Why do Christians fail so miserably at promoting the faith?

A post from another thread which constitutes a good OP for this topic. Why do Christians fail so miserably at promoting the faith?

I'm a committed Christian, but I have always tended towards science, and I love it when the scientific theories stack up in favour of a God-centric universe/creation. But I fully understand concerns with the 'bottom line' (GIVE YOUR LIFE TO CHRIST!) and I see how an unexplained promotion would readily put people off from further understanding & exploring the reality of the Kingdom of God upon the Earth, in its distributed form which we call 'Church'. Church is a community of people who believe that not only did God create the universe & ourselves (how that happened is another story) - but that in addition, getting to know that God is not only possible, but also wonderful & advisable for every human on Earth.

Part of the problem is that Christians often work so hard dealing with the nuts & bolts stuff of material reality, showing how fascinating & awe-inspiring the created order is - but they don't in any way build up a picture of why it is wonderful & advisable for every person to seek & find the very available connection with our Creator & Sustainer. To understand why it is advisable & wonderful to know the Creator, by 'giving your life to Christ', we must understand more about the nature of free will, and the way that we can 'overcome the world' (win a victory against the powers of death & decay which seek at every moment to claim the material which makes up our bodies & the world around us). The cyclical processes of material transition from decay/lifeless dust, to composition in a physical body, as the vessel for a living soul, or as animal/vegetable life, shows us that there is indeed a world to overcome, else our dust will be the end of us & there will be no conscious story re: who we were, are & will become. And stories are what the world of Man is made of - narrative - of our lives & our civilisations.

In a nutshell, no matter the road your life has taken, no matter the pain & suffering you face, or indeed any shame over past misdeeds - the Creator is loving, just, truthful in all things & willing to act on your behalf to improve the circumstances of your life & to save your soul from anything which has sullied or damaged it, for whatever reasons that may have happened.

In the philosophical respect of the world we live in, rather the universe we live in, the most fundamental principle in operation for the possibility of conscious, 'spiritual' life, is that free will must be absolutely preserved in the system overall (with occasional tweaks by the hand of the Almighty to 'course correct' the world in certain ways, or to simply bless a person for reasons known to God - these events are what we call 'miracles'...) Without the preservation of free will, there can be no true freedom for us to live the lives we wish to live. Whether our free choices are good or bad will bear out in the consequences of those choices, in the main, with the 'chance of circumstance' (which is the chaos engineered by a world of free choices & material forces) also affecting our lives both individually & collectively in various ways. We can't complain that life isn't fair, or that God (should He exist) is unkind, because the only way it can be fair is if free will exists. In that regard the world is 'fair' from an existential standpoint, we all are free to choose in response to circumstance - but life can seem unfair, when the chaos collisions of choice & circumstance lead to unfortunate or even tragic outcomes. Sadly, it is necessary that the possibility for evil to exist must remain, otherwise there is no possibility of free will leading to goodness in our lives - if we all did the 'right thing' all the time, we would be automatons.

Taking this onward, we see that our purpose is to 'overcome the world', if our spiritual form, our information/essence (SOUL) is to have a victory which makes our own personal narrative meaningful. For most people, the love of family & friends, the satisfaction of an interesting & useful career, and some enjoyable pursuits to share with others will give the level of meaning that is required in order to feel that their own journey & narrative has been worthwhile.

And certainly, at this point I will state emphatically: Such people, if they do not come to the knowledge of Christ, are NOT 'damned to Hell for all eternity'. All the evidence we have (tens of thousands of cases, including peer-reviewed analyses of medically verified near-death experiences) suggests that 'good people' such as those just described, will be welcomed to a paradisical realm of Light at death, greeted by loving relatives & friends who passed away before them - though of course, these people are then sent back to Earth, usually being told "It's not your time". They are often given a choice as to whether they wish to stay in the realm of Heaven or depart to live again with relatives & friends on the Earth, and naturally this spiritually enlightening & joyous, wondrous encounter is viewed as a godly, spiritual, precious experience - they are not in any way being sent to a Hellish realm. There are some testimonies of negative near-death experiences, but they are far more infrequent, a real minority of cases, and my guess is that these people have had a chance encounter with what I refer to as 'the poisoned astral' - the dark realm of the astral planes where evil spirits dwell, a place which was once godly, just as all of Creation was, yet which has been sullied by wickedness amongst spiritual beings & humans who are unrepentant evil men & women at the point of death. Though it is not 'Hellfire', it is nonetheless an awful place of shadows, gloom & fear. Frequently these near-departed souls are rescued from that realm by God, or by an angel on assignment, to bring them instead to the place of light, before being returned to the Earth once more.

So again, to overcome the world, that is what most people in society work at naturally - God has put His laws in their hearts, they are naturally good, they do not 'need' the spiritual 'Great Physician' (honorary title for Christ). Conversely, those who are indeed lost, adrift in a world they can't understand or cope with, perhaps laden with real sin which has real consequences in their lives - these are the people who must call on Christ as saviour, because when they do, it is assured that He will respond, that He will uplift them & bless them, giving them purified character, a new lease of life ('born again'), granting spiritual gifts & placing them in loving communities (churches), where He regularly can be found, by His overwhelming & glorious presence during worship, prayer & reflection. His very real presence is joyous indeed, to be near to Him in this way. So, the lost can be saved - but the safe can be enriched by a knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord of all Creation - the same spiritual gifts, loving communities, places of nearness to God, can be enjoyed by all - lives enhanced by the call & enabling of God in their lives.

It is also worth remembering - spiritual wickedness does exist, there are powers which interfere in peoples' lives, which can cause misery in myriad ways (they can be seen as unfortunate forces of nature, in a way - an obstacle to happiness, efficacy & fulfilment in this world). Therefore, to know Christ, simply by reaching out & asking Him to be near, is fulfilment itself.

This is pretty easy........... most religions well the people they believe, Christians on the other hand believe in the good values of their faith yet they have been convniced the back story is a fairy tale

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Pretty simple really ...

One thing Christians can't answer is who is god ?

Some say Jesus is god.
Some say Jesus is son of god.
Some say Jesus and god are separate .

Lets start with the basics first ... You will see Christians are torn apart on the simple question and answer....

If you can't even answer the basic question .. How are you gonna convince others ?

A Majority of Christians do not believe Jesus is god.

- A new survey reveals that 52 percent of American adults believe that Jesus was a great teacher and nothing more. If Jesus' claim to be God is false, then He was either delusional or deceptive, but He could not have been a great teacher.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Perhaps it is not directly the fault of Christians. Disinterest in organized religion has been growing. I remember reading that church membership among U.S. adults has gone below 50%.

I have faith in God. I have faith in things in the Book.

My life is a pretty happy one because of that.

I find that there are a lot of people who take an adversarial position to faith and God who seem to be pretty unhappy in general. I'm not saying they need to get God, but maybe there is something they're missing.

originally posted by: seedofchucky
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Pretty simple really ...

One thing Christians can't answer is who is god ?

Some say Jesus is god.
Some say Jesus is son of god.
Some say Jesus and god are separate .

Lets start with the basics first ... You will see Christians are torn apart on the simple question and answer....

If you can't even answer the basic question .. How are you gonna convince others ?

A Majority of Christians do not believe Jesus is god.

- A new survey reveals that 52 percent of American adults believe that Jesus was a great teacher and nothing more. If Jesus' claim to be God is false, then He was either delusional or deceptive, but He could not have been a great teacher.

Being an American adult is not a Christian criteria.

Jesus doesn't believe they are Christian:

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…" Matthew 7:21-23.

Hypocrisy is the cancer that is destroying the Church.

My pastor used to say "People don't believe the Bible because they don't know what it says. Most Christians believe the Bible because they don't know what it says."

I've watched Christians jump right past Grace to hitting people with Morality and rules. Christ died to set is free from the law. (Galatians 4:10) Trying to implement more laws is a direct opposition to Jesus' message and sacrifice. He fulfilled the law on our behalf. All we have to do is believe.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Why do Christians fail so miserably at promoting the faith?

Christians are to lead by example; perhaps the example they're setting isn't something other people wish to aspire to. Perhaps it's the 'anything goes and God will forgive me' attitude.
Some of the nastiest people I've met have been regulars in church. Some of the worst dealings I've ever had have been with 'Christian' business.

If it's obvious you have something wonderful in your life that others are lacking, they're want to know what it is. No proselytizing needed.

a reply to: chr0naut

Being an American adult is not a Christian criteria.

If christians can't come to the basic understanding and have rifts ... How can you expect to unite others to it ?
Do you not like the number ? do you feel its higher or lower ? Why does it even exist ? How is there so much divide between the most basic concept of who you are pretending to worship ?

Are you worshiping jesus ? God ? spirit ? Father ? All in one ? Son ? .... It makes no sense..

Its already a violation of the 1st commandment.

Jesus doesn't believe they are Christian:

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…" Matthew 7:21-23.

Who cares what Jesus believes ... At the end of the day its what God Believes. You are confusing God and Jesus .. You own quote confirms they are seperate. ...

You see he has come not for his will but the WILL of whom sent him .

God...

because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.

John 6:38

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Because it's not our job to "promote" our faith. Everyone has a calling. For some, yes, it's to evangelize but that's a minority. For the rest it's living our lives in faith as an example. Everyone has to make a decision, all we do is provide them with the information. We can lead them to the Bible but we can't make them read it.

One of the biggest mistakes of churches (and the reason I don't go to churches any more) is that they tell you that you have to have a personal relationship with Jesus and God and then proceed to tell you how to do that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I have faith in God. I have faith in things in the Book.

My life is a pretty happy one because of that.

I find that there are a lot of people who take an adversarial position to faith and God who seem to be pretty unhappy in general. I'm not saying they need to get God, but maybe there is something they're missing.

This is actually what's caused me to leave several churches. Belief in "a book" and literal translations were just too much for me. I've seen how it affects people that rationalize and justify pretty much whatever they like. The bottom line is the bible is a beautiful collection of songs, poems, history, visions (that all lead to Jesus). Scholars don't agree on much, but one thing they do agree on is it wasn't meant to be taken literally and yet here we are. Ignoring all the other problems with the narrative, I still have a strong belief in Christ in spite of the bible not because of it, as strange as that sounds. Experiencing the power of the universe at work and choosing to believe it's Jesus at the helm for me is a safe bet, I just have some doubts about how some of the interpretations are presented today from the good book.

As for the OP, I can relate to almost everything you're saying and NDEs have helped me see things more clearly as well. I've come to question the concept of "sin" and "saving" during my little journey. It's all about perspective isn't it? If I murder a man on the street tomorrow, I'll go to jail for life and it's a "sin". When I murdered men in the Army, I was given medals. Does God celebrate or excuse my actions? Was it part of his plan to have me kill others? The bible celebrates some pretty wicked behavior by a good number of people and yet we avoid this or explain it away. My point is whatever roles we're playing may include things we were taught as being wrong or "sinful". I've come to accept who I am at this point in my life. I am what I am. I'm not owning any guilt or shame for things I now know were out of my control and I'm trying to break the habit of judging whether or not others are "correct" in their beliefs and actions. No one really knows what's on the other side or the purpose of their life really is, but following what you're compelled to be might be exactly what's right for you. It also might be different for the person next to you. Respecting that can be tricky for some.

originally posted by: seedofchucky
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Pretty simple really ...

One thing Christians can't answer is who is god ?

Some say Jesus is god.
Some say Jesus is son of god.
Some say Jesus and god are separate .

Lets start with the basics first ... You will see Christians are torn apart on the simple question and answer....

If you can't even answer the basic question .. How are you gonna convince others ?

A Majority of Christians do not believe Jesus is god.

- A new survey reveals that 52 percent of American adults believe that Jesus was a great teacher and nothing more. If Jesus' claim to be God is false, then He was either delusional or deceptive, but He could not have been a great teacher.

Roughly 300K years of climbing the proverbial mountain to discover no one ever lived there controlling elements and dispensing karma has a certain effect on society. Now our celebrated scholars are digging between atoms instead of stars to find the source of "aether" or soul and returning occasionally with news of reality being little more than electromagnetic psychosis. Who knows.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

It’s not really for Christians to “promote” the faith, per se, I don’t think. Speak the Word. Give the Truth. Show the Way. How people respond is up to them (hopefully they repent and are baptized). Following are some scriptures that I believe are relevant (… but alas, I am still learning, so I MAY have some context wrong).

Mark 16:15 (KJV)
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matthew 28:19 (KJV)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV)
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.

Hebrews 3:15 (KJV)
While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

1 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV)
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

originally posted by: SentientBunnySuit
My pastor used to say "People don't believe the Bible because they don't know what it says. Most Christians believe the Bible because they don't know what it says."

I've watched Christians jump right past Grace to hitting people with Morality and rules. Christ died to set is free from the law. (Galatians 4:10) Trying to implement more laws is a direct opposition to Jesus' message and sacrifice. He fulfilled the law on our behalf. All we have to do is believe.

It's ironic that you can be forgiven but the rules and morals are part of it.

Everyone wants the "Buddy Jesus" who loves you no matter what your personal vices and sins are and will let you get on with it and let you in to Heaven, but no one wants to feel like God has any standards. However, this thread already has people pointing to hypocrisy too. In other words ... how can you be a Christian if you don't live up to everything in the Bible?

In short, the critics try to make you walk both ways. You have to be all forgiving, but you have to be all moral at the same time or else you ain't no Christian.

No Christian can be any kind of advocate for that, of course. It's impossible, but that's the point. People making such boxes don't ever want to see or understand anyway.

Christianity is the worlds largest religion; from where does the assertion come that Christians fail so miserably at promoting the faith?

It is true that Islam is currently growing faster than Christianity and may be equally in size in the next 3 decades; that has more to do with birth rates than promotion. Christians seemed to have slowed down on following gods edict to multiply.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I have faith in God. I have faith in things in the Book.

My life is a pretty happy one because of that.

I find that there are a lot of people who take an adversarial position to faith and God who seem to be pretty unhappy in general. I'm not saying they need to get God, but maybe there is something they're missing.

yeah, they never do nuffin wrong and don't need forgiveness from anyone besides their self.

or just ego centric. the same people who cancelled capernicus.

At this point in time I would have to say this. The calling is finished.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I would say with modern technology Christians have managed to get to all the tribes/nations/peoples of the world. Why? The existence of the nation of Israel for one. If a nation of Israel is a requirement for the Apocalypse then that verse was fulfilled between the end of WW2 and the rebirth of Israel. "God" isn't putting in the energy anymore. He has an Apocalypse to run.

a reply to: ntech

If that is so, then how do people still find Him?

Most Christian conversionists don't leave the audience a choice.

In my form of Christianity, one can choose their path, and do not have to blindly obey God.

It's very complex, and I'm not interested in explaining it here. Those who follow my form of Christianity don't even know that's what they're doing.