Psilocybin - magic mushrooms as a cure for depression. Can we move on from Prozac et al....?

a reply to: bastion

Those classes sound excellent - I will discuss this further with you by direct message if that's okay? We'd love to get him involved in something like that. I know from my own experience that manual labour, a connection to the soil, etc, has excellent benefits on mental health. Please look out for a dm in the next day or so, and thanks for commenting.

a reply to: RAY1990

You raise some excellent points, and I agree, perhaps the microdosing isn't a good idea at this stage, I know it's got the potential to be an unpleasant experience if we get it wrong. Another poster (Bastion) has described 'back to nature' classes which sound like an excellent way to alleviate some of the problems.

Just to note we've also just heard the news today that he can ditch a college course he was really struggling with, which was causing a great deal of the anxieties underlying the problem, and he's able to replace it with a course in a subject he will much prefer, which is delivered in a semi-practical format (it's BTEC in Law), which will not harm his prospects of going to university (we had previously thought a BTEC wouldn't count, but we are reassured by senior tutor & careers advisors that it's perfectly acceptable, and indeed makes for good copy in the UCAS application). Some of the info I just posted will make no sense to US readers, but basically it's great news that he can continue preparing for college in the subject he's most interested in (medicine) without needing the course which was bogging him down.

So in essence, we're already well on the way to helping him resolve his issues. We set him up with a self-referral for counselling & CBT, which he can explore alongside changes at college & hopefully some good old fashioned outdoors stuff. And we'll be in an excellent position to move to a nicer area soon, and as they say, "A change is as good as a rest"

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Thanks for your comments & concern, your advice is sage & I agree with literally everything you wrote. In terms of diet & exercise, that's something we're broaching as a family, we've decided to buy everything in terms of carbohydrates as wholemeal forms, rather than the processed forms, which promote insulin spikes, which are causative of obesity, fatigue, even diabetes. We've also got him walking the dog for us, getting some fresh air, away from the computer. In tandem with more organised forms of outdoor activities I think this will be a massive help, getting away from the computer screen & the social media.

We've also got him started on reading actual paperback books, action thrillers, comedy - stuff to get him out of his own headspace & into the world of imagination, because the written word, reading for pleasure, in my estimation is one of God's gifts to humanity. It can only be a good thing, and indeed he's already saying that he's really enjoying the first book I curated for him. We've got confidence that although this is a moderately serious form of depression which is manifesting, it can be brought under control by the sorts of actions you guys are suggesting, along with the changes at college/ in long term planning, etc.

The microdosing will be held in reserve in the event that he needs a little bit more help in resolving his inner issues. Apparently the connections between neurons are improed after the use of psilocybin, along with a host of other positive neurological effects - it's in reserve, a possibility at this stage. We're hoping he won't need it, but in my humble opinion it also, is one of God's gifts to humanity, a natural way to do years of therapy within only one or two sessions..

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

No problem man. I can only speak on those things because I've been there. And without getting into it too much, I have tried all of the methods I wrote about.

The tricky things are lifestyle changes take a little while to see a return on investment. And that makes it hard to tweek along the way to focus on the more impactful aspects.

As far as the psilocybin, it's really useful in the sense it helps us identify more material problems. I think it has some benefits as far as chemistry and opening up certain parts of our minds to help us remember wonder and the whimsical part of life, but all of that is secondary to finding more tangible things in our life.

On a bright note, let's focus on some of the positive things that I think we need to remind ourselves when navigating things like this.

- it sounds like he has a wonderful support group. Having people and family who care about us makes us realize we're not alone, and it's good to lean sometimes. Kudos to being open minded on how to search for a level of resolution.

- it sounds like he's willing to work towards a better state. Without this, it's very difficult to get to a better place. Just keep constant patience and reassurance through the process as it takes time.

-lastly and I think most importantly, if you all can get past what is hopefully a learning experience... Dark times make for deep people. This level of introspection and self searching makes for people who are more in tune with the human experience IMO. Tackling something like this when you're young makes you far more apt to handling adversity in the future.

Good luck friend, sounds like you all have the big needs in place to move forward. Just be patient and kind.

Yeah, once a year get high on a magic mushroom that you can grow in your own yard or home. But then the deer and cats and dogs would be high all the time...tripping like crazy and throwing buzz parties. It is bad enough with catnip. I told the wife we should not grow catnip outside because we have cougars or mountain lions here, we do not want them hanging around rolling in our grass in the yard all high.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

It's been my experience, that when stepping thru the doors into Chapel Perilous; best be armed with the sword of faith and the shield of knowledge.

And have an experienced guide because the road to enlightenment can be fraught with unexpected danger especially when the voyager is in a fragile state of mind to begin with.

Be very Careful when taking the advice of internet "experts"....they may be glib and articulate but have no idea of what they are talking about concerning the actual experience.

A single, non-subliminal dose of mushrooms can make a difference. It you want to play it safe do it in a controlled, clinical environment if possible. Micro-dosing is not the same. You won't reap the benefits. Micro-dosing is done for creativity purposes, not healing purposes. Research has shown that it helps depression, PTSD, addiction and other afflictions. YMMV, as always.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

My personal opinion is that if one wants to have maximum positive effect on the mind/brain, is a low to moderate amount, but over micro. One or two times.

Then, if the effect is considered as beneficial or positive, encourage new pathways and patterns in the mind/brain, by taking Lions Mane mushroom for several months.

Lions mane alone too is very effective in fixing neurotic patterns, Maybe start there? If you can get it fresh or grow your own logs, it makes for a delicious noodle wok with a bit of chicken and some vegetables, just dont over cook the fungi, prepare it separately and add when the food is pretty much done.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The results you want to obtain are much more easily achieved through very large "heroic" doses of psilocybin. There is a huge difference between taking a large dose once or twice, VS chronic exposure to mushrooms on a weekly basis. There are reasons to think that chronic exposure may negatively affect your renal and lymphatic systems. Microdosing is getting much too hyped up over what people should practically expect. I would strongly suggest that if your son is going to seek out magic mushrooms, that he should be eating 5+ grams after a small 1.5 gram trial a couple days before.

Magic mushrooms are proven to be safe if taken recreationally. Taken regularly there are many unknowns. If your son was in his 60s or 70s with health problems it would not matter, but at 18 daily exposure to mind altering substances may do more irreversible harm than it does good. I am not denying the benefits of microdosing, I am just pointing out there are real risks and unknowns.

Pulling back the veil of reality and having the classic epiphany that people say changes their lives does NOT happen microdosing, thats a macrodosing effect. I strongly suggest a large dose, then try to figure out 3 or more months later why he would still want to consider microdosing.

Also, if you have any history of mental illness in your family tree anywhere, microdosing will likely bring those things to the surface in day to day life. Large doses are not associated with the same risk of that happening as regular small ones and chronic exposure.

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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I think that the causes of depression are a much more important consideration than the cure. Also when it is your son who is suffering depression, as a parent can we be totally objective and unprejudiced? If he is your only son, then the greatest threat is suicide, which is a total and devastating loss.

From my own personal experience:

Depression is caused by disappointment. Almost every ego enters this world with high hopes. Hopes of success wherefrom in a previous life they experienced failure. Where the perceived odds of becoming the person we want to be diminishes, depression from the disappointments grows. I remember the phrase from an earlier decade - "image is everything" Social media has really reinforced that mantra now and the young developing into adulthood have little inner awareness but greater social awareness of how they relate to the group.

Sexuality and self-image is a big contributor. So is the proliferation of pornography. Frequent masturbation can weaken the mind and body to depression. How does one talk to their own son about such things?

The hardest thing to accept when faced with this challenge is: What if the parents themselves are somehow responsible for their child's depression? Do they radiate an atmosphere of positivity about life? Are the parents themselves depressed without being aware of it and infected their offspring through association. Depression cooked into the food and eaten. Absorbed from voices expressed in the night.

One thing I learned personally about depression is that one isn't aware one is in a state of depression until one is out of it, even temporarily. As it's said, a fish in the water is not aware that it is wet. When the day comes that you see that both your mother and father were both suffering from depression and didn't themselves realise it, you realise that the situation was a lot bigger than just yourself. When you see that most people in the world are being hunted by depression but maybe staying one step ahead of it by being an artful dodger - you say hmmmm.

I guess what I am trying to say is, there is no quick fix. We tend to want to transform the emotionally and mentally unbalanced individual into a state of balance within the context of an unbalanced and neurotic society. The young are quick to pick up on this paradox and hypocrisy.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment



Don't microdose and don't inject them. Bad things happen, m'kay.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Depression can be a result of an emotionally toxic environment. No amount of any kind of drug can fix that; but drugs and alcohol can dull the pain.

Just sayin....

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Depression can be a result of an emotionally toxic environment. No amount of any kind of drug can fix that; but drugs and alcohol can dull the pain.

Just sayin....

I hear you. But that is why Ketamine may be a better alternative to psilocybin. Greater control within an anaesthetic context

a reply to: HilterDayon
Reading books can help.
Here are two I recommend:
"Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

"Families and How to Survive them" by John Cleese and Robin Skynner.

a reply to: olaru12
I agree.
When anyone goes to see a therapist the first thing they say is.....tell me about your childhood.....
It's not always obvious that the environment is toxic.....

I would suggest that parents read the books I have recommended as well as the children, if they really want to help.

Giving drugs to the one who is believed to have the problem, is not going to cure the problem imo.

a reply to: ketsuko

Okay, I've now totally gone off the idea of even remotely thinking about using unproven methods to promote healing from depression in my beloved son, because although I would never have opted for him to inject them anyway, I intuitively would have known that's a stupid & dangerous idea - there are still too many unknowns for me to contemplate being the one to supervise the process.

As others have said also, microdosing is a bad idea & in fact only medium-high doses, a couple of times, works to help people resolve their depression, in accordance with recent scientific testing against treatment resistant severe depression.

I wouldn't feel comfortable suggesting to my son that he take a 'heroic' dose, when in fact there are many non-drug related methods we can use to address his depression at this stage in the journey. I can state categorically that I won't be recommending or discussing magic mushrooms as a means of dealing with his depression - there are plenty of other methods which already seem to be having a very positive effect, which are largely circumstantial around activities & courses he can involve himself with, as well as better recreational focii than social media & gaming.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in the thread - I will be leaving this here now, as noted my mind has been completely changed for the good by several members' posts, I appreciate your willingness to engage & suggest useful measures which might help.

Best wishes, FITO.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thank you for obliquely suggesting that the problem is my fault. How pleasant you are.

a reply to: olaru12

You as well. You have absolutely no idea of the sort of parents I & my wife are, we are not 'toxic', in fact we are kind, considerate, supportive & love our two sons very much. You have some nerve making statements like that about people you do not know.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thank you for obliquely suggesting that the problem is my fault. How pleasant you are.

I did not say it was your fault.

Have you read the books I suggested?

Do you want to help your son?

Therapists really do say:
Tell me about your childhood.....
I was asked and my brother was as well.