Eliminating Elections Key To True Representational Democracy

originally posted by: nugget1

Once someone turns 18, and if they have at least an 8th grade education, they will be randomly selected for govt service for a single, two-year term.

What if the randomly selected person doesn't want the job? What if their limited life experiences make them totally incapable of making quality decisions? What about all the people an glorified welfare (SSDI) that don't want to work?
What system will be put in place to oversee 340+ million people, and who chooses them?

1. The issue of expertise is addressed first by the 13 yearlong training program called public school, and second by the evaluation & ranking process post term.

2. No one is actually forcing you to participate in this system. You are incentivized by having a paid two-year vacation after a two year service term.

3. This system wouldn't be put in place immediately. You'd need to retool the schools first. until you have that first batch of graduates the system would chug along as is.

originally posted by: ERISunveiled

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ERISunveiled
You lost me here...

• Progressives—good policies informed by empathy & evidence, but… *long deep exhale*

and here...

the common human decency of progressive policies

There was no need to continue reading after that.

universal health care, $25 minimum wage. why aren't these are good policies?

If you believe they are, nothing I say will change your mind.

a reply to: ERISunveiled

The People's Revolution of China, then?

originally posted by: ERISunveiled
you mean YOU? You understand the point is YOU could be a representative or someone who monitors them to check for corruption?

Your plan involves much more intrusive government than we have now and that's saying something. Count me out.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ERISunveiled
you mean YOU? You understand the point is YOU could be a representative or someone who monitors them to check for corruption?

Your plan involves much more intrusive government than we have now and that's saying something. Count me out.

Exactly. Who watches the watchers?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ERISunveiled

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ERISunveiled
You lost me here...

• Progressives—good policies informed by empathy & evidence, but… *long deep exhale*

and here...

the common human decency of progressive policies

There was no need to continue reading after that.

universal health care, $25 minimum wage. why aren't these are good policies?

And how are you going to pay for that?

by doing whatever they did in the 60's when they had the equivalent of a $25 minimum wage, and we'd pay for healthcare by legalising and taxing drugs & sex work

originally posted by: Klassified
Exactly. Who watches the watchers?

Even more watchers. It's like the turtle analogy but going up instead of down.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: ERISunveiled

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ERISunveiled
You lost me here...

• Progressives—good policies informed by empathy & evidence, but… *long deep exhale*

and here...

the common human decency of progressive policies

There was no need to continue reading after that.

universal health care, $25 minimum wage. why aren't these are good policies?

If you believe they are, nothing I say will change your mind.

if your reasons are stupid and immoral then you are correct. If there's a reason that isn't just keeping the status quo in place for the sake of the status quo, then by all means, I will listen.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Klassified
Exactly. Who watches the watchers?

Even more watchers. It's like the turtle analogy but going up instead of down.

yeah, they watch each other. like what we already do in our free time

I like the idea of requiring each person to work inside the government. Interesting suggestion.

I also like the idea of each person having to do two years in the military, or two years as an officer of the law.

Might give people a better perspective on those three types of jobs.

a reply to: ERISunveiled

What about those incapable of working, the disabled, the aged?

What about the arts?

How do you ensure that everyone gets enough to live? How do you ensure that no-one gets too much. How do you control crime and stop those 'robber baron' mafiosi from arising under your system?

How would law be applied under your system? Is there any imprisonment for those who are a danger to society. Where do you draw the line and how is it adjudicated?

It seems to me that if you remove the checks and balances, that you are making a situation where the most totalitarian, vicious and criminal come to the fore.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ERISunveiled
you mean YOU? You understand the point is YOU could be a representative or someone who monitors them to check for corruption?

Your plan involves much more intrusive government than we have now and that's saying something. Count me out.

well that's why there's the part about making your govt. job anonymous. if tech ppl can figure out how you could do your 20 hour a week govt. job *anonymously* but still accountable if you become corrupt or just incompetent, then it's not intrusive.

a reply to: ERISunveiled

Sorry, not a fan.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ERISunveiled

What about those incapable of working, the disabled, the aged?

What about the arts?

How do you ensure that everyone gets enough to live? How do you ensure that no-one gets too much. How do you control crime and stop those 'robber baron' mafiosi from arising under your system?

How would law be applied under your system? Is there any imprisonment for those who are a danger to society. Where do you draw the line and how is it adjudicated?

It seems to me that if you remove the checks and balances, that you are making a situation where the most totalitarian, vicious and criminal come to the fore.

this is interesting bc other responses were made by people who... honestly,,, I don't believe actually read the proposal (one person literally admitted it but still felt like they knew enough to comment). But this is different bc you're assuming nothing from this system would be carried over to the next.

the Elderly & disabled already have systems in place to make sure they are protected. No one is suggesting we get rid of those systems. Your other questions are also the kinds of issues the people RUNNING THE SYSTEM HAVE TO ANSWER--not me. This proposal is about rethinking how our representatives are chosen. There's some extra stuff about how to incentivize and hold them accountable, but what you're asking about are policy questions beyond the preview of this conversation.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: ERISunveiled

Sorry, not a fan.

no apology necessary

a reply to: ERISunveiled

if tech ppl can figure out how you could do your 20 hour a week govt. job *anonymously* but still accountable if you become corrupt or just incompetent, then it's not intrusive.

So, these 'tech people' would be our new overlords? Instead of having a government of 535 representing us, along with 50 state governors and thousands of mayors that can all be voted out, we should put all the control in a few hands?

Just curious; have you finished high school yet? I know you haven't studied much world history.

A tax on Sex Work to pay for healthcare....huh?

Under your plan, Will there be a sliding scale for different "events"?

taking the place

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: ERISunveiled

if tech ppl can figure out how you could do your 20 hour a week govt. job *anonymously* but still accountable if you become corrupt or just incompetent, then it's not intrusive.

So, these 'tech people' would be our new overlords? Instead of having a government of 535 representing us, along with 50 state governors and thousands of mayors that can all be voted out, we should put all the control in a few hands?

Just curious; have you finished high school yet? I know you haven't studied much world history.

this one broke my brain and I'll be signing off for the day... maybe week. i don't know how you could think I'm advocating for 'tech overlords', when tech ppl are only in this conversation as a means of anonymizing We The People so we can do our govt work in peace--which *REMINDER*--is the work of taking the place of all those 535 fed reps, governors & mayors who only got their job by having a pathological need for attention and then being rewarded with money, power, status as a result of getting the most attention. Great system.

And yes, I've graduated high school and know about world history. This form of representational democracy is called SORTITION, and was practiced by the Ancient Greeks until they got sacked by invading hordes bc they didn't want to engage in war. Which I admit seems like a huge flaw until you realize if EVERYONE practiced sortition then that could actually be a path to world peace, if that kind of thing interests you. In the meantime here's a quote about sortition from Aristotle

“It is accepted as democratic when public offices are allocated by lot; and as oligarchic when they are filled by election. -- Aristotle, Politics, Book IV”

Everything in your post was wrong, and your proposed system of “democracy” is in fact a textbook example of Fascism with some modern technocrat tyranny thrown in for good measure.

a reply to: ERISunveiled



Given the choice between a crooked politician and a fascist overlord...I'll take the crooked politician everytime.