LDNR - free subjects of international law

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I'm saying that it is a bit hypocritical for the West to support certain breakaway regions right self-governance while ignoring others. Just like it is hypocritical for Russia to refuse to acknowledge certain breakaway regions right to self-governance while legitimizing others.

Now, obviously, not all these incidents are exactly the same. For example, Kosovo's independence didn't come until after a bloody war that saw its parent country cease to exist and then years spent negotiating a plan that would try to make all parties happy.

Donetsk and Luhansk on the other hand voted for their independence in a shady referendum that a former leader of the separatists has since admitted was done at the barrel of a gun.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I'm saying that it is a bit hypocritical for the West to support certain breakaway regions right self-governance while ignoring others. Just like it is hypocritical for Russia to refuse to acknowledge certain breakaway regions right to self-governance while legitimizing others.

Now, obviously, not all these incidents are exactly the same. For example, Kosovo's independence didn't come until after a bloody war that saw its parent country cease to exist and then years spent negotiating a plan that would try to make all parties happy.

Donetsk and Luhansk on the other hand voted for their independence in a shady referendum that a former leader of the separatists has since admitted was done at the barrel of a gun.

I do not believe you. TAIWAN. KOSOVO,

a reply to: Freeborn

The media is hesitantly reporting that these people do not seem to be upset over having independence.

a reply to: RussianTroll

In 1914, the Austro-Hungarian Empire on the territory of the western regions of the Russian Empire, present-day western Ukraine, created the Talerhof concentration camp (German: Interniertenlager Thalerhof), which operated for 3 years. The local Russian population was driven there and people were given a choice: either they and their families are recorded in the documents as "Ukrainians" and renounce Orthodoxy, or death to them and their families, including children. A lot of people agreed to become "Ukrainians". And so "Ukraine" appeared, as a result of the genocide of Russian people.

Aye, I do appreciate the correction.

Such a tragic world these scumbag banksters have created. When I was younger I was fortunate enough to read The Creature from Jekyll Island. How the creation of the Federal Reserve was used to wage WW1 against Czar Nicholas.

It gave me a powerful overview of the crimes the banksters initiated against the Russians, but I had not heard of Talerhof until now. May justice be dealt swiftly to each and everyone of these heinous monsters.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion or has someone - namely Putin - expressed their opinion for them?

Are the people of Luhansk and Donetsk going to have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to remain in the Ukraine, become independent nations in their own right or be integrated into Russia?

All I see at present is people wanting to enforce and impose themselves.

The referendum on independence from Ukraine was freely held by residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics back in May 2014. Moreover, the residents of these republics, which are now in the territory occupied by Ukraine, also took part in the referendum. The result is 89% FOR.

Was there a nationwide referendum during the unification of Germany, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the proclaiming of Kosovo, etc.? NO.

Thank you for emphasizing this point.

Eastern Ukrainians have been under attack from the agents of Soro's coup back in 2014, the civil war was manufactured and it is long past due these people have protection from these BS color revolutions.

Totally spot on and listening to people ringing in to Radio " in the UK today many people now see through the western MSM BS and understand the situation from Putin's point of view

Just a little coincidental how the coup happened straight after Ukraine pivoted back towards Moscow and wanted to free itself of all the European Union BS.

Ukraine is a puppet state governed by the western hidden hand and is being supplied with weaponry to aim at Russians. If I was Putin it's now or never and there's nothing like the present if you don't want NATO on your borders.

I could not possibly agree more.

I would also add that I think we are seeing a convergence of white hat activity from around the world and Putin making this move is an overt signal that the globalist scum have lost power.

It is fantastic to hear that people are seeing through the lies. It will only increase and I have no fear of a wider conflict.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Thalerhof is considered the first concentration camp in Europe. If Jews were exterminated there, he would be very famous. But Russians, Rusyns and Slavs (Orthodox) were destroyed there, so little is known about him, unfortunately ((((
Thanks.

a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion

The people of Ukraine don't have to express their opinion- Biden, NATO and the UN are speaking for them. Even Zelensky asked Biden to stop his ridiculous rhetoric.

a reply to: RussianTroll

What don't you believe?

I mentioned Kosovo in my post.

Meanwhile, Taiwan is a completely different beast and definitely is not relevant to the conversation.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: RussianTroll

What don't you believe?

I mentioned Kosovo in my post.

Meanwhile, Taiwan is a completely different beast and definitely is not relevant to the conversation.

well, yes)))

When such double standards are applied, the Russians say with irony: "This is different"))))))

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Remember how attempts to conquer Russia ALWAYS ended.

No, but i DO remember how the attempt to dissolve the USSR went, and the Russian people became POOR, were lucky to have electricity and running water, and more than half didn't / couldn't work.

Russia is nothing but a huge filling station, without that, they are insignificant.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Remember how attempts to conquer Russia ALWAYS ended.

No, but i DO remember how the attempt to dissolve the USSR went, and the Russian people became POOR, were lucky to have electricity and running water, and more than half didn't / couldn't work.

Russia is nothing but a huge filling station, without that, they are insignificant.

The same was said about the USA in the USSR before its collapse. You are following the old well-known path of the death of empires))))

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Remember how attempts to conquer Russia ALWAYS ended.

No, but i DO remember how the attempt to dissolve the USSR went, and the Russian people became POOR, were lucky to have electricity and running water, and more than half didn't / couldn't work.

Russia is nothing but a huge filling station, without that, they are insignificant.

The same was said about the USA in the USSR before its collapse. You are following the old well-known path of the death of empires))))

Im not following anything but history.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Remember how attempts to conquer Russia ALWAYS ended.

No, but i DO remember how the attempt to dissolve the USSR went, and the Russian people became POOR, were lucky to have electricity and running water, and more than half didn't / couldn't work.

Russia is nothing but a huge filling station, without that, they are insignificant.

The same was said about the USA in the USSR before its collapse. You are following the old well-known path of the death of empires))))

Im not following anything but history.

And this is the story. He who does not know the past has no future.

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: RussianTroll

Love that Putin played O'Canada on a piano before metting with XI!

Priceless

That looked very much dubbed, look ay his finger movements closer

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Remember how attempts to conquer Russia ALWAYS ended.

No, but i DO remember how the attempt to dissolve the USSR went, and the Russian people became POOR, were lucky to have electricity and running water, and more than half didn't / couldn't work.

Russia is nothing but a huge filling station, without that, they are insignificant.

The same was said about the USA in the USSR before its collapse. You are following the old well-known path of the death of empires))))

Im not following anything but history.

And this is the story. He who does not know the past has no future.

Right.

And you know what the past says? As far back as 1990? Via Gorbachev, that there was never any formal agreement by NATO that any eastward shift could not take place....that the only formality was on the GDR behalf. Which, in case you've forgotten, is the impetus upon which Russia is claiming there can be no diplomacy.

a reply to: alphabetaone

I don't know where you get such nonsense from. 2 days ago, Spiegel magazine published documents in which there are written guarantees from the West not to expand NATO to the East. I, a Russian, read Spiegel in the original. But you, unfortunately, do not read)))

a reply to: RussianTroll

Taiwan is completely different. From 1895 to 1945 Taiwan was owned by Japan. Following WWII, stewardship of the island was handed over to Chiang Kai-shek's Republic of China.

China then underwent a civil war that saw the leadership of the Republic of China flee mainland China to Taiwan in 1950, while Mao established the People's Republic of China on the mainland.

Then in 1952, with the signing of the Treaty of San Francisco, Japan relinquished their claim to Taiwan while not naming who now owned the island. Depending on some interpretations of the Treaty of Taipei, Japan then ceded control of the island to the ROC.

Regardless, the ROC has held control of the island for almost 80 years and has been in ROC hands since Japan relinquished ownership of it.

So, as you can see, it's a completely different situation than what's going on in Ukraine.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: RussianTroll

Taiwan is completely different. From 1895 to 1945 Taiwan was owned by Japan. Following WWII, stewardship of the island was handed over to Chiang Kai-shek's Republic of China.

China then underwent a civil war that saw the leadership of the Republic of China flee mainland China to Taiwan in 1950, while Mao established the People's Republic of China on the mainland.

Then in 1952, with the signing of the Treaty of San Francisco, Japan relinquished their claim to Taiwan while not naming who now owned the island. Depending on some interpretations of the Treaty of Taipei, Japan then ceded control of the island to the ROC.

Regardless, the ROC has held control of the island for almost 80 years and has been in ROC hands since Japan relinquished ownership of it.

So, as you can see, it's a completely different situation than what's going on in Ukraine.

Let's talk in terms of history, proposed by you, about the history of the Crimea, Ukraine and other Russian lands? With pleasure. Please note that this is what you suggested.

To begin with, I, like an old antiquarian, will buy from you for any money any coin, banknote, postage stamp, any document before 1918, where the word "Ukraine" is present))))

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: alphabetaone

I don't know where you get such nonsense from. 2 days ago, Spiegel magazine published documents in which there are written guarantees from the West not to expand NATO to the East. I, a Russian, read Spiegel in the original. But you, unfortunately, do not read)))

RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”

M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.

Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naïve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naïveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.

It seems i do, now go away troll

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion or has someone - namely Putin - expressed their opinion for them?

Are the people of Luhansk and Donetsk going to have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to remain in the Ukraine, become independent nations in their own right or be integrated into Russia?

All I see at present is people wanting to enforce and impose themselves.

The referendum on independence from Ukraine was freely held by residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics back in May 2014. Moreover, the residents of these republics, which are now in the territory occupied by Ukraine, also took part in the referendum. The result is 89% FOR.

Was there a nationwide referendum during the unification of Germany, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the proclaiming of Kosovo, etc.? NO.

Thank you for emphasizing this point.

Eastern Ukrainians have been under attack from the agents of Soro's coup back in 2014, the civil war was manufactured and it is long past due these people have protection from these BS color revolutions.

Totally spot on and listening to people ringing in to Radio " in the UK today many people now see through the western MSM BS and understand the situation from Putin's point of view

Just a little coincidental how the coup happened straight after Ukraine pivoted back towards Moscow and wanted to free itself of all the European Union BS.

Ukraine is a puppet state governed by the western hidden hand and is being supplied with weaponry to aim at Russians. If I was Putin it's now or never and there's nothing like the present if you don't want NATO on your borders.

I could not possibly agree more.

I would also add that I think we are seeing a convergence of white hat activity from around the world and Putin making this move is an overt signal that the globalist scum have lost power.

It is fantastic to hear that people are seeing through the lies. It will only increase and I have no fear of a wider conflict.

Many Brits are seeing through the lies these days thanks to sites like ATS also the other news stations not just the state sponsored propaganda machine the BBC and similar old style newspapers which at one time could manipulate a million blokes to throw their hats in the air and go fight for Queen and country even dying for this honour to go kill and murder an overseas man who they knew nothing about bar the stuff they'd been brainwashed into believing

The West do many good things in this world but when it comes to the way Russia / USSR have been treated since the late 80's they have pushed it too far and pushed Moscow into a corner where it was guaranteed to fight back.

We could have had a real balance of power in this world if a true balance was accepted yet this was all too much for TPTB and they screwed over the FSU with an ambition to pen it in until it was savagely eaten by the West and NATO troops wandering around Moscow.

Moscow could have been brought onside. All it took was a degree of respect to Russia and its aspirations in its domain but this was too much for the nutters at the helm. They wanted complete domination.

When the real clash of civilisations happens, that's the West v China, historians will look back at the amazing mistake of not drawing in Russia and the CSTO into the orbit of the West instead of making it through no real desire of its own a military and economic ally of Beijing.

Total crazy Western madness