Psilocybin - magic mushrooms as a cure for depression. Can we move on from Prozac et al....?

It has gradually filtered into our modern consciousness that hallucinogenic fungi can be utilised as a treament - an extremely effective, minimally disruptive treatment - for otherwise treatment-resistant severe depression. This information will be completely unknown to many, so I'm creating this thread as a place which collates some good info & begins to examine the question in more detail, hopefully helping to inspire people with depression that there is hope on the horizon, that treatment-resistant depression is not a lifelong sentence of misery.

Specifically, two moderate ingestions of magic mushrooms can have positive effects including total remission, which last over a year, even up to 4.5 years (that is the extent the effect has been measured in scientific trials - it seems likely that if the effect lasts over four years, it is a lifelong remission or mitigation of the worst effects..)

There's a personal reason for my renewed interest in this matter (I researched it a few years ago & kept up with new developments on & off) - basically, my 18 yr old son has begun to experience quite significant depression, we are just at the outset of our journey in seeking such treatment/ therapy which will be necessary. Knowing what I know, at the minimum I will e suggesting that 'microdosing' with psilocybin or similar naturally-derived hallucinogenic compounds will be an effective plan of action over the summer break, to see if he can put it behind him before starting out at university (here in the UK). I will have to convince my wife first, she will be more difficult to persuade as she doesn't go in for scientific reading, whereas my son I'm sure will be quick to see the potential benefits. He has never taken drugs, he doesn't drink or smoke, this will be a purely scientific quest for him, and thankfully I feel that I know just about enough to be an effective support & counsellor to him if he does decide to go forward with this microdosing opportunity.

Here's a great documentary regarding the potential for psilocybin as a treatment for depression, it follows the candidates for a specific scientific trial of the drug, run by Imperial College London, in this case offering two large doses separated by a two week period:



Here's news regarding the latest study (in New England) regarding similar methodology as seen in the above video, in the USA rather than in the UK: Web MD ~ 'Magic Mushrooms' Provide Fast, Long-lasting Depression Relief: Study

Here's a fully accessible peer-reviewed study on the use of psilocybin for treatment of depression: NIH ~ The Therapeutic Potential of Psilocybin

Here's an article which gets to the heart of the problem - there is no evidence that modern antidepressants work, and the so-called 'chemical imbalance' cause is utterly false & not evidenced anywhere at all, just repeated so often that it 'became true' (something we've witnessed with pandemic science too). 30 Years After Prozac Arrived, We Still Buy the Lie That Chemical Imbalances Cause Depression

Here's a little article which highlights some of the beneficial changes which can come about with the use of psilocybin for the treatment of depression ~ Mushrooms for Depression? The Pros & Cons

Here's an older essay from Psychology Today, which details the pathways in the brain on which the psilocybin acts, in order to produce antidepressive effects ~ Treating Depression With Magic Mushrooms I will say that this article was written before the incredible and long-lasting effects of psilocybin treatment were becoming known due to various recent studies around the world. Hence the article hesitates to promote anything more than 'modest' benefits for depressed people using this treatment method. Much more is now known, and so we can happily state with authority that psilocybin has 'excellent' and 'long-lasting' benefits for depressed people.

Here's a list of the best documetaries on Netflix which deal with the subject. The YouTube video shown above was actually on Netflix recently but is not included on this list; however, searching for it may yield a big screen viewing of that particular documentary if you prefer to watch it on your TV. Top 5 Psychedelic Documentaries on Netflix There are a couple which are comedy-driven, but they are likely to be enlightening & entertaining in a sense also, it's always good to get context, the experiences of others.

I hope this little thread sparks an interest which will carry over into your discussions with friends, hopefully helping to spread the good word regarding this treatment methodology. It's so vital that we get past the failing antidepressant drugs, with all their horrid side effects, to a treatment which is effective, long-lasting, capable of making people whole, healed & free from the awful hellishness of severe depression.

Godspeed.


FITO

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
There's a personal reason for my renewed interest in this matter (I researched it a few years ago & kept up with new developments on & off) - basically, my 18 yr old son has begun to experience quite significant depression, we are just at the outset of our journey in seeking such treatment/ therapy which will be necessary. Knowing what I know, at the minimum I will e suggesting that 'microdosing' with psilocybin or similar naturally-derived hallucinogenic compounds will be an effective plan of action over the summer break, to see if he can put it behind him before starting out at university (here in the UK).

S&F FITO. Best of luck with your son.

I can only say, "Be really careful going forward." There are many 'things' that can be unexpectedly revealed ... things your son might not be ready for. Suggest you engage ATS's KellyPrettyBear in direct conversation if at all possible.

ETA: Hallucinogenics can radically alter states of consciousness. They can wake up elements of that 90% dormant part of your brain. Things that have been seen often can't be unseen. Ever observed anyone so affected?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Mate, to say this was an important topic would be an understatement to say the least.

Unfortunately we are now living in a technocratic world where only manufactured substances can and will be used for medicinal purposes. If there is no profit to be made, it won't happen. If it doesn't make money, regardless of the benefits, government says nah, too bad so sad. If on the other hand you've got something that makes money, even if it kills people, WOOHOOOO let's get that going.

Here in Australiaguaystan, the TGA have recently refused to reschedule psilocybin, meaning that, regardless of any demonstrated benefits, particularly with regards to mental health, it's a case of naaaah, we actually don't really give two flying @'s about you unless you're making money for our lobbyists and our future sick pharma employers.

So it remains illegal, and you will be considered a criminal and dealt with in that regards, because you're not a cash cow.

TGA

And just in case anyone isn't aware, this is the same government organisation that banned Ivermectin in Australia, not because it was bad, but because it might create vaccine hesitancy.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
I have watched the program that you have posted awhile back, on netflix.

What do you mean when you say that your son is experiencing depression?
How is it manifesting?

It is also good for cronic pain.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Sorry to hear about the issues your son is having with depression, I wish you all the best for the future.

Depression and mental health issues are very complex and affect more people than we care to admit.
And they affect every individual in a different and uniquely specific way.

The mind is a hugely complicated thing and what may be such an important issue for one individual can be so trivial for others, and vice versa.

I'm of the opinion that most sweeping and generalised solutions offer only limited help.
Any advancement in treatment or additions to treatments available can only be welcomed - I also think that nature has many solutions for many of our problems, we've just yet to discover them.

Maybe as a society we need to start looking more at the causes of these issues and eliminating or reducing them rather than just the treatment?

The chatting voice in the head says you are not good enough......it says lots of things.

Silence is golden.

Certain substances stop the chatting....

Imagine how wonderful life could be without the narrator, without the judge.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Sorry to hear about your son they can be incredibly effective in alleviating symptoms and helping coming to terms with things/seeing things from a new perspective but set and setting is very important - there are a few locations in the Lake District tht run guided classes in that and ayahuasca for mental health and addiction issues.

Things have started moving away from anti-depressants in the UK - Ecotherapy (being out in nature, doing general labour/odd jobs, learning new skills) has been found to be far more effective than medication or traditional talking therapy, counselling. It's especially true for men as we don't naturally speak face to face but work better shoulder to shoulder.

Quite a lot of the beneficial effect has to do with exposure to microbes and mycellium (Mycobacterium vaccae) in soil that have potent clinically proven anti-anxiety and anti-depresant properties that also boost cognitive function and reduce stress.

I volunteer in the area myself for the Wildlife Trust running groups for young adults/teens - there's sites up and down the UK if you think it's something he might be interested in?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Much agreed! Emphasis on micro dosing, as a full dosage will amplify all underlying moods. I saw someone freak out because it was just too much and not prepared and mentally ready.

Without a regulated supply, in it's natural form, it's very hard to tell the amount and potency, even in dry form. They are not forbidden here, so some grow the strongest ones (I know the scientific name but not sure about T&C) but even those will vary greatly in potency and among different people's daily condition too, also weight.

So if it's ever going to be a thing, be prepared for the state and pharma industry grabbing their share, just to make sure you have a good and safe quality product ...

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Best wishes for you and your son, depression is a horrible infliction. At 18 I'd suggest trying most things before going to a doctor for some generic anti-depressants. It's fairly well known that suicidal ideation amongst other things has a high potential to manifest with most antidepressants in young adults.

It's worth noting the undesirable fact that psilocybin is a class A substance here too, apparently they amended the 1974 drugs act to include all forms of psilocybin. As far as I'm aware UK courts do not recognize any medical benefits from such substances... Unlike pot, under the right circumstances with that substance you can easily walk away with a slap on the wrist or less.

Which brings me to my last bit of advice, try natural things at first. Especially diet, excercise and basic wholesome interaction. If the basics don't work maybe try microdosing? Make sure your son keeps a mood dairy too.

I know psilocybin works for depression but I don't know enough to really give advice, I have too much experience with mainstream drugs and at that age I definitely wouldn't suggest them. Drugs and there effects will vary if the depression is situational or genetic too. For the latter a medication that works is essential.

Therapy works too. It's more about understanding oneself and should be approached as such imo. I spent years dumbing myself down to make the happy feels, it's not ideal. Genuinely best of luck to you and yours.

mental drugs
100% of patients have a relapse
it is just the way it is

a reply to: RAY1990

I spent years dumbing myself down to make the happy feels, it's not ideal.

Nobody can feel happy all the time.

Many children are told not to cry....told to smile.....told 'I just want you to be happy'.

Basically if you are not happy then there's something wrong with you.

Now go get some meds...lol.

It's fear.....fear of the future....fear about me and how I should act.

So don't look at yourself in the future....

Can you see you now?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

When you are doing everything right, excercise, good social life, eating right, keeping routines, keeping healthy relationships etc yet depression physically manifests itself then it's an issue.

Happy was a simplified choice of words. It's more about stability physically and mentally. The "dumbing down" is sometimes a necessity of contentment, the happy feels as it were. A much preferable state of mind than the shutdowns stress and depression can induce imo.

a reply to: RAY1990

yet depression physically manifests itself then it's an issue.

Can you say what physically manifests.....what shows up?

a reply to: bastion

I was amazed at the rise of these camps and workshops based around a mental health retreat idea, it works and should have a lot more government support.

The NHS back some of them apparently although it seemed patchy when I looked into it. The Prince's trust done brilliant work when I was a kid and it makes absolute sense to have courses and such tailored for mental well-being.

good on ya Bastion!

originally posted by: musicismagic
mental drugs
100% of patients have a relapse
it is just the way it is

That's the things with the psilocybin research though.. they found that one dose can be effective for a month and even more. Psilocybin teaches you how to fish whereas prozac just gives you a fish and makes you dependent on taking it every day.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

It would come under the term clinical depression, things like insomnia, tiredness, lack of appetite, aches and pains, migraines are some of the physical ailments.

I'm comfortable talking about me but it isn't my thread.

a reply to: RAY1990
Thanks for sharing.

The thread does not belong to anyone btw.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I'm very sorry to hear about your son.

I can't imagine what it must be like to come to age in today's world. It's just a very strange world, and extremely hard to cope with even for well seasoned adults.

Microdosing may help, but I wouldn't view it as a cure all. I don't say this to be negative, but rather to set possible expectations. That said, it's different for everyone, so it is possible it can provide enough relief so that everything is at least manageable.

As long as the dosage is small enough though, I don't think it would be a bad thing though, so it's at least worth a try so long as it's done under well supervised conditions. Trying to increase the dosage too high without a trip could just make things too weird. An actual trip is double edged. While it could carry a quick epiphany that could help a reconciliation of sorts, there is also the very real possibility it has a darker approach that is difficult for a young mind to find the positive in even if it's introspection we should have faced.... So I wouldn't suggest a trip.

On a side note. I think it would help to make sure most content he absorbs in the near future is positive. Try not to talk about news unless it highlights the still existing beauty in life and in man kind.

Find new hobbies that are engaging, and fulfilling. A lot of what I struggled with when becoming a man was self esteem and identity. So new things help us understand who we are, and also build confidence. This will at least help identify if this is a "spell" associated with coming to age, or something a bit more cellular or chemical.

Another thing I'd suggest is diet change and exercise. The diet change doesn't have to be anything crazy, everyone is different. Maybe just work on trimming out processed foods and focusing on things you recognize every ingredient in the list or using whole foods to create a meal. Exercise will help subtle image changes and confidence.

Again, positivity is key, and that goes doubly for Microdosing should you choose. But just be pragmatic and understand there are very few fixes that we can just ingest. Typically they work in tandem with other things like lifestyle changes.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Finally had time to go through some of the reviews in the video and @32:05 the man says

"I've never been more happy in my life, and I never have been more terrified and it all happened inside 30 minutes".

I want to drop here that when a butterfly is born / transformated, the first experience must be sheer terror as it is confined and has to struggle it's way out, more than any other animal born in a shell (eggs allow room to move). But then it will spread it's beautiful wings and go on with the experience, but from another perspective, literally.

Also emphasizing on what CriticalStinker wrote, especially about full dosages, or approaching them. There might be a deep insight, an epiphany but one should not underestimate the agility of though in such a state. Like for instance the thought "I should eat more conscious" can very easy lead down feeling and experiencing all the misery we bring upon the animal world and further down that slope could send someone weeping and from there, down down down....

It's important for if such a thing happens, a dosage that kicks in visuals and "the zone", to remind oneself: "It's just the toxic reaction my body has, I will be fine in half a day". Also speaking about that, it's a good idea to have a doc check up the blood for like liver and kidney values during microdosing.

The last thing you want is permanent damage because daily dosage even micro could be too heavy. I know Globuli work on that principle of watering down poisons and similar so the body spawns a (beneficial) reaction.

Keep this in mind and do not forget the legal problems.