Why are atheist so angry with God?

originally posted by: GoShredAK
He says my people perish from a lack of knowledge......makes a lot of sense......

Does it?

The bible says Adam and Eve sought that knowledge and it was their damnation.

You contradicted yourself while trying to argue the opposite.

You are not coming from a position of knowledge but from one of blindly believing what you have been led to believe. Even the agnostics are one up on you because they admit they don't know the intent of god, while you take to heart what some men have said his intent is.

Also we gotta remember....God's ways are not our ways........

Why not?

You just said in your last post "that knowledge is built into our DNA" so why wouldn't our ways be similar to your god's, if that is even remotely true?

a reply to: Annee

You said:

I too believe in energy intelligence -- not necessarily one main one. I consider myself atheist.

Why couldn't this energy intelligence you speak of be God? Does this energy intelligence also love? Does this energy intelligence also have or know about laws?

I ask that because on another platform an atheist asked why does God send good people to hell and I asked them what are good people and I heard nothing back. Here's a video of a woman who was born an atheist who eventually became a Christian by simply asking herself why am I a good person.



So without Divine law and an intelligence as you speak of, there isn't any good people. There isn't any good law or bad law. Atheist Richard Dawkins said in a debate that Darwinian evolution wouldn't be a good model for governments. Why wouldn't it be? If the majority of people think killing of all of the sick people is good for their society, why isn't it good?

Tomorrow, if the government said they were taking away freedom of speech, what would atheist say? Part of the ideal behind America is that certain rights come from our Creator and can't be taken away by government.

If you're an atheist that doesn't believe in a Creator, then the government giveth and the government can taketh away. You may think it's wrong but that's just a subjective opinion. The government has the final call not the Creator. So if there's nothing greater than governments then you have no rights as a human being outside of what a collective of government officials give you.

If this intelligence you speak of does know about law and justice don't you see why we would need Jesus Christ? We would all be transgressors of Divine law and are good works wouldn't be enough for us to escape justice which is punishment for transgressing the law.

If a person says to an atheist, I give money to charity, I'm a good neighbor, I take care of my family, I work hard and I eat healthy but, I like to kill from time to time and I only kill people who are homeless or who are prostitutes, why am I not a good person? How would an atheist respond?

The Bible says there isn't a good person. It says are good works are like filthy rags. So Jesus, through the Grace of God paid the penalty for us.

So basically I'm asking, does this energy intelligence you speak of know about and agree with Divine law?

a reply to: neoholographic
The intelligent energy is being what is.

It is being everything that is existent.

It does not have to know about or agree with Divine law......it is the Divine..... there isn't anything other.

What is is.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

First off, how do you know? I was responding to a comment Anne made.

Secondly, how can this energy be intelligent if it doesn't know what law is?

a reply to: neoholographic
It's all powerful..... it's being all that is.

It's being (what) is appearing as life.....the ever present one.
🎁

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: cooperton

No, it doesn't do that at all. (evolution)

That is you projecting.

With all due respect, people can find meaning in existence, without believing in a higher power. Be it yours, or whoever's. With or without believing in Evolution.

No hopelessness, no nihilism.

If the brain produces consciousness, then once the brain decomposes all of our memories and self-awareness are permanently erased forever, and enduring nothingness ensues for each individual for all of eternity



(thankfully this is not the case)

originally posted by: daskakik

Do you know that this is from the gospel of Thomas?

I knew there was a reason why it didn't sound familiar to me, it isn't actually a canonical book of the bible. I had not read it but I did last night and know I know why it isn't.

Besides the fact that a group of people decided what to include and exclude pretty much shows the warning about adding and taking away from the word didn't work, making the whole thing unreliable.

Here you are quoting something outside the bible which contains things like this:

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

That quote is likely referring to the vast inequality of men and women at the time. Peter brings up the age old prejudices against women, and Jesus corrects Him saying that women can be just as prolific as men. Imagine the squandered female spirit back in those days all around the world... but now a chance for all to attain to life without prejudice (Galatians 3:26-28).

There's also likely a depth to spiritology that we just don't understand the context to. It sounds a lot like ancient alchemy, and the star of David that consists of male and female triangles. Males pointing upwards, females pointing downwards, the balancing of the forces, etc.

originally posted by: daskakik

You are not coming from a position of knowledge but from one of blindly believing what you have been led to believe.

Literally every believer in evolution is exactly this. No evolutionist has never observed a population of organisms evolve into something distinctly new. Yet you all believe it. So stop with this.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Why can't you be more supportive outside your echo chamber of self righteousness. It's not a question, it's a recommendation about how to be less cultist and more spiritual.

Why can't you be more supportive outside your echo chamber of self righteousness. It's not a question, it's a recommendation about how to be less cultist and more spiritual.

originally posted by: Joecroft
"I think it is more than just Jews/Christians that have historically, and currently, worship the Most High God."

That’s a pretty unique Christian view

Nah I think it should be normal among Christians to consider that people's souls can peacefully transcend into the impending extra-dimensional existence without ever having read the Bible. Abraham never had a Bible, yet he knew Jesus personally (John 8:56). Does anyone actually think that God was desperately waiting on the printing press to send Bibles throughout the world to allow people to know Him?? No way.

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Corinthians 3:6

Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" knows Christ. Instead, it is the pure of heart that will see God. That includes people in the far reaches of the African wilderness who have never read a Bible.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Annee

You said:

I too believe in energy intelligence -- not necessarily one main one. I consider myself atheist.

Why couldn't this energy intelligence you speak of be God? Does this energy intelligence also love? Does this energy intelligence also have or know about laws?

I ask that because on another platform an atheist asked why does God send good people to hell and I asked them what are good people and I heard nothing back. Here's a video of a woman who was born an atheist who eventually became a Christian by simply asking herself why am I a good person.

So without Divine law and an intelligence as you speak of, there isn't any good people. There isn't any good law or bad law. Atheist Richard Dawkins said in a debate that Darwinian evolution wouldn't be a good model for governments. Why wouldn't it be? If the majority of people think killing of all of the sick people is good for their society, why isn't it good?

Tomorrow, if the government said they were taking away freedom of speech, what would atheist say? Part of the ideal behind America is that certain rights come from our Creator and can't be taken away by government.

If you're an atheist that doesn't believe in a Creator, then the government giveth and the government can taketh away. You may think it's wrong but that's just a subjective opinion. The government has the final call not the Creator. So if there's nothing greater than governments then you have no rights as a human being outside of what a collective of government officials give you.

If this intelligence you speak of does know about law and justice don't you see why we would need Jesus Christ? We would all be transgressors of Divine law and are good works wouldn't be enough for us to escape justice which is punishment for transgressing the law.

If a person says to an atheist, I give money to charity, I'm a good neighbor, I take care of my family, I work hard and I eat healthy but, I like to kill from time to time and I only kill people who are homeless or who are prostitutes, why am I not a good person? How would an atheist respond?

The Bible says there isn't a good person. It says are good works are like filthy rags. So Jesus, through the Grace of God paid the penalty for us.

So basically I'm asking, does this energy intelligence you speak of know about and agree with Divine law?

God, religion is man made.

Energy evolving with consciousness would be science.

originally posted by: cooperton
That quote is likely referring to the vast inequality of men and women at the time.

Have you read the gospel of Thomas or any of the gnostic books?

The reason they were not included in the bible is because they paint a picture of Jesus as a man with secret knowledge and not necessarily the son of god.

Literally every believer in evolution is exactly this. No evolutionist has never observed a population of organisms evolve into something distinctly new. Yet you all believe it. So stop with this.

Them to, what am I supposed to stop?

originally posted by: daskakik

Have you read the gospel of Thomas or any of the gnostic books?

The reason they were not included in the bible is because they paint a picture of Jesus as a man with secret knowledge and not necessarily the son of god.

I have read all the Gnostic literature that I know of, most of them multiple times. They do proclaim Jesus as the son of God, and goes into more detail about how we all are children of God(which is also professed in the regular Gospels). Thomas 50 shows my point.

I think the main reason they were excluded is because they don't mention the resurrection. Which maybe the writers were just like, 'Matthew Mark Luke and John already covered it extensively, no need for us to reiterate'.

There are some tough verses in the gnostic texts for sure, but there's also tough verses in the Orthodox Gospel.

Them too, what am I supposed to stop?

Lol I guess we all have to stop the finger pointing. I assume we're all honestly trying to discover the truth and meaning of our existence

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Why can't you be more supportive outside your echo chamber of self righteousness. It's not a question, it's a recommendation about how to be less cultist and more spiritual.

Why can't you be more supportive outside your echo chamber of self righteousness. It's not a question, it's a recommendation about how to be less cultist and more spiritual.

You don't see my copious repetitive threads whinging about society's attachment to dogmatic superstition.

a reply to: cooperton
I guess you read them with a bit of bias. There are things in them, at least in the gospel of Thomas, that contradict the basic premise of the bible.

(13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

Here is another mentioning androgyny and explaining how to get into heaven. You will notice it doesn't say that you have to accept Jesus as the messiah.

(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

a reply to: cooperton

Puts meaning into the saying, live every moment like it is your last.

a reply to: GoShredAK

There are holes. I will poke them.

I will play with them like the scabs they are.

Conclusions made from diving deeper depend on the person.

Been there, tried that. You know what I got? Silence.

Maybe you're the other type though, I don't know.

Don't care either. If you want to believe in something that gives you strength, whether or not it makes any sense to the rest of us, more power to you.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
I guess you read them with a bit of bias. There are things in them, at least in the gospel of Thomas, that contradict the basic premise of the bible.

13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

It's always the craziest tangents with you. Not necessarily a bad thing. But man do you literally disagree with everything I think? what are the odds?

Anyway, I like this translation:

"I am no longer thy master; for thou hast drunk, thou art inebriated from the bubbling spring which is mine and which I sent forth."

So essentially He is saying He no longer needs to teach them because they themselves are being fed the same sustenance Christ was. Thomas's answer was correct when he said he is entirely incapable of describing with words what the True nature of Jesus is.

Here is another mentioning androgyny and explaining how to get into heaven. You will notice it doesn't say that you have to accept Jesus as the messiah.
22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

He says in the Orthodox Gospels that it is people who are like children who will enter the Kingdom. So yeah this passage is a match to the Orthodox Gospels, and the latter part is essentially the same as Galatians 3:28.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

You don't see my copious repetitive threads whinging about society's attachment to dogmatic superstition.

I see your responses in all of them though. Face it, you two are mirrors for eachother.

a reply to: cooperton
I did that on purpose to show that unless something is highlighted you gloss over it. What could have Jesus said to Thomas, which by the way is said to be his twin brother, didn't see that in the bible, that would cause the others to try to stone him?

The other verse is not like Galatians 3:28. That is you trying to make it fit. "...so that the male not be male nor the female" is talking about a single person no longer being male or female and it ties perfectly with the verse I posted before about making Mary a male. It isn't about gender equality because he doesn't tell Simon Peter he is wrong and women can enter the kingdom of heaven, he says he is going to change that one person from female to male so that she can enter.

The only thing you can take from that is that women are not allowed in the kingdom of heaven. That would have put a monkey-wrench in the spreading of the word and so the book was left out. It doesn't take much to see this.

ETA: Oh yeah, and the thing missing from the requirements to get into the kingdom of heaven is accepting Jesus as your savior, while the NT says over and over it is the only way.

a reply to: cooperton

Originally posted by cooperton
I think it is more than just Jews/Christians that have historically, and currently, worship the Most High God. Christ so happens to be the firstborn of that Apex God.

Originally posted by Joecroft
That’s a pretty unique Christian view…as most Christians don’t accept that Muslim’s or even Jews are following the God of Christianity…not sure what other belief systems you have in mind… Zoroastrianism perhaps…

Originally posted by cooperton
Nah I think it should be normal among Christians to consider that people's souls can peacefully transcend into the impending extra-dimensional existence without ever having read the Bible.

If that’s what you believe, then why would you be bringing up “Pascals Wager” in this post…it makes zero sense…

This is getting weirder and weirder…

Originally posted by cooperton
Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" knows Christ. Instead, it is the pure of heart that will see God. That includes people in the far reaches of the African wilderness who have never read a Bible.

So again, why bring up “Pascals Wager” if the above is what you believe in…

You do realize that by believing in re-incarnation and what you’ve stated above… that most Christians wont even classify you as a Christian…they might even view you as the Atheist! lol

- JC

originally posted by: daskakik
ETA: Oh yeah, and the thing missing from the requirements to get into the kingdom of heaven is accepting Jesus as your savior, while the NT says over and over it is the only way.

God damn... Guess when I die I still won't see some of the cool old school bands.

I wonder if there is a corner of heaven for previous believers like me, that gave their heart to Christ, once upon a time.

Maybe Saint Peter can give me a refund at the gate.