Why do Christians fail so miserably at promoting the faith?

a reply to: Crowfoot

God is God. It says when all is said and done there will be no male or female, so this idea of Goddess to exalt one half over the other is a moot point. We won't need it.

We are at our best when we are together in a pair, not trying to argue which is best.

Why do Christians fail so miserably at promoting the faith?

This might have something to do with it....

www.awkwardmomentsbible.com...

www.christianheadlines.com... amily-members.html


www.newswest9.com...

news.yahoo.com...

a reply to: ketsuko

Annoying is such a state undesirable is such a state freedom is a better choice and it can be sought without trying to find a first cause to all of this... this being the defined the yet to be defined and anything else known or yet unknown... what I have experienced is when someone doesn't know their "range" gets too close then starts yelling that they are the lord jesus christ at the top of their lungs as in "I am the lord Jesus Christ!" it's a curious but also stupid phenomenon that has happened six to seven times in my presence.

a reply to: chr0naut

I don't see as great a divide in religions as you do. The east as well as Kaballah recognize a distinction between the manifested conciousness/reality and the unmanifested nature of God. The west, perhaps dealing with increased egoism of western mentality only alludes to our real nature in scripture....

Colossians 3.11..."Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all".

Certainly the gate is narrow to God conciousness so only few have found it. But many more have been given a small taste of that reality. Clearly, it is something the egotistical mind will chase but can never achieve. So its hidden in the symbolism of 144,000 for that reason.

a reply to: olaru12
No offense to Christians, I have mostly Christian friends...but as someone that was literally pushed more and more from Christianity towards Paganism, because of the dogmatic closemindedness.. I can not help myself noticing this:

The leaders of that religion copied so much from Paganism it isn't funny. Telling a Pagan he worships Satan is like telling an atheist that he worships God. It's a baseless insult spawned from indoctrination and closemindedness. But my faith restricts me from leashing out about it. Would love to tell them about Christmas and Easter, their biggest holidays being a copy cat and all the things they got wrong but what for?

It would reduce me down to that small group of Christians trying exactly what this thread handles: Promoting my faith. And promoting is always an act of violation towards other faith. "Check out my faith it's better than yours!".

But enough negativity about Christians, I have a perfect example about a religion very close to my faith falling for the same mindset: Wiccan. And therefore I am now allowed to say something about that.

It's a beautiful concept, coming from Paganism, just like Christianity, just that it's only roughly 100 year old. And in those 100 years, noticing it in the last year online, that it's more and more becoming a Church with dogma. We have Wiccans online acting out creating snappy memes about non Wiccans and other faiths.

Copying witch characters out of TV shows and subtitle stuff like "When people talk about me... but they don't know I already have their name in a coffin". Calling everyone else "Muggle". Calling them "Priestess" and narrating like "Oh you may become Wiccan, but you have to be born like that". Took not even 100 year to make it an exclusive club and the proof to belong to that club is talking them into believing you that you always felt like this.

Then that's an ugly thing IMO, almost an abolishment of the original Wiccan ideas, let alone Paganism, but it shares parallels to the path Christianity has walked.

The only reason why the followers of the Grandmother of Christianity (Pagans) don't rip themselves to shreds is because there is no Bible in that sense. The concept is enough and the rest is universal anyways. Oh if...no doubt it would be the same, minority of overly Pagans walking around like that tiny minority of overly invested Christians.

And all this post is not to hold my own faith over others, just voicing some observations. In the end, everything is tainted that we touch, through us humans. Even religion and faith.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't see as great a divide in religions as you do. The east as well as Kaballah recognize a distinction between the manifested conciousness/reality and the unmanifested nature of God. The west, perhaps dealing with increased egoism of western mentality only alludes to our real nature in scripture....

Colossians 3.11..."Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all".

Certainly the gate is narrow to God conciousness so only few have found it. But many more have been given a small taste of that reality. Clearly, it is something the egotistical mind will chase but can never achieve. So its hidden in the symbolism of 144,000 for that reason.

Those 144,000 were specifically Hebrews, with each tribes and numbers notated specifically:

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000."

- Revelation 7: 1-8.

I believe that is fairly unequivocal that this was not in reference to some pseudo-Israelite group, but was specifically to Semitic Jews.

a reply to: Crowfoot

what I have experienced is when someone doesn't know their "range" gets too close then starts yelling that they are the lord jesus christ at the top of their lungs as in "I am the lord Jesus Christ!" it's a curious but also stupid phenomenon that has happened six to seven times in my presence.

I'm almost afraid to ask you where and under what circumstances you were in to experience this, especially so many times. As a Christian, I have never personally experienced it. Especially since Christianity doesn't teach that we are Christ or that we have the ability to become Christ. We are to live "like" him to the best of our abilities, but that's the extent of it. Being a Christian means we understand that we are not God and are not capable of saving ourselves. We need a savior.

a reply to: chr0naut

It is unimportant if you comprehend scripture in a material or spiritual sense, but the 144,000 petals of the crown chakra was known long before revelation was written. Much of revelation describes Johns journey to the crown. Which confirms the truth in Jesus words.

I will not pollute your mind any further as you have previously pointed out a greater truth. Negation is certainly a key to remove all that hinders our path. Like Jesus said... "Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”.

a reply to: Deetermined

It's just been at random the age bracket has been i'd say between 11 to 14 years old and approximately no more than 14 feet away and no less than 10 feet away.

Not a lot of Buddhism is correct as it isn't "cannon" but studying and meditating was a practice for over 25 years until I went to see an abbot known to be a living saint and he said nothing we can teach you and basically gave me the big ol boot of you're through. He suggested I go to India and sort of disappear for an easier/quieter life.

But all sorts are "attracted" to me in healthy and unhealthy ways... but not really anything that can be done about it other than India like he suggested I guess.

a reply to: Crowfoot

So basically, someone who is a young teen yells stupid crap at you and you judge an entire demographic by that? Sounds very wise of you, oh mystic sage who cannot be taught any more. I can hazard a guess as to why the wise man on the mountain deemed you unteachable.

a reply to: glend

Much of revelation describes Johns journey to the crown. Which confirms the truth in Jesus words.

With that said, who's version of what the 144,000 stands for do you believe? The version that John told by the Revelation of Jesus Christ or the version that some Egyptian esoteric "god" told? John's vision told us that the 144,000 came from the 12 tribes of Israel.

a reply to: Crowfoot

It's just been at random the age bracket has been i'd say between 11 to 14 years old and approximately no more than 14 feet away and no less than 10 feet away.

Not a lot of Buddhism is correct as it isn't "cannon" but studying and meditating was a practice for over 25 years until I went to see an abbot known to be a living saint and he said nothing we can teach you and basically gave me the big ol boot of you're through. He suggested I go to India and sort of disappear for an easier/quieter life.

These were all random events in different locations? Buddhist gatherings? Drug parties? Temporary detainment in a mental facility? The last two were the first things that came to my mind.

Spirituality and building a relationship with God is a lifelong learning experience. Although I've always had faith in God/Jesus my whole life, I didn't know what it really meant to have a relationship with Him until my 30's and even that took a life changing event before I decided to truly commit myself to it. I've learned a lot through the mistakes that I've made though and I think I appreciate God more because of it. I always took God for granted before that.

a reply to: ketsuko

If you have reading comprehension you'll see that it was the phenomena of such a thing occurring as stupid... it is my personal opinion that they got a sort of bliss or rapture at that distance and that's just what jumps to the surface, others take it as a sexual arousal and some as drunk or on some other drug.

I can't teach anything to anyone other than sit there until only sitting occurs then uproot feeling, form, perception, consciousness, and perception... not something anyone else can do for you but that's the only thing I have to teach. Nothing more nothing less... and absolutely no one can do any of that sitting and removal of those five except for you and you alone.

It is unfortunate that those things I say that should be uprooted occur in others but it is not my duty or task to see such things correctly for them nor is it anyone else's job either. Sure many billions are poured into such things every year by all walks of life but that's not doing anything other than hoping to have a better future life where bondage is a little less than it may seem now... but it still isn't free... I think people subconsciously know that; and that's the very reason so many people are willing to pay for it... when in truth it costs nothing.

Why Evangelize? (Insight on the News—1990)

The lack of evangelizing on the part of churchgoers has been cited by some authorities as related to the decline in church membership among mainline religions. Concern over this problem in 1988 prompted the United Church of Christ to adopt as a four-year priority the issue of “evangelism and membership growth.”

The St. Petersburg Times reports that other mainline denominations in the United States, including the Presbyterian Church and the Episcopal Church, have acted similarly. However, a recent survey of over 200 congregations of the United Church of Christ revealed that many of its 1.6 million members manifest little interest in talking to others about their faith. One member asked: “Why do we have to talk to others if we’re doing good?” Another said: “If you live your faith, you don’t have to talk about it.”

Yet, in his book American Mainline Religion, coauthor Wade Clark Roof admitted that “how people talk about their religious and spiritual lives is integrally related to the survival of faith itself.”

If “doing good” and having “faith” is enough to please God, why did the apostle Paul write: “Woe is me if I did not declare the good news”? He explained to fellow believers in Rome: “If you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.”​—1 Corinthians 9:16; Romans 10:9, 10.

Pigi Perini, a curate* in Milan, visited Africa in 1999, where a nun told him: “I’ve been here for 40 years, and I’ve succeeded in never pronouncing the name of Jesus so as not to destroy African culture.” The curate concludes: “We no longer speak about Jesus, we no longer share Jesus, we no longer preach the gospel!” For many others, though, preaching is an important part of their lives and a way of staying spiritually awake. Pigi Perini admits: “You come across two people who talk about Christ at the market, or who carry a Bible under their arm, and you say to yourself: Look, Jehovah’s Witnesses!”







*: curate = a member of the clergy engaged as assistant to a vicar, rector, or parish priest. Roman Catholic in this context.

“We used to live together in peace,” a woman said of the 3,000 Hutu and Tutsi living in the village of Ruganda. The New York Times said: “The story of this village is the story of Rwanda: Hutu and Tutsi living together, intermarrying, not caring or not even knowing who was a Hutu and who a Tutsi. Then something snapped,” and “the killings began.”

Hatred, like love, is taught. A popular song says that children are “taught before it’s too late/Before you are six or seven or eight/To hate all the people your relatives hate.” Especially today is hate taught. The churches in particular have failed to teach their members to love.

The French newspaper Le Monde asked: “How can one avoid thinking that the Tutsi and the Hutu who are at war in Burundi and Rwanda were trained by the same Christian missionaries and attended the same churches?” Indeed, according to the National Catholic Reporter, Rwanda is a “70% Catholic nation.”

Earlier in this century, countries of Eastern Europe turned to atheistic Communism. Why? In 1960 the dean of a religious faculty in Prague, Czechoslovakia, observed: “It is we, we Christians alone, who are responsible for Communism. . . . Remember that the Communists once were Christians. If they do not believe in a just God, whose fault is it?”

Consider what the churches did during World War I. British brigadier general Frank Crozier noted regarding that war: “The Christian Churches are the finest blood-lust creators which we have and of them we made free use.” Later, after World War II, The New York Times said: “In the past local Catholic hierarchies almost always supported the wars of their nations, blessing troops and offering prayers for victory, while another group of bishops on the other side publicly prayed for the opposite outcome.”

Yet, Jesus Christ demonstrated love in all his activities, and the apostle Paul wrote: “You yourselves are taught by God to love one another.” (1 Thessalonians 4:9) “True Christians are brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ,” observed a staff writer for the Vancouver Sun. “They would never, never intentionally hurt one another.”

Since 1914, two world wars and over a hundred smaller conflicts have spilled an ocean of blood. A century ago, French writer Guy de Maupassant said that “the egg from which wars are hatched” is patriotism, which he called “a kind of religion.” In fact, The Encyclopedia of Religion says that patriotism’s cousin, nationalism, “has become a dominant form of religion in the modern world, preempting a void left by the deterioration of traditional religious values.” (Italics added.) By failing to promote true worship, false religion created the spiritual vacuum into which nationalism was able to pour.

Nowhere was this better illustrated than in Nazi Germany, whose citizens at the beginning of World War II claimed to be 94.4 percent Christian. Of all places, Germany​—birthplace of Protestantism and praised in 1914 by Pope Pius X as home of “the best Catholics in the world”—​should have represented the very best that Christendom had to offer.

Significantly, Catholic Adolf Hitler found readier support among Protestants than among Catholics. Predominantly Protestant districts gave him 20 percent of their votes in the 1930 elections, Catholic districts only 14 percent. And the first absolute majority for the Nazi Party in state elections was in 1932 in Oldenburg, a district 75 percent Protestant.

Apparently, the “void left by the deterioration of traditional religious values” was greater in Protestantism than in Catholicism. Understandably so. Liberalized theology and higher criticism of the Bible were mainly the product of German-speaking Protestant theologians.

Equally significant is what finally solidified lagging Catholic support behind Hitler. German historian Klaus Scholder explains that “by tradition German Catholicism had especially close ties with Rome.” Seeing in Nazism a bulwark against Communism, the Vatican was not averse to using its influence to strengthen Hitler’s hand. “Fundamental decisions shifted more and more to the Curia,” says Scholder, “and in fact Catholicism’s status and future in the Third Reich was finally decided almost solely in Rome.”

The part Christendom played in both world wars led to a severe loss of prestige. As the Concise Dictionary of the Christian World Mission explains: “Non-Christians had before their eyes . . . the evident fact that nations with a thousand years of Christian teaching behind them had failed to control their passions and had set the whole world ablaze for the satisfaction of less than admirable ambitions.”

Of course, religiously motivated wars are nothing new. But in contrast with the past when nations of different religions warred with one another, the 20th century has increasingly found nations of the same religion locked in bitter conflict. The god of nationalism has clearly been able to manipulate the gods of religion. Thus, during World War II, while Catholics and Protestants in Great Britain and the United States were killing Catholics and Protestants in Italy and Germany, Buddhists in Japan were doing the same to their Buddhist brothers in southeast Asia.

Nevertheless, in view of its own bloodstained clothing, Christendom cannot self-righteously shake its finger at others. By advocating, supporting, and at times electing imperfect human governments, professed Christians and non-Christians alike must share responsibility for the blood these governments have shed.

But what kind of religion would put government above God and offer its own members as political sacrifices on the altar of the god of war?

Do not forget the millions of lives snuffed out in the Holocaust, a tragedy in which Christendom’s churches were not guiltless.​—See Christendom and the Holocaust (Awake!—1991) and Why the Churches Kept Silent (Awake!—1995).

German clergymen also remained silent on another issue, less known, but just as tragic. In 1927, two years after Hitler outlined his thoughts on race in Mein Kampf, Catholic editor and theologian Joseph Mayer published a book bearing the episcopal imprimatur that said: “Mental patients, moral lunatics, and other inferior persons have no more right to propagate than they do to set fires.” Lutheran pastor Friedrich von Bodelschwingh found sterilization of the handicapped compatible with Jesus’ will.

This religiously supported attitude helped pave the way for Hitler’s 1939 “euthanasia decree,” which led to the death of more than 100,000 mentally deranged citizens and to the forced sterilization of an estimated 400,000. (This is somewhat reminiscent of the estimated 300,000 to 3,000,000 “witches” who, beginning in the 15th century, were murdered with papal blessing.)

Not until 1985, 40 years after the end of the war, did Lutheran Church officials in the Rhineland publicly admit: “Our church did not strongly enough oppose forced sterilization, the murder of sick and handicapped persons, and the performance of cruel medical experiments on humans. We beg forgiveness of the victims still alive and of their surviving relatives.”

It is true that the government’s euthanasia campaign slowed considerably after the Catholic bishop of Münster delivered a sharply worded attack on August 3, 1941, calling the policy murder. But why did it take 19 months and 60,000 deaths before a public condemnation was heard?

“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matthew 15:7-9)

a reply to: whereislogic

At a meeting of the World Council of Churches some 65 years ago, members were urged to “break out in a spirit of evangelism” and to teach their flocks to “go about evangelizing.” Five years later John A. O’Brien, a Catholic clergyman, wrote about the need to bring in new disciples “by going to them” and not simply “by sitting in our homes.” And in January 1994, Pope John Paul II said that it is “not the time to be ashamed of the Gospel, it’s time to preach it from the rooftops.”

Apparently these intermittent calls for evangelizers have fallen on deaf ears. An article in the Australian newspaper Illawarra Mercury stated: “Prominent South Coast Catholics are not keen to adopt the Jehovah’s Witness-type approach to their faith.” One man said that evangelism is simply “not part of the Catholic psyche.” Another reasoned: “It’s good for the Church to promote itself, but not through doorknocking. Perhaps through schools or letterbox drops would be better.” Even the dean of a local cathedral was not quite sure how to interpret the pope’s remarks. “We would encourage people to live out the Gospel they know through their own lives,” he said. “Whether that means doorknocking is another thing.” The headline of the news article sums it up well: “Catholics won’t heed Pope’s call to preach.”

Jesus foretold that apostates, like weeds sown among wheat, would infiltrate the Christian congregation and lead many astray. (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43; Acts 20:29-31; Jude 4) In time, these so-called Christians adopted pagan festivals, practices, and teachings, even labeling them “Christian.”

Consider also the distortion of the meaning of the word “kingdom.” The book The Kingdom of God in 20th-Century Interpretation states: “Origen [a third-century theologian] marks the change in Christian usage of ‘kingdom’ to the interior meaning of the rule of God in the heart.” On what did Origen base his teaching? Not on the Scriptures, but on “the framework of a philosophy and world view quite different from the thought world of Jesus and the earliest church.” In his work De Civitate Dei (The City of God), Augustine of Hippo (354-430 C.E.) stated that the church itself is the Kingdom of God. Such unscriptural thinking gave the churches of Christendom theological grounds to embrace political power. And they wielded such power for many centuries, often with brutality.​—Revelation 17:5, 18.

Today, though, the churches are reaping what they have sown. (Galatians 6:7) Many seem to be losing their power as well as their parishioners. Such a trend is quite noticeable in Europe. According to the journal Christianity Today, “now the great cathedrals of Europe [serve] not as houses of worship but as museums, empty of all but tourists.” The same trend can be observed in other parts of the world.

“And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations . . .”​—MATTHEW 24:14.

Christians are to preach the “good news of the kingdom” by telling others about it, explaining that the Kingdom is the future world government that will rule the earth in righteousness. Yet, the expression “good news” is also used in other ways in the Bible. For example, we find reference to “the good news of salvation” (Psalm 96:2); “the good news of God” (Romans 15:16); and “the good news about Jesus Christ.”​—Mark 1:1.

Simply stated, the good news includes all the truths about which Jesus spoke and his disciples wrote. Before ascending to heaven, Jesus told his followers: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:19, 20) So the work of true Christians is not just to inform others about the Kingdom; they must also endeavor to make disciples.

How are the churches doing in this regard? Those who do not understand what the Kingdom is​—and there are many—​cannot accurately teach others about it. Instead, they preach feel-good sermons about forgiveness of sins and faith in Jesus. They also seek to win converts through social work or by building hospitals, schools, and homes for the poor. While such efforts may boost church membership, they do not produce true Christians who sincerely seek to live in harmony with what Jesus taught.

One theologian writes: “You will find few scholars or leaders in Christian circles who deny that we are supposed to make disciples or apprentices to Jesus and teach them to do all things that Jesus said. . . . Jesus’ instructions on this matter are, after all, starkly clear. We just don’t do what he said. We don’t seriously attempt it. And apparently we don’t know how to do it.”

Similarly, a survey of Catholics in the United States revealed that 95 percent agreed that preaching the good news is a requirement of their faith. Yet, almost all felt that the best way to do this was, not by talking about it, but by living their life in such a way that it would be an example to others. One of those polled said: “Evangelization is different from words, words, words. We need to be the Good News.” U.S. Catholic, the magazine that conducted the survey, said that many hold back from sharing their faith because of “the church’s poor image with the recent sex abuse scandal and problematic church teachings.”

Elsewhere, a Methodist bishop lamented that his churches are divided and confused, lacking the nerve to carry out their mission and holding much the same values as does society in general. In a tone of frustration, he asked: “Who are the responsible bearers of the gospel of the Kingdom?”*

The bishop did not provide an answer to his question. But there is an answer. You will find it in the following article:

Who Are Preaching the Good News?

*: The word “gospel” is derived from the old English godspel, which means “good news; good tidings.” In some Bible translations, “gospel” is used to render the Greek word eu·ag·geʹli·on, meaning “good news.” (Mt 4:23; 24:14; Mr 1:14) As used in the Bible, the gospel, or good news, refers to the message about the Kingdom of God and of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

originally posted by: whereislogic
...
Earlier in this century, countries of Eastern Europe turned to atheistic Communism. Why? In 1960 the dean of a religious faculty in Prague, Czechoslovakia, observed: “It is we, we Christians alone, who are responsible for Communism. . . . Remember that the Communists once were Christians. If they do not believe in a just God, whose fault is it?”

edit: “this century” is referring to the 20th century.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Many Christians (of which I am one), want to beat people over the head with 'Christ'. We need to win souls, but I believe you should live your life in a way that promotes Christian values.
The way YOU live your live maybe the only bible some people ever read.
I would like to say I do this all the time, but like many I fall short.
Quad.

a reply to: Quadrivium

With all respect. First, I disagree with the premise "all" that is lingering in the title. I think it's just a small minority. Why do you "need to win souls" though? I understand it when someone has strong faith and want's to give insight, because faith tells one it's a (not THE one) good way to live.

Maybe you chose the word "win" subconscious or it was just no deeper intend, I don't know and not imply. But it does a good job of showing why a lot of people are fed up being approached with that in mind. "Winning".

Too eager, too sold. Sure it is intrinsic to those that feel the need to promote their faith, or they would not spend the time and energy to do it. So it's kind of self explanatory that this is the Elephant in the room.

When we let go of believing that our faith / religion is superior*, we open ourselves to the experience nature offers us. Superior feeling of own faith is the driving force to promote it to others, to "win" them over. But I don't want to focus too much on you using the word "win" though. It can be replaced but the meaning stays the same.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Many Christians (of which I am one), want to beat people over the head with 'Christ'.

And that's one of the main reasons I rejected evangelical Christianity dogma when I was a teen and decided my amalgamation of other religions, cultures and belief systems works as good as the control system of the KJV.

Christianity could work fine if it wasn't for the Christians. I don't trust em, something I learned on those wind blown Texas plains in the Southern Baptist faith. Even their churches were segregated; and coupled with a white Christian arrogance that i just couldn't accept.