Matt Gaetz's ex-girlfriend testifies to grand jury in sex trafficking probe

originally posted by: geezlouise

She was groomed, coerced, lured, seduced (by fancy parties, maybe even drugs, other types of pleasure like trips to the beach, food, clothes, money, benefits, aka payment) and she was even allegedly intimidated/threatened as stated in this thread.

Really, OK we will see I guess. Wasn't someone that wanted to party in the Bahamas?

This sexual attraction between child/adult that you're dreaming about, that you so want to believe in, that you're fighting for here in this thread so hard for, is quite unnatural... it has to be created. And it is created by the adult by grooming the child.

You are throwing a lot of Epstein buzz words in the mix without knowing anything. My original point a long time ago was the left will spare no amount of time or money to get him because he is an R, while real ped rings on the left are a "nothing to see here" BS.

It's quite uncomfortable to know that there are men out there who really walk around thinking 17 yr olds actually want to have sex with ugly 35 yr olds. Or that 8 yr olds want to have sex with a 20 yr old. Or so on. How selfish! How evil. How disconnected they must be from their own youth and humanity.

Ya I agree no young woman would want to slept with middle 30 age men, it is so gross...

a reply to: andy06shake

You can join the military at 17, now if he trafficked her bury him under the prison.

But I am now curious my wife was 19 I was 31 when we met, we have now been married 16 years closing in on 17.

Am I a reprehensible pedophile?

You can even make an argument that paying someone is something we all do, buy a girl dinner, take her dancing, the movies go to the club and buy her drinks, all guys are trying to sleep with that girl they are showering "gifts" on.

originally posted by: andy06shake

So do you imagine that 35 year old men having sexual relationships with 14 year olds is the done thing in Europe?

I didn't say I agreed with any of it, just showing you the reality of the world.

Im from Scotland, legal age of consent here is 16, but you show me any 35 year old Man fiddling with 17 year old little girl and i don't imagine they would be much longer for this Earth in most place around the island.

Then why is it 16 then?

Legal age is God Damn legal age and not a child and not pedophilia... I say that in this case that he went to Bahamas to party with women and one was 17, but legal age still.

18 years of a difference between pedo Matt and his 17 year old he took advantage of at the time not 5 years.

Plenty of issues all over the place.

I agree there are issues, but she did go to party and most likely got a good deal of gifts, money etc and that most likely was her motive the whole time. I don't think she was an innocent little angel.

a reply to: Irishhaf

19 is not 17 through is it?

Im just curious where do "you" think the limit should be?

There is 7 years of a difference between my partner and myself meeting when she was 21.

But 21 is not 17 nether especially with respects to 35.

You dont go with 17 year old little girls when you are a full grown 35 year old Man Irishhaf.

Its just wrong, as most men know perfectly well.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well thank feck for that to be honest.

The reality is that is wrong Xtrozero.

As to why the legal age is 16 here, so they can have sex legally with other people there own or similar age i imagine.

Or so they can get married i suppose.

Trust me when i tell you through any 35 year old man hopping on any girl under 18 is going to be frowned upon in the extreme.

Its just not the done thing.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: andy06shake

You can join the military at 17, now if he trafficked her bury him under the prison.

The trafficking part was that she flew to Bahamas with him on vacation. It all came to light not because she came forward with some accusation of abuse, but some guy in the FL Government is going down hard on 6 major counts and he said well reduce my sentence and I'll tell you that Gaetz took a 17 year-old to Bahamas once. Then it was a "we got him" moment with the left as they spent like 2 years tracking everyone down to get him on sex trafficking since he paid for her ticket and maybe had sex with her there on the vacation.

But I am now curious my wife was 19 I was 31 when we met, we have now been married 16 years closing in on 17.

Am I a reprehensible pedophile?

You can even make an argument that paying someone is something we all do, buy a girl dinner, take her dancing, the movies go to the club and buy her drinks, all guys are trying to sleep with that girl they are showering "gifts" on.

Why yes you are...

Also, under the law, to have just sex with her is OK outside of FL, but to buy her a dinner and then have sex is not. God help you if you not only bought her a dinner, BUT also went to the state above GA where she is legal age and had sex...

originally posted by: andy06shake

Well thank feck for that to be honest.

The reality is that is wrong Xtrozero.

As to why the legal age is 16 here, so they can have sex legally with other people there own or similar age i imagine.

Or so they can get married i suppose.

Trust me when i tell you through any 35 year old man hopping on any girl under 18 is going to be frowned upon in the extreme.

Its just not the done thing.

I do agree with you here and not suggesting Gaetz does moral things, I don't even like the guy as a Goverment official, but I do see it for what it is and isn't.

Are you going to tell me that in Scotland if a very rich 35 year-old man came up to many fathers and said I would like to marry your daughter and the daughter who is 17 said I would like to marry him they would have huge issues with it?

There is an old story that goes like this... At 17 the father is cleaning his guns when boyfriends come over, at 25 with the same daughter if she is not married the father is begging men to come home to meet her.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Were you her boss, or in any kind of authoritative role to her?

Abuse of Power.

A ten(or twelve in your case) year difference at that age is verging on questionable. But I think the older anyone gets, the more acceptable this age gap becomes... and there are exceptions to the whole boss/employee and professor/student relationships too, which I think is still kind of gross, but people can find love anywhere. So, there are exceptions and you could be the exception, where you each regarded one another as an equal (emotionally and intellectually and physically), and where there was no clear abuse of power involved.

And of course, 19 yrs old is considerably different than 17 yrs old. As 15 yrs old is considerably different than 17 yrs old. The younger you are, the more remarkable the differences are even between only 2 yrs.

And the younger one is, the more impressionable they are to things like political titles, money/wealth, celebrity status, exclusiveness to things, etc. Adults are still impressionable too however, are still vulnerable, and can still be victims as well in these matters... no doubt about that.

a reply to: geezlouise

Nope when we were in the same sq we were in different flights, and when I was the direct supervisor of females, I always kept things at arm's length.

The only exception to that rule was if they found themselves downtown drunk, or in trouble to call me and I would come get them no questions asked.

It's interesting to me the differences, in some cultures (not third world pest holes) a woman half the age of the husband is considered ideal.

Also, my thought process once we figured out, we both had an interest, she was old enough to choose the military, she's old enough to choose who she wants to be with.

To toot my own horn, once the question of age came up she demanded to see my drivers license because she thought I was 25 or 26.

originally posted by: geezlouise

And the younger one is, the more impressionable they are to things like political titles, money/wealth, celebrity status, exclusiveness to things, etc. Adults are still impressionable too however, are still vulnerable, and can still be victims as well in these matters... no doubt about that.

Everyone mentality ages at different levels, physical age past 16 plays a lot less into it all. A very sexually active 17 year-old is much more mentally aged than even another person in their 20s who is not sexually active yet. So it is hard to paint a wide brush across an age and that is why there is such a disparity in the age of consent, but once a person finally moves into the group of being sexually active its totally diffident situation.

In this case the woman in questioned dated him over a period of time and wasn't the one to come forward, but was hunted down by authorities so more of a witch-hunt with other motives than the woman's wellbeing unless further info comes to bear.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Yeah... well, just because it's ok in one culture, or in a hundred, doesn't mean it's healthy or right. Human sacrifice was accepted in many cultures in history. Is that right?

The question really is, is this healthy for children? Is it benefiting them in anyway? The question isn't whether or not minors can be sexual, either. Everybody knows that 15 yr olds(and younger children) can be very sexual. We were all 15 yrs old once and when I was 15 yrs old, my friends were experimenting sexually with other people around our age.

To be sexual is to be human.

But being sexual doesn't mean that anybody should take advantage. Because most times it is seen that the adult/child relationship is going to be sex based, and there are statistically negative health consequences for children in these situations.

Like how does a 30 something year old really connect with a 15 yr old? If it's only sexually then it's reducing the child to a sexual object. Do you really think the 30 yr old regards the 15 yr old as an equal, and goes to the 15 yr old for emotional and mental support and stimulation? Even if they did, that would damage the 15 yr old as well (treating the 15 yr old like an adult when they are clearly not), forcing them to "grow up" fast, could have negative consequences. Do you think the 15 yr old feels validated, seen, and loved for all that they are, their thoughts and emotions and dreams and fears?

And also... 30 something year olds to a 15/17 yr old are like all knowing gods. The adult men know everything about the world, while the 15/17 yr old knows nothing about the world (in the perspective of the 15/17 yr old)- there is an imbalance here. At least, this was my experience. 30 yr olds are not equal to 15 yr olds and never will be. Even that one is so much bigger physically makes the adult far from being the child's equal, in the perspective of the child.

Again, 15/17 yr olds are way different than a 19 yr old. 15/17 yr olds are more easily threatened and intimidated due to inexperience. The younger one is, the more easily they can be threatened because children believe the threats without question while an adult might question a threat.

But I believe that a 19 yr old can be mature enough to connect with a 31 yr old in a healthy way, specially as men seem to be usually more emotionally immature- perhaps that's a culture thing too, doesn't mean it's right. But also, I believe that even a 17 year old could probably connect with a 21 yr old and form a healthy relationship- they are close enough in age to regard one another as equals. Because it's still all about the power dynamic in the relationship... and whether or not one is taking advantage over the other, or is reducing somebody to a sexual object. The child doesn't have the capacity to fully understand what is going on.

And I think that the laws give a good cushion of space for children to develop sexually without being subject to every mans lustful whim (protecting them from abuse). The statistics are that sexual abuse leads to a boatload of problems- mental, physical, and emotional problems. So while one has the advantage (getting pleasure, and/or money if pimping out), the other will suffer... these are the statistics. And these negative consequences can happen even in adult relationships, when rape happens, and any sexual abuse or objectification. But it's clearly more easily defined when minors are involved, due to their undeveloped mental capacities and inexperience.

originally posted by: geezlouise

The question really is, is this healthy for children? Is it benefiting them in anyway? The question isn't whether or not minors can be sexual, either. Everybody knows that 15 yr olds(and younger children) can be very sexual. We were all 15 yrs old once and when I was 15 yrs old, my friends were experimenting sexually with other people around our age.

You keep using 15 when the women was 17 going on 18 and a few years at that level is HUGE.

But I believe that a 19 yr old can be mature enough to connect with a 31 yr old in a healthy way, specially as men seem to be usually more emotionally immature- perhaps that's a culture thing too, doesn't mean it's right. But also, I believe that a even a 17 year old could probably connect with a 21 yr old and form a healthy relationship- they are close enough in age to regard one another as equals. Because it's still all about the power dynamic in the relationship... and whether or not one is taking advantage over the other, or is reducing somebody to a sexual object. The child doesn't have the capacity to fully understand what is going on.

That is your belief, and maybe you do not give enough credit to younger people. Today people see 24 as some age of adult hood, and the reality is you do not need to go too far in the past to see 15 was a working adult male and a women with kids already. So did humans change or has it been that people keep pushing what the term adult really means? Today we are seeing people in their mid 20s and even 30s that might as well be kids in the mentality that has been fostered on them.

When I was in my 20s women in general were 100% sexual objects, so what else is knew if a guy in his 30s sees the same? We also know nothing about the woman in question other than she dated him on and off and went on vacation with him. It seems she was perfectly happy with the arrangement over the years.

a reply to: Xtrozero

In 1800, the American birthrate was higher than the birthrate in any European nation. The typical American woman bore an average of 7 children. She had her first child around the age of 23 and proceeded to bear children at two-year intervals until her early 40s.

Google search

It was around 20 yrs old during the middle ages, according to a google search.

They usually had their first children at 20 to 22, when their bodies were ready for it. Yet abuse, rape, molestation and incest happened in the Middle Ages as well. There were few means of abortion, and a victimized girl could have a baby as young as 13.

I am only responding to you now because you're wrong and spreading misinformation. Goodbye again.

a reply to: Xtrozero

There is a way to be sexual without reducing one another to a sexual object.

People are more than just sex, people have emotions, thoughts, aspirations, goals, dreams. You can have more than a sexual relationship with somebody if you connect on these other human levels.

There's also the question of, having an early birth is dangerous for women. Their bodies are not fully ready until a certain point. Googled:

Experts say the best time to get pregnant is between your late 20s and early 30s. This age range is associated with the best outcomes for both you and your baby. One study pinpointed the ideal age to give birth to a first child as 30.5. Your age is just one factor that should go into your decision to get pregnant

Just saying, you're wrong. Stop spreading wrong information, please.

To me this whole thing stinks of a democrat witch hunt...

to be sexual is to be human... but i"ll add to that..
any sex outside of marriage is immoral and God was right in implementing the punishment of stoning(apparently He knew people would demand abortion "on demand" once sex outside of marriage was accepted by society)

anyway... you believe matt gates groomed this girl? get real!!

I'm closing in on 50, and when i was a very young teen, there was a 45 y/o lady in my neighborhood who was newly divorced. There were quite a few of the 18-25y/o males who tried to get with her as she was not a bad looking lady for her age... and a few succeeded in dating her... there was also one of my older friends who was 15 who mowed her lawn, did yard work and even worked on her house doing simple repairs to try and impress her. He claims he bagged her one night when he got her drunk( yes he got his older brother to buy the alcohol.) So here you have a 15Y/o showering the 45 y/o with gifts in an attempt to bag her....

So my question to you is were any of these guys "groomed" or conned into sleeping with the beautiful woman who was 45? Sorry... but i knew most of these guys and that is not how they would tell the story. As for if it was morally right, of course it wasn't, but none of these boys were victims.

Of course we treat women differently when it comes to age and sex(so much for equality right?)... most of this is because what women look for in men is drastically different than what men look for.

Some Women look for men of power(like congress men) who are wealthy and can financially support them(I mean why did so many women clamor to sleep with presidents like kenedy and clinton?).

From what I've heard, the girl lied about her age telling Gates she was 18 as she was only a few months away from turning 18. He isn't some pedo looking for underage girls,and the girl in question actually looked much older than her age... the girl was seriously trying to date him , so if she finds his age disgusting... that was up to her.

I don't think it would be fair to jail a man because the woman lied to him about her age when she looked older than she was. No man requires a woman to pull out ID to prove their age before they date them.... society kind of rely's on the honor system here.

originally posted by: geezlouise

I am only responding to you now because you're wrong and spreading misinformation. Goodbye again.

Pick and choose your poison...

What was the ‘Age of Consent’ in European and American history, prior to the 20th century? In this article, I shall bring forth evidences which demonstrate that the ‘Age of consent’ was indeed, very young, even by today’s standards. I will provide academic sources which show that girls were allowed to be married at the age of 10 years old and sometimes times, as young as 7 years old, legally. It was norm just over 100 years ago to see girls being married off at very young ages. In most cultures, the marriage would have been consummated at the onset of puberty.

1. Professor of history Margaret Wade Labarge

“It needs to be remembered that many Medieval widows were not old, Important heiresses were often married between the ages of 5 and 10 and might find themselves widowed while still in their teens.” [1]

Age of consent in America in 1880 was mostly 10 with no state over 12 years of age.

originally posted by: geezlouise

There is a way to be sexual without reducing one another to a sexual object.

People are more than just sex, people have emotions, thoughts, aspirations, goals, dreams. You can have more than a sexual relationship with somebody if you connect on these other human levels.

I'm 99.9% sure you are a woman... Men do not typically think this way as you stated above, especially in their 20s and 30s.

originally posted by: teddyvetter
To me this whole thing stinks of a democrat witch hunt...

Yeah, too bad the whole thing started back in 2020 when the Republicans controlled the Justice Department.

originally posted by: teddyvetter
No man requires a woman to pull out ID to prove their age before they date them.... society kind of rely's on the honor system here.

LOL. Men are so vulnerable to the hope of sex that they absolutely rely on the honor system.

Drooling dumb perverts.

I for one would never be able to connect with such a vapid soul who cares only for sex or even consider having dinner with them much less sex.

But I'm a sapiosexual... and having sex with dumb people is akin to something like beastiality- like in that one House episode where the genius is addicted to cough syrup because it dumbs him down so he can be with his partner. I understood exactly what he meant when he said having sex with her was like an act of beastiality.

Dumb people aren't sexy.

Beastiality is wrong. Child sex is wrong. They're almost the same thing... and the bigger the age gap and the younger the youngest is, the more wrong it is. And maybe most importantly, it doesn't matter what age the victim is... sexual abuse can happen at any age and has negative consequences for everybody involved. Risk of prison and shame and ruined reputation for the offender, and a boatload of unhealthy consequences for the victim.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Yeah, too bad the whole thing started back in 2020 when the Republicans controlled the Justice Department.

Kind of murky of where, when and how much "investigations" actually took place.

This is from May last year...

On Monday Joel Greenberg, a former tax collector of Seminole County, Florida, appeared before a judge and pleaded guilty to sex-trafficking of a child, wire fraud, identity theft, stalking, and conspiracy. Insider on Friday first reported the details of the plea deal Greenberg planned to cut.

In exchange for a more lenient sentence, Greenberg must “cooperate fully” with the government “in the investigation and prosecution of other persons.”