What if “Disclosure” Isn’t About “Aliens”?

It's possible that UAP could be human. Advanced or not. Though the operators would be separated from our society. Which would be pretty strange.
Where would they live where they couldn't be detected for centuries? The center of the earth? The deep oceans? The dark side of the moon? Any one of those choices would mean that there is a society that shares the same planet, and is thousands of years ahead of us. IMO that's a stretch. But what isn't a stretch" when it comes to this topic?
That's the beauty of it. You name it, I cannot say that you're wrong.
-ET
-Interdimensional
-Demons
-Advanced Insects...(my fave possibility)
-Interdimensional, Alien, Demonic and highly advanced insects...
Name it.
Could be a species that evolved within the bowels of a military land fill..
Could be living light beings.

The one reason why I gravitate to the ET possibility is that we can see the stars, They're there in the sky and we know there are planets out there.
We can't prove yet that there are other dimensions that contain intelligent creatures.
Hasn't been done yet. At least with ET we know where they might be coming from.

s&f

a reply to: LABTECH767

"But of course we could have been here before and fallen from that high technology"

In that case you're fallen because someone tried to teach you what you should discover by yourself, hence both of you were cursed and this planet turned not into a zoo, but into a jail. Stellar confinement.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

"Developing an advanced Physics takes little more than an able mind"

I agree. But it is with applied physics that you could fly, not just with the equations. That's what I was trying to explain: even if the guys in the Middle Ages could understand the basics of today's physics, they wouldn't yet be able to build any of your gadgets. And even if you dictate, one by one, the steps to build "the machine", they wouldn't know how to use it. And finally, even if they could learn how to use it... they wouldn't understand what they are seeing.

a reply to: Terpene

"To whom?"

To you and yours. And to those who decided to help there where no help is required.

"Does that include time travel?"

Yes, especially time travel. Time travelling to the future without changing the mindset of the travellers mean they will get psychotic on arriving. Time travelling is not about implanting someone from the past into the future, nor implanting someone from the future into the past. If your belief system and mindset do not match your environment the brain simply stops being functional.

"Is not the golden law of spacefaring just made-up stuff from sci-fi?"

No. Is just physics: you cannot observe events without changing those events somehow, and without those events changing you somehow.

No. Is just religion: curing one leper instead of curing all lepers was meant to teach you that leprosy can be cured, by you. Tomorrow.

No. Is just ethics: spacefaring is not about judging other civilizations, and is not about projecting onto others your belief system. It is meant to learn: not to teach.

a reply to: Peeple

"They defy the laws of physics"

No, they don't. They simply use physics in ways you are not able to mimic because their applied physics outexcels yours, the theoretical physics being the same.

I agree with you in that people is not good at keeping secrets, and that's the only secret: there are no secrets to keep.

The point is that sometimes people is trying to discover how rainbows are made, how they work, who owns them, where they come from, without understanding rainbows are a natural phenomena, not an artificial one. The problem is that there are others who try to explain that a non-terrestrial artificial probe is just a natural phenomena, without understanding that they are artificial objects. And the problem is most people call both rainbows and probes UFOs, without understanding that they are naming with one word quite different phenomena. And the problem is that people tend to forget humans are complex beings interacting with a complex environment using a complex tool: consciousness.

When you see a white unicorn in a magic forest under a sky with two moons crossed by golden birds, you know you are dreaming. You have a word for that state of consciousness, you recognize it as a human experience, a way of being human. But the unicorn is replaced by a glowing disk hovering over a usual lake, you enter into a distressful state because you have no way to describe and understand what you are seeing, because is unnatural, is not part of your daily interaction with the environment. You get mystified, or frightened, or depressed, or get mad. This is because you've been brutally disconnected from your reality, as a human being. You've been "irrationaly raped".

That's why interacting with exotic logic systems is so difficult to tackle: understanding them requires a new mindset beyond your biological reach.

You know all is about physics, though you all know physics gives no comfort and leaves you helpless in understanding the crucial questions: who are you? and why?

originally posted by: canucks555
It's possible that UAP could be human. Advanced or not. Though the operators would be separated from our society. Which would be pretty strange.
Where would they live where they couldn't be detected for centuries? The center of the earth? The deep oceans? The dark side of the moon? Any one of those choices would mean that there is a society that shares the same planet, and is thousands of years ahead of us. IMO that's a stretch. But what isn't a stretch" when it comes to this topic?
That's the beauty of it. You name it, I cannot say that you're wrong.
-ET
-Interdimensional
-Demons
-Advanced Insects...(my fave possibility)
-Interdimensional, Alien, Demonic and highly advanced insects...
Name it.
Could be a species that evolved within the bowels of a military land fill..
Could be living light beings.

The one reason why I gravitate to the ET possibility is that we can see the stars, They're there in the sky and we know there are planets out there.
We can't prove yet that there are other dimensions that contain intelligent creatures.
Hasn't been done yet. At least with ET we know where they might be coming from.

s&f

Thank you and good post!

You’re right - so many avenues to consider and chase on the UFO subject.

One point I’ve thought a fair bit about is the question, “how could you hide this?” or “where are these people?”

The hiding part could be accomplished - we’re adept at hiding things and frankly that’s with known technology - never mind versions of that tech that are many iterations down the line. There’s also options that include underground bases, huge swaths of the earth that are basically uninhabitable on the surface (think polar regions or a huge chunk of Canada, Russia and Alaska), the oceans, etc. Lots of options.

The hiding would be from other humans so we would hide this program like we already do other “secrets”.

From a “loose lips sink ships” standpoint, my experience tells me that’s not as big of issue as one might think. There’s lots of ways (from NDAs to threats of harm to simply eliminating access to cutting edge programs) that could ensure silence.

I imagine the program couldn’t be larger than a few thousand people at most. Could probably function with less. Compartmentalize the pieces - people have a function but don’t know other functions therefore don’t know the whole story. The number of people who actually know the full story would be much, much smaller.

Look at it this way… a company that has 2,000 employees probably has a handful or two of people who actually know what the next step will be and where all of the proverbial bodies are buried. A program that contains the largest secrets of humanity could function similarly.

That’s a long way of saying that I suspect we could hide a highly advanced program/knowledge of humanity with less trouble than one might think - particularly given an endless budget and the green light to keep the secret by any means necessary. The “rules” as we think of them would likely be out the window - which is part of what makes this hunt so challenging!

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: LABTECH767

"But of course we could have been here before and fallen from that high technology"

In that case you're fallen because someone tried to teach you what you should discover by yourself, hence both of you were cursed and this planet turned not into a zoo, but into a jail. Stellar confinement.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

"Developing an advanced Physics takes little more than an able mind"

I agree. But it is with applied physics that you could fly, not just with the equations. That's what I was trying to explain: even if the guys in the Middle Ages could understand the basics of today's physics, they wouldn't yet be able to build any of your gadgets. And even if you dictate, one by one, the steps to build "the machine", they wouldn't know how to use it. And finally, even if they could learn how to use it... they wouldn't understand what they are seeing.

a reply to: Terpene

"To whom?"

To you and yours. And to those who decided to help there where no help is required.

"Does that include time travel?"

Yes, especially time travel. Time travelling to the future without changing the mindset of the travellers mean they will get psychotic on arriving. Time travelling is not about implanting someone from the past into the future, nor implanting someone from the future into the past. If your belief system and mindset do not match your environment the brain simply stops being functional.

"Is not the golden law of spacefaring just made-up stuff from sci-fi?"

No. Is just physics: you cannot observe events without changing those events somehow, and without those events changing you somehow.

No. Is just religion: curing one leper instead of curing all lepers was meant to teach you that leprosy can be cured, by you. Tomorrow.

No. Is just ethics: spacefaring is not about judging other civilizations, and is not about projecting onto others your belief system. It is meant to learn: not to teach.

a reply to: Peeple

"They defy the laws of physics"

No, they don't. They simply use physics in ways you are not able to mimic because their applied physics outexcels yours, the theoretical physics being the same.

I agree with you in that people is not good at keeping secrets, and that's the only secret: there are no secrets to keep.

The point is that sometimes people is trying to discover how rainbows are made, how they work, who owns them, where they come from, without understanding rainbows are a natural phenomena, not an artificial one. The problem is that there are others who try to explain that a non-terrestrial artificial probe is just a natural phenomena, without understanding that they are artificial objects. And the problem is most people call both rainbows and probes UFOs, without understanding that they are naming with one word quite different phenomena. And the problem is that people tend to forget humans are complex beings interacting with a complex environment using a complex tool: consciousness.

When you see a white unicorn in a magic forest under a sky with two moons crossed by golden birds, you know you are dreaming. You have a word for that state of consciousness, you recognize it as a human experience, a way of being human. But the unicorn is replaced by a glowing disk hovering over a usual lake, you enter into a distressful state because you have no way to describe and understand what you are seeing, because is unnatural, is not part of your daily interaction with the environment. You get mystified, or frightened, or depressed, or get mad. This is because you've been brutally disconnected from your reality, as a human being. You've been "irrationaly raped".

That's why interacting with exotic logic systems is so difficult to tackle: understanding them requires a new mindset beyond your biological reach.

You know all is about physics, though you all know physics gives no comfort and leaves you helpless in understanding the crucial questions: who are you? and why?

Oh, how so, I have not fallen, I was put here on this earth how about you, there is one being that I know of and his followers whom DID fall.

You mistake and take my words in the wrong sense, I am referring to the human condition.

Though you know Humanity DID fall, there may always have been a HUMAN RACE and no I don't buy the monkeys to man garbage though evolution in action does occur, adaptation to pesticides being a notable point.

Humanity's or rather OUR spiritual fall is the allegorical tale and quite possibly very real tale of the garden of Eden.

They saw themselves and realized they were naked, God made clothing for them.
God formed you in your mothers womb, the body is more than clothing but.

We are the spirit that is in the body as much as we are the body, our enemy is and always has been the Devil but that is a subject for a whole other thread.

I am not saying that it is so but am giving you the thought that maybe the fall from Eden was one from a higher spiritual plane down to this earth.

As for the earth being a prison, no it is a Jewel among the stars, a tainted poisoned jewel but still a jewel that many others covet and always have.

There was a whole theory called the Pre-Adamite theory which posited the likely idea that there were humans on the earth before the fall of Adam and that it is from among those humans that his children found there mates, it was only after the fall of Spiritual man that the Watchers took notice of humanity however perhaps because they wanted to help themselves to the inheritance of Spiritual man which is locked away from spiritual man because of the fall but which is still there, they were able to reach and use part of it creating vile creatures that led to the great flood.

But before the great flood the material earth was probably ancient in our term's, probably had previous races of man as well as a pre-existent mankind whom lacked the SOUL of man that we all have today and which the devil and others covet to so much hungering for the power they think they can gain from it.

We are not what you think, I come from what you may call an alternative timeline or rather in my belief a collapsed time line and this time line you live in is a chimera time line caused by a quantum merging of multiple time streams creating for many the so called Mandela affect, in my world the book of Genesis had Jacob having a vision of God at Bethel and asking him could he count the sands of the earth upon which he lay or the STARS of heaven above him and telling him he would multiply his seed until they were greater in number than these, also having already told him as far as he could see from the north to the south, east to the west (including the sky in that argument) he gave to him and his descendants for ALL generations as an inheritance meaning that the seed of Jacob which by that time will basically be the entire human race not just Jewish and other Israelite descendants would also take possession of those stars and whatever worlds orbit them.

Oh the earth is a prison but not for us, for the Fallen Watchers, the Devil and his fallen angels and many other evil spirit's.

I do not see myself as fallen but as slowly awakening and one day to rise Through the blood of Christ

a reply to: LABTECH767

Also your argument about Rational is subjective and your projection onto other's of your opinion is limited by the scope of your own world view which you have to remember is Singular and not shared by everyone.

We are free to be whom we are, we are not free to be others.

I see humanity as in a current age of oppression by evil forces both corporeal and incorporeal, we were on the verge of a golden age but they have subverted it to achieve there dreams of world dominance (global slavery), to do that they are breaking the will of humanity and setting man against man.

When the NAZI's took over Germany in 1933 they did so on the back of a very successful scapegoating and brainwashing propaganda campaign that then continued and intensified under there rule with Radio, Cinema, Newspapers and public movements vilifying and paining the Jewish and other NON German community's as inferior, criminal rapists and worse.

We are currently seeing a re-enactment of this under global corporate hegemony as the corporations deflect the blame for there actions onto the rest of Humanity painting the human race as parasites, dirty and destructive of everything they touch but the truth could not be further from this, in fact the entire Amazon rainforest is NOT Natural but in fact may be artificial and evidence of a past super civilization and indeed a runaway garden that may once have fed millions.
Terra Preta a type of black soil found in the Amazon may not be natural but a creation possibly of some ancient civilization or even in an ancient laboratory, as well as this the very displacement of tree's in the forest has been dictated by the needs of human beings that ate the fruit's, spread the seed's and even tended the forest for countless millennia (Before the European conquest it was also said that south America produced up to sixty percent MORE food than it does today? and there are constant finds that are throwing the idea of our past population levels to the sword, a massive Los Angeles sized city in the Yucatan for instance with a likely population in excess of ten million souls, never mind the supporting farm's and towns and villages that must have required to feed it).

Yet today we are painted by an extreme minority and a misguided lunatic and low intelligence majority as the problem the earth is facing, WE are the problem when in fact we are NOT it is the corporations that have done most of the damage or rather those behind them, the old argument being then why would the corporations destroy there consumer base but the corporations are only a means to an end and that end is complete and total control of society even if that society has to be smaller for the ultra elite to keep there stranglehold on power, in fact we could feed more than ten times the current population and some studies say over a hundred times but we need to make proper use of the land and natural resources, no more corporate rape of the environment but farming, settlement and husbandry as these ancient ancestors once did.

I am actually not too bothered as I am spirit and know my physical frame is just a temporary state, I am with my God in my faith and my God IS GOD and I know these forces will fail, if they don't fail then WE shall destroy THEM and retake what is ours simple as that and that is regardless of if they are human, spirit's, aliens or even something as pathetic as runaway AI's, the true universe is a spiritual one, this physical one is an ongoing chemical reaction that is simply to achieve an end product for use in that higher universe.

Make no mistake you are in the midst of a war, not just for humanity's future but for it's very soul and there will only be one Winner, he has already won but the other sides don't seem to realize that and are going on as if they believe they can still win.

a reply to: Direne

No. Is just physics: you cannot observe events without changing those events somehow, and without those events changing you somehow.

How is that a bad thing?

No. Is just religion: curing one leper instead of curing all lepers was meant to teach you that leprosy can be cured, by you. Tomorrow.

How does that not break the rules? If you are already breaking the rules, why not cure all lepers?

No. Is just ethics: spacefaring is not about judging other civilizations, and is not about projecting onto others your belief system. It is meant to learn: not to teach.

Wouldn't there be a mutual learning, by any kind of interaction? What if I want to learn but no one is allowed to teach?

Ethics, religion, physics, all the conclusions you draw is still man made stuff.

Until some collective presents these rules to us humans, with a clear set of do's and dont's, and the consequences for breaking the rules, I say we are free to do whatever we deem right. And even then I would need very clear examples of how these rules aren't just made up stuff by T(universal)PTB, to cripple civilizations evolution.

a reply to: Terpene

You are absolutely free to do or not to do, and to have or not to have, to live or die, to remember or to forget, to love or hate, to laugh or weep. But you are an absolute slave of your biology and of the laws of physics. You cannot escape your being human. That's what you are, want it ot not. You are not free to be a rose, to be a bird, or to not be a human.

And as a human, you will eventually decay, degrade, die, and disappear. Face it. Accept it. You are absolutely free, you always were; but being free does not mean much when thermodynamics is at work: you are free, indeed, but not for ever. And the question is why, why it has to be like that. And the answer is this: it has to be like that, for others to be.

a reply to: Direne

Well then, glad we have that sorted... thermodynamics is just a fun dive into the more dense reality that comes with a certain set of dynamics I will have to adhere to if I want to experience it. I don't feel limited by them nor the time restraints given.

the answer is this: it has to be like that, for others to be.

It's just a fleeting experience, I will gladly vacant the space I'm occupying, for others to be, once I have completed enough revolutions...

Or are you saying by inhabiting the thermodynamically governed dimension, we somehow create the breeding grounds for others? Who are these others?

Maybe The others are actually our prisoners, as we hold the key to their existence?

Maybe the others are very scared we find out about them and their dependence on us and our consciousness remaining in this state... that is why they'll do anything allowed to cripple our evolution?

a reply to: Terpene

The driver of your evolution is curiosity, and the will to know, and the absolute necessity of finding answers to the questions you deem essential for you, which are basically where you come from and who you are.

The existence of aliens is just a neans to an end much as the existence of humans is a means to an end for aliens.
It is not just about trading and exchanging ideas and knowledge with other civilizations, and is not just about hegemony. It is about finding together the answers to the essential questions.

If believing in interdimensional beings, ultraterrestrials, demons, angels, gods, gnomes, fairies and whatever helps to be closer to the answer then be that belief welcome. If believing in something, no matter how bizarre, makes someone a better person, then let's applaud that belief for what it worths.

But if your beliefs prevent you from approaching the Truth, or if your beliefs imply the unnecessary suffering of others, or if your beliefs become dogma, then better to have no beliefs at all. The question is whether the answers you get will be valid for any lifeform out there. It won't. All you learn about yourself means nothing for an ant. An all an ant knows about the universe means nothing to you. What makes you think the knowledge aliens have gained will be of any use to you? What does the exploration of space by humans mean to dolphins?

The cat in your room pays no attention to your advanced technology, for it means nothing to him. It cannot cognitively apprehend it, it is cognitively blind to it. Would you be in the same situation concerning alien technology? Yes, you'll be. It is not the aliens are not interested in you and your achievements: it is that they are cognitively blind to even pay attention to it, much as an ant ignores everything about humans and their existence.

Unless, of course, you are interested in human-like aliens with human-like bodies, speaking human-like languages and feeling human-like feelings exploring Earth-like planets and behaving so humanly that the contact becomes a mere clash of civilizations. Those are the typical aliens, so typical that they are just a version of humans. And you know how that ends...

a reply to: Direne

I feel like we are not really taking to one another, so I just leave this...




The beings you describe would just push the ant off the book.
I'm sure there are other ways... Maybe you can't see them from your angle.

Between my two foo fighter sightings (a couple of minutes apart)...one night in November 1976, approximately 40 miles west of Washington D.C. --- I believe I had a telepathic experience with one of the crewmen on board the purported foo fighter. No voices heard --- mind you --- It was just a feeling that I could sense the presence of a highly intelligent entity...that was somewhere directly above the low lying, cloud cover, that occurred that night. That was one minute before I eyewitnessed it doing a straight, perpendicular descent to Earth (about 1 mile away, at about 30 mph).

a reply to: VulcanWerks

Looking at it from the same angle of the pyramids and other megalithic sites... just because the people lost their language or need to build such things getting lost over time doesn't mean they weren't built by people. The not knowing takes an illogical dissociative leap and says it must be: Aliens! dun! dun! dun!... of course the inside joke would be the US term "alien" or basically anything or anyone not from the US is considered "Alien" so yeah those things not in the US then "made by aliens" is obvious.

If they are applying the same meaning as in we don't know the number of that bus as in "alien" that quite possibly is the case in an actual logical leap simply based on how all else not US defense department is "alien" however not all pilots/crew have the same classification of secrecy so then is it's not alien it's need to know and you didn't see anything. Of course this is where military likes to be a bunch of schlubs on each other as it were truly funny... to look unprofessional and stupid whether one is retired or not.

a reply to: Erno86

I hear you, never seen a foo fighter but have read many accounts of them, usually appearing as glowing balls of light.

Back in the late 90's I saw something walking one night on my way home, now over here in the UK in Lancashire we do have some sites such as RAF Warton which do some testing though they are no where near as isolated or secure as some of those huge bases you have over there.

I was walking home and felt something, call it a sixth sense but I felt that spike of fear you get when there is danger and looked right up and straight at it.

Now back then in the UK we had yellow sodium street lighting along our roads and I was half way between the towns of Skelmersdale were I worked and Ormskirk were I lived hoofing it back home, the cloud layer was low and well lit by the light pollution turning it a dark yellow mustard colour in the night sky and this was maybe about 3am, I had finished my night shift at 2.30am and it took roughly 30 to 40 minutes to reach the point on my journey were this occurred in the small village of Westhead between the two town's.

What I saw was a circular reflective object, maybe a sphere or maybe a disc I only saw it from below and for a limited time and other than the reflection of the lights from below it was not illuminated, made no sound yet moved about as fast as one of our RAF Tornados used to fly when they were headed to north wales to do there low level training exercises, they always made a sonic boom but as I say this made no sound.

For the briefest instant me staring angry due to my reaction to the spike of fear and going into defence mode and whatever was inside it had this much of a connection, I could feel it was aware of me and had a fright back when I stared straight at it and it went from static to moving instantly in the opposite direction to the high wind that was blowing that night, I saw it dip in and out of the cloud layer before it got too far away for me to keep trying to track it with my eye's.

I did not feel that it was good or evil just dangerous for some reason but after reading account's I would suggest that the latter is more probable than the idea of it being nice guy's that so many dreamers want them to be.

This lady is a Remote Viewer so take with a dose of salt but remember your government actually used this technique as well.
www.americanantigravity.com...

originally posted by: Crowfoot
a reply to: VulcanWerks

Looking at it from the same angle of the pyramids and other megalithic sites... just because the people lost their language or need to build such things getting lost over time doesn't mean they weren't built by people.

100%. While I do have some curiosities about what the civilizations who built those structures encountered as it pertains to “ET” - or some other more advanced civilization that could be “human” - I’m also convinced that humans were involved.

Though I did have this thought once that the “shafts” on the pyramids were actually docking ports for craft and the shafts gave the visitors to the base an easy way to get to the bottom of the pyramid and to the underground areas. But I digress…

The not knowing takes an illogical dissociative leap and says it must be: Aliens! dun! dun! dun!... of course the inside joke would be the US term "alien" or basically anything or anyone not from the US is considered "Alien" so yeah those things not in the US then "made by aliens" is obvious.

I get your point here but I think it’s maybe not as much dissociation as it is an explanation - we don’t think it’s human made so the default would be some other species of intelligent life since nothing else on earth (to our knowledge) could build such things. That makes logical sense - but is predicated on humans not being able to build these things…

If they are applying the same meaning as in we don't know the number of that bus as in "alien" that quite possibly is the case in an actual logical leap simply based on how all else not US defense department is "alien"

Exactly. If it’s not “us”, it’s “them”.

however not all pilots/crew have the same classification of secrecy so then is it's not alien it's need to know and you didn't see anything.

Exactly! Same can be said for “fast movers”. This suggests to me that it is known, it’s need to know, it’s of great importance and whatever we do know about it is certainly not being shared broadly.

That could very easily mean earthly or non-earthly tech. I’d bet even people who are aware of the programs might only be aware of that the programs exist and have maybe only 10% of the whole story and that 10% is the least important or sensitive party.

Of course this is where military likes to be a bunch of schlubs on each other as it were truly funny... to look unprofessional and stupid whether one is retired or not.

Which is exactly what they want.

Your points would mean this easily could be earthly stuff.

Aligns with my OP in the sense that if you could figure out what the program is or what tech we have then you’d probably be as close to ET as you can get following the earthly crumbs. And those crumbs probably simultaneously lead you to whatever our knowledge of ET is.

Exactly! Same can be said for “fast movers”. This suggests to me that it is known, it’s need to know, it’s of great importance and whatever we do know about it is certainly not being shared broadly.

That could very easily mean earthly or non-earthly tech. I’d bet even people who are aware of the programs might only be aware of that the programs exist and have maybe only 10% of the whole story and that 10% is the least important or sensitive party.

The short terminology for that is "compartmentalization"

a reply to: VulcanWerks

VulcanWerks

This is the big question. Is the UFO phenomenon (and hence also the secret body of knowledge, and then what disclosure would be about) really about ETs or is it just about human built secret technologies?

It's worth adding that there might be some genuine reasons not to share this tech with the public. Such as that it can't be seen how it could pass health and safety concerns - both in terms of operating the vehicles and possibly also in terms of manning the craft.

Possibly the secret state might for example think that it's worth developing the tech and using it extremely carefully in extremely regulated situations with extremely well trained pilots. However to share the tech with the public would not only possibly lead to people trying it themselves and somehow frying their state and a few states all around, but also lead to having to admit the embarrassment of the state using the tech which is inherently unsafe.


This can still make sense in a highly exceptional way, the technology being a military exception, something to develop and keep secret for potential defence reasons.

Given that other countries would be at various stages of trying to develop the same tech, that would make sense. This is absolutely a given, by the way, and it's very strange that people don't talk about it. Whatever the origin of this tech which is now admitted openly as existing by the US government, there can be no doubt whatsoever that the Russians and the Chinese and the Americans, and easily some other nations, are at various stages of trying to engineer craft based on the fairly old scientific proposal on this planet of antigravitics.

Again, whether or not the Russians already have the use of this antigravitics technology for vehicles, nothing can be surer that it's an area they have been and are definitely working on in secret. The same for China and USA. Maybe UK, Australia, France, India, Japan other nations? Whether or not that tech which people have been seeing at least since the mid 20th century, now admitted by the US government, is created and flown by state agencies, there's no doubt the three big nations and probably others are at some stage of working on or towards that technology.

Allegedly it dates back at least to the Nazis and their bell, Die Glocke. The rationale would be that it needs to be developed for defence reasons, yet still can't be admitted to the public in case they try to "play with" the technological basis which may be extremely dangerous.

The question again - ETs or just humans - in one way it is the question which has always occupied me, but in another it is the question which rarely occupied me or didn't occupy me.

How does that make sense? I just mean that I usually didn't bother to figure ETs into the equation for this technology. I usually took it for granted that it was human made tech (despite potential ET experiences of my own.) So I wouldn't usually bother with the question itself. Simply, to me it was human stuff I think. Yet, then again, I didn't really know in the end and the reports of ET visitations are legion. So I still needed to come back to the question at times.

I don't think I believe peoples' visitation experiences, but I could be very wrong. I don't even believe my own visitation experiences (which I have little to no memory of, being an amnesiac and which I am not going to go into anyway).

When I say I don't think I believe other peoples' visitation experiences I mean I believe that they genuinely, truly and very strongly think they have had an alien race visitation experience. Just that they've been duped by a big plan.

What I'm talking about was framed really well actually in the overarching themes of the X-Files show. Mulder lurches the through the various seasons between absolutely believing in aliens, almost being utterly convinced in their existence and presence, to later thinking that it's all a big staged ploy. He becomes convinced that the ET story (and enacted drama) is created, a totally false ruse to hide various Deep State and secret society programmes which have been developed since his father worked in them and before.

It's so me. For what it's worth, I ask myself if Mulder's character was modelled on a young version of me? Hehe.

originally posted by: VulcanWerks

...
Lastly, I’m pretty sold on the notion that “defying the laws of physics” isn’t how this works. We work largely with the laws of physics but utilize technology to eliminate or minimize the effects of matter and gravitational force.

It’s like when people say “Anti-gravity”. It’s not “anti gravity” but rather a mechanism that can offset or minimize gravitational effects. Gravity is still there it’s just being worked with to produce what most consider “anti-gravity”.

Ironically, I have little faith in broader humanity sometimes but I do think that some really smart humans with a really unlimited budget could figure out some amazingly futuristic things.

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The prevalent theory (or knowledge) on all the cable TV channel UFO programmes and films is that, I suppose, the technology is indeed "anti-gravity". Well, this is the best that I can make of what they're saying anyway. As far as I can work out, they're not saying that gravity is offset or minimised, and indeed it gets into much more than just gravity for some theorists.

There seem to be two elements which indeed seem to be about "anti-gravity". Firstly, some claims are that the machines create their own gravity inside. It's claimed this is a completely self contained gravity sphere which might explain them actually being manned at those incredible mach speeds, with there being no high mach speed pressure to withstand, no air friction and no increase in body temperature.

That form of anti-gravity - or positive gravity but against the exterior, surrounding gravity - would be separate to the propulsion method. People have also been claiming that this can be anti-gravity by in effect creating a negative gravitational force of its own which literally pulls what's ahead of the craft in the desired direction to it.

It's hard to get your head around. Hehe - and this is all before the 'more than anti-gravity' claim I mentioned. That goes something like that the crafts manipulate the time-space fabric - perhaps though still pulling space towards the craft by creating a negative gravitational force, I don't know.

However hard it may be to come to terms with the idea of time-space fabric manipulation, actually I suppose the basis of the negative gravitational force as anti-gravity may be simple enough.

Gravity is a force created by the relationship between vast bodies where if you are near a body such as Earth, the body pulls you towards it with great strength.

Negative gravity used to pull space towards a craft is simply the opposite of that, I suppose - artificially created somehow.

Bob Lazar used to talk about gravity creators on the craft he worked on. Though I strongly am with Bob to a large extent (I mean I think he's not making it up), I also think it's possible that Bob could have been sold a pup by the his employers at Area 51 intentionally. I don't think he worked there long, and it's possible that Bob could have been part of some early test - either a method of weaning newbies into the place, or an early security procedure, or both.

(When I say Bob isn't making things up and to me he's true *largely*, I'm also thinking that it's possible that Bob is a set-up. It's possible he's a willing set-up, meaning he would be "in on" the set up, to propagate further the alien back-engineering story; AND it's possible that instead he's an unwilling, unknowing set up, not "in on" things - still though intended to propagate the alien back-engineering story.)

I say this because his story about everything connecting wirelessly without touching. It seems a bit too "Indistinguishable from magic"! Though maybe it simply makes sense under what Tesla discovered, is just hard for me to take in.

Therefore I wonder if Bob might have been played around with.

Of course, with this kind of tech, it's perfectly possible that what's hard for me to take in is nothing other than hard for me to take in.

Still... I just have this notion that maybe they were playing with him in his early days (maybe that's what they do typically), and then he was let go of before he got further into the system.

Nice man it seems anyway. He's been through a lot it seems.

When I say above theories or knowledge about the UFO tech by the faces on UFO shows on TV and in films, it's worth adding that it could well be knowledge. I mean that half of these people might be actually experienced in what they're talking about, but aren't admitting it and perhaps can't admit.

On th other hand, what they say may just be claims and when one person makes a claim, it becomes flavour of the month, repeated by most of the faces.

The truth is, though, that most of the TV and film UFO shows do often seem to present some kind of consensus on the technology, which is quite strange in itself. It's often the same if you go more independentl in video sites - youtube and so on.

These are all educated people on the TV and film shows. Are they just repeating amongst themselves the same things - as if they've all had the same psychic dreams - because it makes them feel safer?

Or have some of them really been clued into things? (In other words, the shows themselves might be considered as a very limited type of disclosure itself, whether sanctioned or not by those who think they are there to do any sanctioning.)

a reply to: Erno86

Also this is relevant.

There are only 2 main reasons that IF, I say if with big letters, if any governments has alien technology they will never reveal it till they have to. It has nothing to do with safety or aliens but for 2 thing alone, 1. can we weaponize it and 2. can we monetize it. In both those cases they have to keep it off the general population.
A good question to ponder, trying not to drift the thread, Who and why did the first ancient Egyptian come up with the idea to build such big structures like the pyramids. The theory is that they migrated through small tombs ie, mud brick, to stone mastabas to stepped pyramids (which really is mastaba stacked on mastaba) to full fledged pyramids. Getting bigger over time, but that does not explain the complexity of the great pyramid.

a reply to: ats0001

When Korea made a Russian Scud "super sonic" and hit a designated target? That was a feat. I am sure Russia is just as interested in the modifications made to their missile as the U.S. is as the U.S. said they wanted some of that "super sonic" missile business themselves.

Of course if Russia and Korea made it together? Who knows as the U.S. would be wanting in on the market of them... whether it's a spin or not to the public as if the US department of defense has them or not... none of my business. However, it being a Scud? It is all of Russia's business being their tech however modified it is. A joint chief of staff I am sure knows the intricate details of such partnerships or maneuvers.

After Russia bailed on the Middle East leaving scuds behind? Is what became known as "The proliferation" of nuclear weapons... that started the conflicts in the gulf.(is it one from there left behind?) If so then all those within range of those(Scuds) being the excuse for war in the first place should be concerned as it would mean either they were or someone was dealing in nuclear armaments.

As far as I know the current tech of super sonic flights are "unmanned" or unpiloted for those kissing political ass to get or remain in such a seat(don't even act like that's not the case). whether a human can or cannot sustain or retain consciousness in a super sonic vehicle or what that even takes to accomplish is unknown by me however sense many people have to train for months to withstand mach 2 without blacking out it is in my opinion that no they cannot be or are currently unable to be polite in a plane like fashion making them "drones" also there is a point where there is a communication breakdown where they cannot remain in contact and when that signal breaks down comes the drone... of course that just means state of the art is not in balance with the tech to advance.

Under different controls etc. then such a thing could be overcome.

Danger to the public is right; as SR-71 pilots had to use amphetamines auto injected as an emergency procedure and such a thing made it to the illicit drug trade... meaning the defense made it all the way into offense and in a strange turn? That illicit offense only in turn funds even more defense.

Most people would honestly say that most of the ideas or concepts of defense stem from "fear" so fear mongering and doom porn etc. is what becomes "triggered" in beating the drums up to war with various sorts of propaganda. It is diplomacy's job to downplay all of those "triggered" not “there is nothing to see here” but to all of those involved in or concerned about diplomatic relations? "Nothing to fear." Roosevelt springs to mind immediately in such a case that expanded the wealth of the nation through the department of the interior setting up the national parks as in "There is something to see here"; and going seeing and appreciating that? More people are or become willing to protect it. Not really as a moral obligation in the separation of church and state but an obligation out of pride to not only see America as beautiful but in keeping it that way.

Mao sort of saw the same thing; it's like his mind woke up one day and said "Where's China?" and started the move to restore it to it's cultural base or root of beauty. He is more famous for the 1st 2nd and 3rd world concept than his "failure" called the great leap forward by going back to those roots in the style of a true dictatorship. China is still recovering from that as the US is still recovering from entering the global theatre of war at all. Entering it didn't mean we didn't have defense for a SHTF and like the ant and the grasshopper story defense of other nations that do not build proper defenses for themselves it was displayed and afterwards an arms race ensued and has yet to stop competing like farts in the wind.

So yeah the tech and innovation wars... shouldn't have even been declared such a thing. As tech and innovation has way more diplomatic potential as a world effort of beautification than all the ugly of the past poisoning the well or wet behind the ears thinking that burden they will be left with in picking it up is or was ever a good idea.

cont.