Eduard Albert "Billy" Meier: Are his films hoaxes also? Look and decide.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Let's not forget the Deadly Laser Gun...!

PS: I haven't kept up with recent ufology, but is there anything NEW and FRESH these days since the whole TTSA farce collapsed? Or is that a silly question?

Or the oldy the forced perspective of Darby O'Gill and the Little People.

The frame does not show forced perspective, it shows "simple" Hollywood special optical effect.

a reply to: idusmartias

It's well known that Darby O'Gill and the Little People used forced perspective in their 1959 film.
www.bmovienation.com...

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: idusmartias

It's well known that Darby O'Gill and the Little People used forced perspective in their 1959 film.
www.bmovienation.com...

I was ready to admit defeat but found this explanation that shows we're both right.

www.nfi.edu...#:~:text=Forced%20perspective%20is%20a%20technique,the%20camera%20or%20spectator's%20position.
What Is Forced Perspective?
Forced perspective is a technique that utilizes optical illusions to make objects appear larger, smaller, farther away, or closer than they are. Human visual perception is influenced by observing the relationship between sized items and the camera or spectator’s position.

Filmmakers frequently utilize forced perspective to show fictional realms in which humans are much larger or smaller than other characters. The camera can create unique visual effects in forced perspective photography, allowing humans to interact with objects or other subjects in previously inconceivable ways. One individual stepping on the Eiffel Tower is an illustration of this.

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Arbi….go to min 49:19 of the vid I previously posted….it’s about the frame you re-posted from the OP in your post.

👽🛸🍺

Thanks for bringing in the cavalry! Actually, 49:28 is a better view as it is the normal view. 49:19 is a closeup of 49:28.

Yeah….my bad…I should have written to start viewing at 49:19 and continue watching….

👽🛸🍻

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Arbi….go to min 49:19 of the vid I previously posted….it’s about the frame you re-posted from the OP in your post.

👽🛸🍺

Thanks for bringing in the cavalry! Actually, 49:28 is a better view as it is the normal view. 49:19 is a closeup of 49:28.

Yeah….my bad…I should have written to start viewing at 49:19 and continue watching….

👽🛸🍻

I still appreciate your contribution. I'm waiting for the Meier footage on DVD to arrive and I hope the tree scene has more detail than YouTube videos. If the quality of the DVD is superior to the original videotape I'll be pleased but I'm sorry I won't be able to show it here, only describe it.

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: idusmartias

Where did they go? ……beats me.

As for "The Talmud Of Jmmanuel" …. I bought this book a long long time ago…to go along with other Jesus Survived The Cross books in my modest Theology/Esoteric/UFO library

👽🛸🤓🍺

One of the books shown in your photo is "The Crucifixion, by an Eye-witness ..." could cause me to laugh so hard I could bust a gut!

It’s a quick read….

Here it is….

iapsop.com...

This particular book deals with the notion that when JC was hung on a piece of wood, if you like to think in those terms……once placed in the tomb, in a near death state, he was saved by Nicodemus who is said to have also been a physician and Joseph of Arimathea and nursed JC back to some health long enough to appear to his disciples but then later to succumb to his spear wound in his side and finally died. He is said to be buried by the Dead Sea.

It’s an interesting take, if you don’t believe that a physical body could just disappear, de-materialize… into a white cloud (air)

A side note….it is written that when JC was pieced by the spear in his side to check if he was dead….that out flowed water/blood….. If I’m not mistaken……if the water/blood is flowing….the heart is pumping and not dead.

👽🛸🍺🤓

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: idusmartias

Where did they go? ……beats me.

As for "The Talmud Of Jmmanuel" …. I bought this book a long long time ago…to go along with other Jesus Survived The Cross books in my modest Theology/Esoteric/UFO library

👽🛸🤓🍺

One of the books shown in your photo is "The Crucifixion, by an Eye-witness ..." could cause me to laugh so hard I could bust a gut!

It’s a quick read….

Here it is….

iapsop.com...

This particular book deals with the notion that when JC was hung on a piece of wood, if you like to think in those terms……once placed in the tomb, in a near death state, he was saved by Nicodemus who is said to have also been a physician and Joseph of Arimathea and nursed JC back to some health long enough to appear to his disciples but then later to succumb to his spear wound in his side and finally died. He is said to be buried by the Dead Sea.

It’s an interesting take, if you don’t believe that a physical body could just disappear, de-materialize… into a white cloud (air)

👽🛸🍺🤓

First, to reiterate, it's impossible for me to believe. I'm an accepter, never a believer 'cause I know how belief systems are created and I was never a candidate. Now, as to your last sentence. There was never a physical body. Jesus Christ (it's proper to say Jesus the Christ which is a title, the anointed one, is not a last name and Jesus is a construct. If your life depended on it, you could never find any reliable historical evidence for his reality. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in the Qunram caves, the catholic church started licking its gums becaure they assumed that the scrolls would mention Jesus and the catholic church controlled the research and dissemination of what the scrolls contained. Oh boy, were they disappointed when the scrolls did not mention even one iota of anything or anyone connected to the mythical Jesus. However, old habits die hard and the History Channel, and others, have not given up and they still show documentaries where the lie is kept alive. No sir, no Jesus.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Can't find the article now but recall some research that showed the beamship over the tree always moved in an arc from a fixed point i.e. it was swinging on a string.

a reply to: idusmartias

There are no references to Jesus because the Qumran scrolls were written by the Essenes in Jesus time, not after. Actually, there are no references to Jesus at all in any document of the time. You usually write about the miracles and wonders of a guy once the guy is dead. The Apostles wrote the New Testament after Jesus' death, not before.

But anyway, you can take a different approach to your Mr. Meier's photographs. You can adopt the reductio ad absurdum approach, that is: let's assume the pics show real objects (UFOs). Were that the case, you need to explain how is it that only Mr. Meier and his close circle showed the objects. Nodody else did, no reports about UFO sightings exist for those UFOs.

In fact, one of the photographs you posted clearly shows an alleged UFO perfectly visible hovering over a valley on a clear day, and you can see houses and farms, yet nobody reported seeing anything abnormal. Switzerland makes a very bad place for UFOs. The place is (and was) overcrowded, so chances for a UFO to be seen by a lot of people is high. Actually, Central Europe is a very bad place for UFO sighting in desolate areas because there are hardly any desolate area. Worse, nearly 25% of Switzerland's area is unproductive, which means it is unsuitable for settlements, farming or other basic human uses, so no witnesses.

The question then reduces to whether there were UFO sightings whatsoever of Mr. Meier's UFOs reported by people other than Mr. Meier and his followers. The answer is no.

As a side note, late in his life astronaut Gordon Cooper backed the authenticity of Meier's photos, it's on video on youtube. I suspect this tells us more about Cooper's mental state, than about Meier.

a reply to: idusmartias

….” There was never a physical body.”……
….” No sir, no Jesus.“…

If this is true for you…then there is no God since God has no physical body…unless you can attest to its existence with proof.

So then you fit a classic definition of an Atheist:

….” a·the·ist
/ˈāTHēəst/
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."he is a committed atheist"…..

And that’s OK 👍🏼

I prefer to Believe.

A couple of books that may feed your Atheism, if interested….



Back to Billy…

👽🛸☕️🍩

originally posted by: Spacespider
a reply to: idusmartias

I think with the Meier case, I think a few of those are real and when the hype stopped he missed all the attention so he started to make fake props and made up stories.

Yes.

This is what I believe also.

And if you ever meet Michael Horn, he's a bit strange.

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Can't find the article now but recall some research that showed the beamship over the tree always moved in an arc from a fixed point i.e. it was swinging on a string.

Yes, and shockingly, idusmartias leads his OP with the first two screenshots showing what is obviously a model doing exactly that. It was reported in The Encyclopedia of Skepticism and the Paranormal:

The Most Important UFO Documentary You Will Ever See.

from The Encyclopedia of Skepticism and the Paranormal

Billy Meier's story has prompted a great deal of research into his claims, both by skeptics and those within the UFO community who expected to confirm his reports. What was discovered is that the Billy Meier story actually represents the biggest UFO hoax in history. Upon close examination it was discovered that not one of his alleged photographs were original prints, but all had been airbrushed or otherwise altered.

Models of some of the spacecraft seen in his photo's were found in his house. In one video of an alleged flying saucer, the spacecraft can clearly be seen to be swinging pendulum style as if it were suspended by a wire. The photograph of an alleged Pleiadian alien was discovered to be a photocopy of a model taken from a Sears Catalog. Under close scrutiny, all of Billy Meier's alleged evidence has been shown to be false.

Yet, Billy Meier's claims survived for many years within the UFO community, being touted as the best evidence for the reality of alien visitation. There are still those who will not admit the entire case is a complete fraud.

originally posted by: idusmartias
I don't need lessons in perspective illusions I mentioned that I got into photography in 1955. Where were you?

I wasn't botn yet in 1955 but yes you obviously need lessons on perspective photography since you don't recongize it when you see it, or maybe you recognize some examples but not other examples like the image you are saying is from a realistic video...it's not, it's one of the worst fakes I've ever seen and it swings just like a model on a string, and there's no evidence it's above the tree, since a forced perspective illusion is just as it says, an illusion.

It's really odd that you start a thread wanting to discuss Meier's videos, yet you don't post a link to a single video. In the other thread you admit some Meier stuff is fake but you think some is not fake, so your reply to me asking me to go search for a video when I ask you about a link doesn't seem logically consistent with your position that you admit some is fake. If I just go searching and post evidence of a fake, you can say "oh that's one I already thought was fake". I wanted a link to one you thought was real, but I think I found the video in your second screenshot, that you think is more convincing with the wider perspective.

Here is the video on youtube:

Rediscovered reel of Super8 film footage shot by Eduard "Billy" Meier in 1975 (original 2.8K scan)


It behaves just like a model on a string or wire. From 20 seconds to 23 seconds, its swinging partly to the right, and partly away from the camera, forming an arc and the orientation of the model changes as if there's a wire attached to it, so we see the bottom of the model at 20s and the top of the model at 23s, as it swings away from the camera ( and partly to the right). This composite image shows several positions of the model as they appear from 20s to 23s, so it's just as The Encyclopedia of Skepticism and the Paranormal says, it "can clearly be seen to be swinging pendulum style as if it were suspended by a wire", no Paul Bunyan needed as you claim, which you will find out after taking your lessons on forced perspective illusions.



Also in the first few seconds it's wobbling about its own center of mass just like a model on a string would do, it's really terrible fake footage, some of the worst I've seen.

a reply to: Annee

Yeah, I was going to mention Horn. He is a weird guy. Maybe the aliens gave him to Meier. He sure looks and acts the part.
(I'm being facetious of course.)

One thing I noticed once.

If you look at the average crowd anywhere in the world, you'll see some weird-looking people often.

But Horn is a strange character whoever he's from!

originally posted by: Spacespider
a reply to: idusmartias

I think with the Meier case, I think a few of those are real and when the hype stopped he missed all the attention so he started to make fake props and made up stories.

Something fun about that dinosaur image is that Ecco the Dolphin also uses that illustrated pteronodon.



Anyway I don't really find the guy compelling after such proof of his deliberate hoaxes.

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Can't find the article now but recall some research that showed the beamship over the tree always moved in an arc from a fixed point i.e. it was swinging on a string.

You need to look at the footage on videos shown on YouTub. The footage shows the UFO doing all sorts of acrobatics including standing still, swinging to and fro, left and right, slowing to a stop. You said " it was swinging on a string." therefore you have to provide evidence.

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: idusmartias

There are no references to Jesus because the Qumran scrolls were written by the Essenes in Jesus time, not after. Actually, there are no references to Jesus at all in any document of the time. You usually write about the miracles and wonders of a guy once the guy is dead. The Apostles wrote the New Testament after Jesus' death, not before.

idusmartias: "I'm not a scholar but the proof is in the pudding. No one wrote myths. He is alleged to have apostles. Not one of them wrote anything down for posterity and there were no scribes of record documenting anything. When Jesus was alone, who could have heard his thoughts and yet the new testament is full of quotes that no one uttered. And no archaeologist worth his salt and go on record and say that there is historical evidence to support any claim made about Jesus, his apostles or the alleged events. The "evidence" that is quoted fails to convince. The apostles wrote nothing and they are not recognized outside of the new testament. IOW, mythology."

But anyway, you can take a different approach to your Mr. Meier's photographs. You can adopt the reductio ad absurdum approach, that is: let's assume the pics show real objects (UFOs). Were that the case, you need to explain how is it that only Mr. Meier and his close circle showed the objects. Nodody else did, no reports about UFO sightings exist for those UFOs.

idusmartias: "If you do even basic research you'll find that more than his close circle (imagined) reported and photographed UFOs in that area of Switzerland. Look at the video linked in another reply and listen to them."

In fact, one of the photographs you posted clearly shows an alleged UFO perfectly visible hovering over a valley on a clear day, and you can see houses and farms, yet nobody reported seeing anything abnormal. Switzerland makes a very bad place for UFOs. The place is (and was) overcrowded, so chances for a UFO to be seen by a lot of people is high. Actually, Central Europe is a very bad place for UFO sighting in desolate areas because there are hardly any desolate area. Worse, nearly 25% of Switzerland's area is unproductive, which means it is unsuitable for settlements, farming or other basic human uses, so no witnesses.

idusmartias: " I just saw a repeat of UFO footage on "Paranormal Caught On Camera" where the guy using his cellphone to record the group of UFOs kept shouting "Isn't anyone else seeing this?" The by now millions of sightings are usually reported by one individual and rarely by a crowd with the exception of some Mexican sightings. My sightings didn't draw crowds. Don't make yourself an authority where what you say is questionable."

The question then reduces to whether there were UFO sightings whatsoever of Mr. Meier's UFOs reported by people other than Mr. Meier and his followers. The answer is no.

idusmartias: "You are wrong, the answer is yes."

originally posted by: JimOberg
As a side note, late in his life astronaut Gordon Cooper backed the authenticity of Meier's photos, it's on video on youtube. I suspect this tells us more about Cooper's mental state, than about Meier.

You don't say how Cooper backed up his statements. Can you quote him or provide a link to an article? Does Cooper say that he did any research on Meier's photos or that he met Meier, etc. Your criticism of Cooper's mental state is unfair because you don't detail what you mean even though your details could be correct. And what about Meier's? Can you shed light on anything unusual about Meier's mental state? He looks coherent to me, regardless of his narrative. Please be specific and remember his accomplishments - Wikipedia:
"Leroy Gordon "Gordo" Cooper Jr. was an American aerospace engineer, test pilot, United States Air Force pilot, and the youngest of the seven original astronauts in Project Mercury, the first human space program of the United States."

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: idusmartias

….” There was never a physical body.”……
….” No sir, no Jesus.“…

If this is true for you…then there is no God since God has no physical body…unless you can attest to its existence with proof.

So then you fit a classic definition of an Atheist:

….” a·the·ist
/ˈāTHēəst/
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."he is a committed atheist"…..

And that’s OK 👍🏼

I prefer to Believe.

A couple of books that may feed your Atheism, if interested….

Back to Billy…

👽🛸☕️🍩

I understand you because I learned early on what makes humans believers. It's not rocket science. I've stated I'm a die-hard atheist because I've educated myself about religions. I was born into a catholic, god-fearing family on both my father and mother's side. I could never accept what I saw and heard in the cathedrals I went to, never sunk in. Hypnotism taught me how the mind works. Mental conditioning is the culprit. Gullible, non-questioning minds, are mental conditioning's favority food. What I can't, sort of, understand is how highly or just plain educated people have religious belief systems. There have never been gods. What happened to the gods of the Greeks, Roman, Italian, Spanish, Australian, Eskimo, Africans, etc.? Certainly a lot of valid gods to them but no sign of one. The Judeo god, later joined to the Christian, lasts because it is a god of fear responsible for all of the strife on planet earth. Fear replaces common sense. I still have mine.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I cannot give you the respect you deserve because your replies lack logic and common sense and don't make you sound as if you know what you're talking about.