates the claims from the morons who wrote the fallacious "The Encyclopedia of Skepticism and the Paranormal".

Arbitrageur: You are a member of this forum's old guard, along with possibly a couple of other members, you've been here forever and you have built a respected reputation. But yours is not the final word and your armor has developed chinks which can be exploited.

commons.wikimedia.org...:Mount_Fuji._Before_1902.jpg


Shoko Asahara

Switzerland doesn't have as notable a reputation dealing with the practical application, as per say Mount Fuji in Japan................Remember that Humanities Dirth Charge, its unclean genetic lines and anti-field collective charge, makes the earth seem like its a black hole.

In reality the Planet Earth is not a Black Hole, and has a very low field charge, that takes considerable, inhuman effort to identify with.............on a individual basis, it may take something as simple as sticking wood into the earth to act as a receptor.
....................
....................
....................
Regarding the title of a High Priest, under the assumption of a pyramid builder............or an individual performing a feat of strength, satan's position is very weak and negative........satan would only promote and gift renown and authority, but remember satan's position is unclean, detriment, dirth, filth, suicid* pleasure only...........the general practice is following some unclean act on that individual's part or feat of strength or etc, its generally satan's opportunity to dispute the euthanasia of that person's body, otherwise satan can do nothing else but give authority only, and that is contrary to satan's position.

Dealing with humanity, without removing the issue of humane dirth by the principal means of the loss of life, or the loss of life that isn't in a god glorifying capacity, that is to say with blessing and alms, then, that is satan's general area of controversy. Otherwise, you live and then you die following a relatively normal capacity, there's no controversy or anything, satan in its uncleanness will do more then double to remain blind and dumb to the end of humanity this earth, signs or wonders or etc. this is the real reality.

The answer with billy meir is that the material was designed to resemble a hoax, based on someone's understanding of past or future events, that would be overthrown in satan's controversy of dead flesh/dirth charge.

(the historical, religious, biblical, answer following the assumption of authority, is the disposal of political authority in view, to gauge the argument as a mental illness attributed to satan, and a trial of faith for the appointee, in making the assessment of action limitations or scope of field, in relation to geography, economy and socio-graphics)

a reply to: idusmartias

Cooper got involved in all sorts of weird projects once he didn't get the moon flight he expected as his right [bluntly, he washed out of training],. and was eased out of NASA - but still enjoyed TV gigs. He became spokesman for a company selling magic engines that turned air into fuel [until it was shut down by the Federal Trade Commission]. He claimed he saved the shuttle program from a lethal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. He naively flacked for several bogus aviation investment schemes that cost his friends and others who trusted him millions of dollars -- and lost his own savings in them, too. He described his Gemini-5 capsule in 1965 getting hammered by a meteor storm that nobody back on Earth found even a scratch from [the capsule has been on display in Houston for years, no scratches]. He told reporters he had a magic camera on Gemini-5 that could read license plates on cars 200 miles below him, and he wrote one plate number down and later located the driver who confirmed he’d been in that city on that date [the pictures showed nothing smaller than city blocks]. He told the story of how he had used a top-secret Soviet missile silo detector on his Mercury-9 flight that also picked up signs of sunken treasure ships in the Caribbean, and he said he kept a personal log of the exact latitude/longitude of each wreck for later hunting privately [the capsule had no instrument to display lat/long]. He described visiting the workshop of a Utah rancher who had built a working model of a UFO engine and described how he flew the model around inside a barn with a remote control unit even though according to another witness [the inventor’s daughter] the model never moved. He packed a travel bag and his camera when he was promised a space ride on an alien craft, and waited by his phone for the pickup spot, but then claimed it was cancelled because of an extraterrestrial political spat. Are ANY of these stories remotely credible? Can’t we honor the guy for his glory days, at his peak, and compassionately pass over his declining years instead of exploiting his possibly Parkinson-induced mental challenges?

ADD
Cooper endorses Billy Meier photos as authentic
youtu.be...


blog discussion
US Astronaut: Billy Meier UFO Photos "Absolutely authentic" (theyflyblog.com)
theyflyblog.com...

originally posted by: JimOberg
a reply to: idusmartias

Cooper got involved in all sorts of weird projects once he didn't get the moon flight he expected as his right [bluntly, he washed out of training],. and was eased out of NASA - but still enjoyed TV gigs. He became spokesman for a company selling magic engines that turned air into fuel [until it was shut down by the Federal Trade Commission]. He claimed he saved the shuttle program from a lethal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. He naively flacked for several bogus aviation investment schemes that cost his friends and others who trusted him millions of dollars -- and lost his own savings in them, too. He described his Gemini-5 capsule in 1965 getting hammered by a meteor storm that nobody back on Earth found even a scratch from [the capsule has been on display in Houston for years, no scratches]. He told reporters he had a magic camera on Gemini-5 that could read license plates on cars 200 miles below him, and he wrote one plate number down and later located the driver who confirmed he’d been in that city on that date [the pictures showed nothing smaller than city blocks]. He told the story of how he had used a top-secret Soviet missile silo detector on his Mercury-9 flight that also picked up signs of sunken treasure ships in the Caribbean, and he said he kept a personal log of the exact latitude/longitude of each wreck for later hunting privately [the capsule had no instrument to display lat/long]. He described visiting the workshop of a Utah rancher who had built a working model of a UFO engine and described how he flew the model around inside a barn with a remote control unit even though according to another witness [the inventor’s daughter] the model never moved. He packed a travel bag and his camera when he was promised a space ride on an alien craft, and waited by his phone for the pickup spot, but then claimed it was cancelled because of an extraterrestrial political spat. Are ANY of these stories remotely credible? Can’t we honor the guy for his glory days, at his peak, and compassionately pass over his declining years instead of exploiting his possibly Parkinson-induced mental challenges?

ADD
Cooper endorses Billy Meier photos as authentic
youtu.be...


blog discussion
US Astronaut: Billy Meier UFO Photos "Absolutely authentic" (theyflyblog.com)
theyflyblog.com...

Thank you for that critical and revealing reply. It's dreadful to read how an exceptionally bright mind was affected negatively by certain diseases that change a mental giant into a person that can only be pitied. Now that I know how Cooper deteriorated mentally, I'll ignore his failings and celebrate his achievements.

Thanks also for including the link to "Scientific Experts’ Comments on Meier’s Evidence". You can't ask for a better group of the 8 experts who all agree that Meier's photos are authentic. I don't know what photos they were shown but they probably did not include the photos that even a child can see are fakes. But the popular consensus is that not all of Meier's photos can be called hoaxes, just the obvious ones and Cooper may have seen them and was fooled.

I'm sure we all appreciate your revealing reply.

a reply to: idusmartias

Jim Oberg replied to this thread and included info on Gordon Cooper who had opinions about Meier, faulty as they were. It's a great reply and you should go to page 3 and read it. While there, you'll find a link to a blog where 8 experts talk positively about some (not all) of Meier's photos being authentic. The 8 experts make this forum experts, especially Arbitrageur, seem like close-mind amateurs, at least about Meier.

Here is the link to "Scientific Experts’ Comments on Meier’s Evidence".

theyfly.com...
1. David Froning: At the time, Dr. Froning had already spent 25 years as an astronautical engineer at McDonnell Douglas in highly classified military defense and, in 1979, became interested in Meier’s accounts of Plejaren starship travel, which mentioned tachyon propulsion. Dr. Froning found Meier's account of tachyon propulsion (which was only beginning to be discussed by a very small and select group of theoretical physicists), and his calculations for above light speed travel to be amazing.

2. Eric Eliason: U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona, created image-processing software so astrogeologists can analyze photographs of planets beamed back from space, spent two years producing the intricate radar map of cloud-covered Venus acquired by Pioneer 10:

3. Robert Post: JPL photo laboratory for 22 years, was the head of that lab in 1979, and oversaw the developing and printing of every photograph that came out of JPL at the time:

4. Dr. Michael Malin: Principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter Camera on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft at Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), San Diego, CA.

5. Stephen Ambrose: Sound engineer for Stevie Wonder, inventor of the Micro Monitor radio set and speaker that fits inside Wonder's ear,

6. Wally Gentleman: Director of Special Effects on the Canadian Film Board for ten years, director of special photographic effects for Stanley Kubrick's film 2001,

7. Nippon TV: Did their own examination and also came to the conclusion that there were no models, special effects or hoaxing involved in Meier’s films.

8. Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty-two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories.

a reply to: idusmartias

Get 'em while they're hot!

This thread is only about Meier's films but I couldn't pass up a little levity.

www.koin.com...
MYSTERY WIRE
Controversial UFO photos sold at auction for $16,500
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 / 11:41 AM PST

Updated: Dec 6, 2019 / 12:41 PM PST

MYSTERY WIRE — Fraud or not, “Billy” Eduard Albert Meier’s photos claiming to show clusters of UFOs over the Swiss countryside are a prominent part of the lore surrounding UFO investigations.

News that they sold for $16,500 at auction to an unnamed bidder at Sotheby’s Auctions should come as no surprise. They have ascended to icons of the controversial field of ufology, which at the time was in a constant struggle for its reputation. One photo is displayed prominently in “The X-Files.”

For more on the investigation into Meier’s photos and this week’s auction, see our full story and video on mysterywire.com.

originally posted by: idusmartias
"In this frame you see a Beamship above a tall tree. "

This is an assumption; why can't it be a model above a small (model) tree?

In this video you can see something moving around in the lower left corner
www.youtube.com... (around 1.18) which seems like a head and an arm pulling a string.


Also the owners of the house have declared there was never a tree in that place.
A lot of the other stuff in his videos is really bad editing ( branches jumping around, clearly movie editing going on, etc etc etc)

Here is an old picture of Billy in india. Somewhere there is another black and white photo of Billy in India with a classic saucer flying behind him. I have my own experiences that really leave me no choice but to believe him.

a reply to: idusmartias

Can you directly reference a photo or video you believe to not have been hoaxed as opposed to referring to lengthy docos or articles that reference the complete body of work ?

originally posted by: bluemooone2
Here is an old picture of Billy in india. Somewhere there is another black and white photo of Billy in India with a classic saucer flying behind him. I have my own experiences that really leave me no choice but to believe him.

www.bbc.com...

The photo from billy meier reports a photograph from edward leedskalnin's reported construction of coral castle...............which involved an object like a Chintamani Stone, that is concealed in a box or buried and a structure is raised above that in a certain location or active earth location.

(IN REALITY)

(the argument is a "small women in a box", and that is because the argument didn't flower or develop the way it should of, and that means, the pyramid builder, will die like a normal person, and the argument also is in its most base and frail terms, voided terms of the "women in the box")

Eventually that will be taken away, need to remember, when this argument is not developed correctly, based on dealing with the human dirth charge, women/murders, uncleanness in testimony or actions, or dealing with signs or wonders even....................the earth is holy and has a small charge, but remember humanity is not holy, and functions in its dirth charge with dead flesh like a black hole.

Weather or not these arguments are salvagable depends on god's allowances for the son of man, for those individuals in view. The answer with billy meier is that, he explored what he could of, and that involved great cost because, his argument was not resolved, he still has a flesh and blood body, and he will die that way...........nonetheless, it wasn't satan committing murder or something unclean because god doesn't ordain suicide, it was his own actions of exploration that caused the issue of discrepancy.............

(the covenant with the homosapien is an inferior covenant..............and its not the same covenant as the covenant with the pyramid builders..........we believe by default the argument is salvagable for some individuals, until it is proven in god's discretion of humanities dirth charge and its covenant, such action are not in this day allowed..............but remember edward leedskalnin's majestic twelve, so we'll have to see, and unfortunately most of those individuals fell back into their old ways and satan snared them)

The account is real, or was real, but he used fabrication to explain what he tried to understand..........in reality exploration in research doesn't have to involve much sin, but, without god resolving the son of man, or classification of a son of man, then, it would also be impossible given the longevity of humanities dirth charge, to do anything more then to live and die, in feeble terms.

Maybe this year everything will be resolved.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: Annee

Yeah, I was going to mention Horn. He is a weird guy. Maybe the aliens gave him to Meier. He sure looks and acts the part.
(I'm being facetious of course.)

One thing I noticed once.

If you look at the average crowd anywhere in the world, you'll see some weird-looking people often.

But Horn is a strange character whoever he's from!

I've personally met Horn, and talked with him.

I'm not saying anything bad about him -- but he is a bit strange.

I do believe there are off-planet beings living amongst humans.

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: idusmartias

Can you directly reference a photo or video you believe to not have been hoaxed as opposed to referring to lengthy docos or articles that reference the complete body of work ?

I don't have to for the following reasons:
1. This thread is about Meier's films, not photos.
2. Photos you can find on lots of websites, take your choice.
3. This thread contains clear visual contributions with suggestions to video sources, mainly YouTube.
4. This thread is not meant to be all-encompassing.
5. By including screen grabs, they indicate that I consider the videos legit until someone with superior knowledge shows me I have been fooled.

originally posted by: MissVocalcord

originally posted by: idusmartias
"In this frame you see a Beamship above a tall tree. "

This is an assumption; why can't it be a model above a small (model) tree?

idusmartias: No, it is NOT an assumption. It is simply a description of what the frame shows.

In this video you can see something moving around in the lower left corner
www.youtube.com... (around 1.18) which seems like a head and an arm pulling a string.

idusmartias: THAT is an assumption. You cannot see any detail to specify anything. However, if you see what you claim, include a photo showing any sign of what you claim.

Also the owners of the house have declared there was never a tree in that place.
A lot of the other stuff in his videos is really bad editing ( branches jumping around, clearly movie editing going on, etc etc etc)

idusmartias: Since you seem to have some knowledge, please post a source where we can see it for ourselves. Are you a film expert and confident of what you're stating? If yes, include samples.

originally posted by: idusmartias
No, it is NOT an assumption. It is simply a description of what the frame shows.

Yes it is. Explain to me why it can't be a small (model) tree and ufo.


Because when the Japanese TV-crew was there there was no tree:

youtu.be... (around 8:20 into that clip)

Owners and other people in the area claiming there was never a tree:
www.youtube.com... ( around 5.09 )

So the tree doesn't exist at that time in that place; only in this video from Meier. So he is caught red handed again and then he starts to make up stories to try and keep his story straight. (in this case the Plejaren moved the tree by radiation to another location in time.)

Meier also claims the UFO makes a few 'energy' jumps or something like that which are nothing more then bad film editing:


These cuts can be found throughout the film. Everytime Meier is caught of these kind of faking the excuse is always that the MIB or the Plejaren did it.

THAT is an assumption.

Oh yes, but it looks pretty much like an arm pulling a string, but you tell me what it is.

originally posted by: idusmartias
This frame shows that the pole/string is not feasible. The craft moves around in the distance while the foreground branches can be seen affected by the wind.

Again an assumption; if it is a model of a few centimeter/inches this can be done very easily with a string. This is simple forced perspective. Also the jumps the UFO makes are again clear film cuts ( you see the branches moving and suddenly they stop when the UFO 'jumps').

youtu.be... ( around 4.08 )

These are interesting frames. The craft is seen hovering, then disappearing and reappearing on the same spot. What I haven't seen mentioned or analyzed is that each time the craft disappears or reappears there is a ground effect where the foreground darkens for a fraction of a second

Again you see the complete scenere moving/jumping around as the UFO does it jumps; again clearly film editing:


youtu.be... ( around 6.11 and 6.46 )

When you view the video and use frame-by-frame and have patience the craft will appear not as a whole, complete craft but will be seen materializing. This materializing is visible even in the low quality YouTube videos.

Please keep in mind that there has been a lof of conversion going on; The original are real films, then their are copies from that film on video, and also in translating it to a youtube video it sometimes fills in frames resulting in a sort of 'fading' effect. Here you can see leaves doing exactly this "materializing":

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: idusmartias

Can you directly reference a photo or video you believe to not have been hoaxed as opposed to referring to lengthy docos or articles that reference the complete body of work ?

I don't have to for the following reasons:
1. This thread is about Meier's films, not photos.
2. Photos you can find on lots of websites, take your choice.
3. This thread contains clear visual contributions with suggestions to video sources, mainly YouTube.
4. This thread is not meant to be all-encompassing.
5. By including screen grabs, they indicate that I consider the videos legit until someone with superior knowledge shows me I have been fooled.

1. Ok
2. Not relevant then if it is about films - see 1
3. This thread contains no clear reference from you as to the source of any of the screen grabs you used in the OP
4. Hence my question for you to be specific, which I guess you have - see 5
5. No problem using screen grabs to highlight something, just reference the source of the video

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: idusmartias

Can you directly reference a photo or video you believe to not have been hoaxed as opposed to referring to lengthy docos or articles that reference the complete body of work ?

I don't have to for the following reasons:
1. This thread is about Meier's films, not photos.
2. Photos you can find on lots of websites, take your choice.
3. This thread contains clear visual contributions with suggestions to video sources, mainly YouTube.
4. This thread is not meant to be all-encompassing.
5. By including screen grabs, they indicate that I consider the videos legit until someone with superior knowledge shows me I have been fooled.

1. Ok
2. Not relevant then if it is about films - see 1
3. This thread contains no clear reference from you as to the source of any of the screen grabs you used in the OP
4. Hence my question for you to be specific, which I guess you have - see 5
5. No problem using screen grabs to highlight something, just reference the source of the video

3. Wrong. The following references are found in my OP:
A few years ago I watched a YouTube video
The YouTube video that I used for the frames was low in quality.
This materializing is visible even in the low quality YouTube videos.

Additionally, anyone who has watched a YouTube video will recognize immediately the YouTube video format and will accept without questioning that my screen grabs came from a YouTube video.

There are way more than one YouTube video featuring Meier's films. I had to shop around to find the best video to grab what I thought was the best frame for contrast and sharpness.