LDNR - free subjects of international law

Hello ATS!

I have read forum discussions on the latest developments in Ukraine and its former territories. Unfortunately, none of the members of the forum raised one very important issue. Today, Russia has endowed the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics with international legal personality. This right exists a priori, regardless of the opinion or desire of other countries. For hundreds of years, Western countries have used this right, organizing riots and uprisings on the territory of other countries, instantly creating puppet governments there and recognizing their international legal personality. Another question is how viable the new subjects of international law will be.

Russia today has demonstrated a new geopolitical reality. Human rights, the rights of nations and peoples do not depend on the opinion of Washington, but are given to mankind by the Lord God! And no one else. The opinion of the West remains only a private opinion, but in reality Russia is exercising the rights given to all nations by God.

And one moment. Parallel virtual information reality, which is intensively created by the Western media, instantly falls apart when real events occur, committed by independent free peoples. She turns to dust.
All people are free, you and we. I wish you to break out of dependence and slavery, and remain free people, living freely in their free land according to their free laws.

Thanks.

I think for myself.
I go fishing with bait on my hook to catch fish
I don't want to be the government fish that has hooked me lies that are as high as the sky

a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion or has someone - namely Putin - expressed their opinion for them?

Are the people of Luhansk and Donetsk going to have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to remain in the Ukraine, become independent nations in their own right or be integrated into Russia?

All I see at present is people wanting to enforce and impose themselves.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion or has someone - namely Putin - expressed their opinion for them?

Are the people of Luhansk and Donetsk going to have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to remain in the Ukraine, become independent nations in their own right or be integrated into Russia?

All I see at present is people wanting to enforce and impose themselves.

The referendum on independence from Ukraine was freely held by residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics back in May 2014. Moreover, the residents of these republics, which are now in the territory occupied by Ukraine, also took part in the referendum. The result is 89% FOR.

Was there a nationwide referendum during the unification of Germany, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the proclaiming of Kosovo, etc.? NO.

At the end of the day nations are just social constructs. National boundaries only exist because the majority have agreed they exist. To that fact, DPR and LPR do not exist as their own nations because the world does not recognize them as such.

Just like with Crimea, Russia may have a few rogue nations join with them in recognizing them as sovereign regions. However, not even China will recognize the legitimacy because doing so could come back and bite them in the ass when it comes to things like Tibet.

a reply to: Xcalibur254
You take on a huge responsibility and burden, speaking on behalf of the whole world and the Lord God. Are you sure you can bear this burden?
And what will you start to say when other, today stronger states and nations, will use the same argument against you, your state and your nation?

a reply to: RussianTroll

Just asking.

Did they vote for independence or annexation and integration into Greater Russia?

The Right to Self-Determination tends to be bandied about as and when it suits a particular viewpoint and agenda.
The reality is people are very rarely 'free to choose' in such situations.

The break up of existing states/nations and the emergence of new one's can at times be incredibly popular, other times not so.
But there nearly always tends to be some who don't agree with it, what about their wishes?

Very few things in this world are black and white.

I haven't got a horse in this race and I think that we in the UK, and NATO, should keep the hell out of it.
But that will become increasingly hard if we start seeing bodies in the streets etc.
I've seen enough pointless wars and dead British soldiers in foreign lands in my lifetime.
But just how Putin's 'PEACEKEEPING' force acts will play a major part in how 'The West' reacts.

This could easily spiral out of control and develop into something neither NATO or Russia wants....the onus is now very much on Putin.

a reply to: Freeborn

That some Westerners are condescending towards "other nations", placing their own nation far above others, can be seen as a justification for Nazism and racism.

Yes, Putin took a big burden. But he is now the only political leader in the world on the level of Bismarck, Churchill and Alexander III. The rest are extremely small, stupid and even funny. Such is the reality, alas.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I'm not speaking on behalf of the whole world. I'm using past events to predict how nations will react to current developments. The vast majority of nations do not recognize Russia's annexation of Ukraine. Russia recognizing the legitimacy of DPR and LPR and then moving in to annex them will be met with a similar lack of support on the world stage of not an even greater lack of support.

As a result the world will deem Russia's actions to be illegal and the annexation to be illegitimate.

Will that actually change the reality of Russia holding the land? No, but it will provide justification for sanctions and act as a casus beli if things get that far.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I agree that there is a lack of quality and stature in 'The West's' leaders, and has been for some time now.

I wouldn't put Putin in that class yet.....but I firmly believe that's his aim, his primary driver.
He wants to be remembered in posterity in the same breath as Catherine the Great, Peter The Great, Lenin etc, true giants of Russian history.
He wants to be seen as the man who restored Russia's glory etc.

Its 100% ego driven.

He uses and exploits nationalism to achieve this.

Its that egotistical arrogance that will ultimately be his downfall, as it always is, but at what cost.....?

But until then 'Western' leaders lack the drive, ability and standing to do anything other than run around chasing their collective tail reacting to Putin and his actions rather than being on the front foot.
The combination of 'The West's' incompetence and short sightedness and Putin's arrogance and ambitions of greatness could have dire consequences.

a reply to: Xcalibur254
Legitimacy and right do not depend on anyone's opinion. In Russia and China, for example, the United States and Great Britain are considered outcast countries, and all European states are considered non-sovereign, not free countries. This is also an opinion, just like yours.

about historical events. Remember how attempts to conquer Russia ALWAYS ended. Wise people draw conclusions from historical events. Stupid - every time they step on the same rake, and it hurts))))

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion or has someone - namely Putin - expressed their opinion for them?

Are the people of Luhansk and Donetsk going to have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to remain in the Ukraine, become independent nations in their own right or be integrated into Russia?

All I see at present is people wanting to enforce and impose themselves.

The referendum on independence from Ukraine was freely held by residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics back in May 2014. Moreover, the residents of these republics, which are now in the territory occupied by Ukraine, also took part in the referendum. The result is 89% FOR.

Was there a nationwide referendum during the unification of Germany, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the proclaiming of Kosovo, etc.? NO.

Thank you for emphasizing this point.

Eastern Ukrainians have been under attack from the agents of Soro's coup back in 2014, the civil war was manufactured and it is long past due these people have protection from these BS color revolutions.

a reply to: Freeborn

Your opinion is understandable. For the Russian people, in 20 years Putin brought the country out of their almost complete destruction, introduced the economy into the top 5 world leaders, raised the well-being of people tenfold, created the most powerful and advanced technological army and became a leader in the world. This is reality.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Yes the civil war was manufactured. But by Russia. Don't forget that the people originally leading the separatist movement were Russian officers.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Love that Putin played O'Canada on a piano before metting with XI!

Priceless

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: elementalgrove

Yes the civil war was manufactured. But by Russia. Don't forget that the people originally leading the separatist movement were Russian officers.

The color revolution MO that was implemented in Ukraine, by Soro's agents Obama/Biden is blatantly obvious.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I get that my friend....he's restored some of Russia's self-pride, but he's not quite up there with the true Russian GREAT leaders is he.
In the book of Russian history as it stands he'll be nothing more than two or three paragraphs.
Regain a lot of the land lost after the fall of the Soviet Union, well then he'll have a whole chapter to himself.

He getting old now and he's been in power for over twenty years.....he wants that as his legacy.

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: RussianTroll

But have the people in these areas actually expressed their opinion or has someone - namely Putin - expressed their opinion for them?

Are the people of Luhansk and Donetsk going to have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to remain in the Ukraine, become independent nations in their own right or be integrated into Russia?

All I see at present is people wanting to enforce and impose themselves.

The referendum on independence from Ukraine was freely held by residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics back in May 2014. Moreover, the residents of these republics, which are now in the territory occupied by Ukraine, also took part in the referendum. The result is 89% FOR.

Was there a nationwide referendum during the unification of Germany, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the proclaiming of Kosovo, etc.? NO.

Thank you for emphasizing this point.

Eastern Ukrainians have been under attack from the agents of Soro's coup back in 2014, the civil war was manufactured and it is long past due these people have protection from these BS color revolutions.

Thank you for your opinion. I want to correct you a little. There are no "Eastern Ukrainians", just as there are no ordinary Ukrainians. Let me tell you one story very briefly.

In 1914, the Austro-Hungarian Empire on the territory of the western regions of the Russian Empire, present-day western Ukraine, created the Talerhof concentration camp (German: Interniertenlager Thalerhof), which operated for 3 years. The local Russian population was driven there and people were given a choice: either they and their families are recorded in the documents as "Ukrainians" and renounce Orthodoxy, or death to them and their families, including children. A lot of people agreed to become "Ukrainians". And so "Ukraine" appeared, as a result of the genocide of Russian people.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: elementalgrove

Yes the civil war was manufactured. But by Russia. Don't forget that the people originally leading the separatist movement were Russian officers.

Another fake Western media.

a reply to: RussianTroll

And it's their right to have those opinions. However, until they try to enforce those beliefs through force or are able to convince the rest of the world of their legitimacy, then they're utterly meaningless.