What if “Disclosure” Isn’t About “Aliens”?

a reply to: VulcanWerks

Any ET civilization...that has taken a gander at our blue planet, would probably salivate at the thought of visiting there.

a reply to: VulcanWerks
The physical needs, dependencies etc, of ET is in the air. That will never be known until we meet and interact. In my opinion it would be very dangerous to try and fit human qualities on ET as they might have a completely mind set and motivations.
I think in the long run (unless there is a technological breakthrough in the technology ET uses and I don't mean the mythical "it's been us all along") it is all on ET to make contact. Will they, wont they, who knows.

a reply to: crayzeed

I disagree on the premise that foo fighters cannot cloak. They can easily cloak their starships, by using some kind of lighted plasma, that surrounds the starship, that --- imho --- is obviously contained by some kind of magnetic field of sorts.

And the use of laser holography (as camouflage), by these otherworlders, is definitely within the realm of possibility.

a reply to: crayzeed

The ETs', that occasionally visit our planet...have already made visible contact --- What with all these eyewitness accounts of UAP sightings.

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: VulcanWerks

I believe that its' a stretch to postulate that these wonderful flying machines, that defy the laws of any known physics, is the result of any earthly tech that we have here on Earth.

And since I don't believe in the possibility of interdimensional travel...I would have to assume that these interstellar travelers have broken the speed of light barrier --- If that is safe to be within the realm of possibility --- I would also assume that that these ETs' have a starship capable of constant acceleration, that would easily bring them up to the speed of light barrier, and beyond into the superluminal realm --- All with the capability of protecting the starship and crew from the negative effects of light speed, by having some kind of magnetic field that surrounds the starship itself.

Possible - I don’t know with any more certainty than the next person.

I disagree about it being a stretch though. 60 years ago the thought of using an iPad was barely sciFi - never mind reality.

Smart phones in 1960 would have been effectively magic, for instance. Never mind wearable tech. Flat screen TV? That’s Star Trek fiction at the time. To me, propulsion technology could be no different.

Lastly, I’m pretty sold on the notion that “defying the laws of physics” isn’t how this works. We work largely with the laws of physics but utilize technology to eliminate or minimize the effects of matter and gravitational force.

It’s like when people say “Anti-gravity”. It’s not “anti gravity” but rather a mechanism that can offset or minimize gravitational effects. Gravity is still there it’s just being worked with to produce what most consider “anti-gravity”.

Ironically, I have little faith in broader humanity sometimes but I do think that some really smart humans with a really unlimited budget could figure out some amazingly futuristic things.

I’ll add - I suspect the propulsion aspect of this tech isn’t shared because it would have serious implications.

If I could travel from Seattle to London in 15 minutes or less, I could work in the UK and live in Seattle (or Vice-versa). The ability to live and work physically in-person wherever you would would create major issues from a regulatory, tax and capital flow standpoint.

Some areas would see a population explosion. Others mass outflows. Job postings would be global - not local or National - even more so than now. I could decide I want some authentic Italian food for dinner and decide to go to Sicily for a bite - because it’s 20 minutes away.

To me, the implications of that kind of physical inter connectivity are vast - thus we are still flying on 737s that were built in the 20th century.

a reply to: VulcanWerks

Watch this, it does play into your theory as far out and wacked out crazy as it may seem.

Personally I do not ascribe to this idea but I do believe it may have an element of truth albeit a much smaller one than they are suggesting, history is definitely not what we have been taught as it has been given to us mostly by the conquerors and victors, take the USA for decades most of us in the western world were told and viewed the native Americans as Savages but when the record was set straight we realized that in fact they were the good guy's, robbed of there Land, Liberty, there inheritance and even there life by men whom often were little more than serial killers with a license and while the majority of European settlers were completely innocent it was this advance guard of mass murdering, raping, cannibalistic Indian bone handle making lunatics that forged the way for the less guilty later settlers murdering what the introduced plagues had not and wiping out the remnants of entire civilizations before wiping them from history to hide the truth of what was actually once there with the likes of the Smithsonian Institute being a major culprit in helping to cover up the facts by hiding or otherwise LOSING valuable and unique find's that showed that the history of the north American natives was far more advanced than we were led to believe, but history is littered with nations founded over the corpses of those that were there before them so it is not a crime the ancestors of modern US citizens are guilty of alone.

In the third of these videos they go over the breakaway civilization and the idea it may be older than we currently think if it is real and how empires are forged, kings are killed and all to control the world, even if you do not ascribe to the seemingly crazy, almost flat earth ideas behind this general conspiracy theory that video is definitely worth watching at in at least as far as it covers similar point's and what is disclosure if not revealing a truth that is hidden, could that truth be that we are all brainwashed and have become willing prisoners of a false history?.




+ this one is interesting as well even if you do not believe in this mythical Tartaria (or is that just a conditioned reaction?)


Of course it is probably all crap but it is great entertainment AND it may have a grain of truth somewhere there, especially about the controlling elite and how they are controlling society?.

(I mean we KNOW that the worlds fairs WERE built in the time and to the splendour that they did build them which just goes to show they knew how to build back in the 1800's, even though they were made with limed plaster though it is a shame they pulled them down given how beautiful there creation was. The Real scandal there in my opinion is how much money they were willing to burn when it could have been used to create permanent benefits for the US as a nation, great library's and new university's and indeed why did they not turn some of those fairs into just that given how much they spent on them, ok the Crystal Palace in London was built to show bits of the world to the Victorian's of the day and was basically a glorified steam heated over sized greenhouse but some of those later US one's put that to shame and went well and truly over the top, it was a veritable crime to tear them down if they could have been maintained)

a reply to: VulcanWerks

I just need to find a way to get off-planet. The ETs' have shown us the way...now its up to me for my ass to follow.

a reply to: Erno86

Funny thing about those ET's, according to the leaked Roswell autopsy reports in the MJ12 documents assuming they are real those aliens were pretty much Human's or one group of them were, basically humans without a working digestive tract or teeth and like adult baby's in there form while the other group were like intelligent plants so only one group were actually what we would call Alien, there blood was probably copper based and green smelling like Chloroform or were they genetically engineered?.

So until I see a genuine Alien I am going to assume they are from right here, if not a break away civilization then perhaps from a parallel reality which would make them extra reality but not actual extra terrestrial (parallel reality's are not other dimensions that is a misunderstanding on the part of science fiction writers though there may also be other dimensional entity's as well) since they would have come from earth just not earth in our particular time stream but earth whose history branched into a parallel reality at some point in there past, claims about the writing that Jesse Marcel drew being identified as a form of writing used alongside Latin Script in the Roman Empire are one notable oddity as if that is true then there reality must have branched before our Roman Empire fell and perhaps there's did not.

a reply to: VulcanWerks/crayzeed

did they give us the tech or did we already develop enough of it

Be with me along the following reasoning, please. Imagine we can send you back in time to the Middle Ages. Take with you whatever technological gadget you wish, the more advanced, the better. So there you are, in the Middle Ages. Your mission is to teach the guys all you know for them to build your amazing gadgets. An iPhone, a Tablet, a cleaning robot, an F-35, a laser pointer, or just a radar. You choose.

Would you succeed in your mission? No, you'll fail. Miserably. Why? Because showing your high-tech to a civilization which is centuries behind yours doesn't work. They need to understand the physical principles behind those gadgets; they need to understand, step by step, how those gadgets work, and they need to understand a lot of things before even building a factory to be able to build those things, not to mention they need to learn about manufacturing processes of objects using unknown alloys (the mere term alloy would be alien to them). In other words: they need time to learn. How much time? The time it takes a Middle Age civilization to become a 21st-century civilization.

There are no quantum leaps when we talk about progress. The present escapes towards the future at the same speed the past approaches the present. This is a rewording of the second law of thermodynamics.

And there is an additional problem you are all obviating: your gadgets, no matter how advanced, won't work in the Middle Ages (no electricity, no cell phone network, no sats, and so on). Your gadgets would be as useless for them as a stone, because things need an infrastructure to work. So, you see, there is simply no way you could push a primitive society and turn it into a 21st-century one. No way.

So yes, an alien spacecraft crashes in a desert and you rush to it to salvage whatever can be salvaged. It will be absolutely useless for you. Even if you meet the aliens they won't be able to teach you absolutely nothing, and you won't be able to understand anything of what they teach you: they would need three, four, or may be a dozen centuries for you to learn. Cognitive bubbles work like that.

If the spacecrafts you see are truly alien, then they must be just some 50 to 70 years ahead of you because, let's be honest, they are conceptually not far away from what you could build given funds enough. So it seems the conclusion is obvious: they are human-made.

Now yes, a quite different thing is if we talk about really high-strangeness events, those events that are so highly strange that we even lack words to describe them. Of the many events nurturing UFOlogy, only one, and just one, would qualify as high strangeness. And that's exactly the one you cannot be told, the one you wouldn't withstand, the one that must be kept off public, the one that must be silenced at whatever cost. Its revelation poses an existential risk.

(By the way, that's exactly what the Pope and the kings and queens in the Middle Ages would say about your visit: send the guys to the stake, destroy all those gadgets they brought with them, kill all witnesses, and forget about ever mentioning the existence of these people...)

Again: progress requires time, and it must be achieved by a civilization without external help. That's the no interference, no involvement, no interaction golden law of spacefaring.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: VulcanWerks
The physical needs, dependencies etc, of ET is in the air. That will never be known until we meet and interact. In my opinion it would be very dangerous to try and fit human qualities on ET as they might have a completely mind set and motivations.
I think in the long run (unless there is a technological breakthrough in the technology ET uses and I don't mean the mythical "it's been us all along") it is all on ET to make contact. Will they, wont they, who knows.

Entirely fair - which is why I’m thinking about this by following the human/earthly evidence.

I’d imagine there has to be some similarities between us and “them”, however. They would have likely needed to overcome social issues, technological hurdles, etc. Likely must be an element of team work, too - and they would have managed to create technology that could destroy their world but they managed not too blow themselves up.

I also imagine their society to be fairly homogenous (at least in thought) and hierarchical. You’d need a whole lot of beings rowing in the same direction and “playing their role” to make big advancement happen.

But, that has nothing to do with finding “them”… which is why I still think following the earthly path to ET might have a decent probability of success.

a reply to: Direne

But of course we could have been here before and fallen from that high technology, lack of evidence is not evidence against after all and there are story's of flying machines, weapons that destroy entire city's, sound seeking missiles (Arrows) and many other such things among Ancient Indian mythos and religion.

There are also depictions of what look like Mushroom cloud's and something that looks just like the WW2 atomic bomb's dropped on Japan from the ancient middle east among other such oddities.
5.28 mark.

a reply to: Direne

Just an amplification, or maybe a course correction(?):


Developing an advanced Technology takes time and physical resources.

Developing an advanced Physics takes little more than an able mind.

Although, having something to write on and something to write with, helps a great deal!

SPAM

SPAM

a reply to: Direne

There is that authoritative tone, and the somehow flawed analogies I missed so much.

Its revelation poses an existential risk.

How so? To whom?

Are you saying popes and queens were right to burn them at the stakes?

... be achieved by a civilization without external help

Does that include time travel?

golden law of spacefaring.

Isn't that just made up stuff from sci-fi?

a reply to: Direne

Ha
1. I love this

Your gadgets would be as useless for them as a stone, because things need an infrastructure to work.

2. I couldn't disagree more on this

they are conceptually not far away from what you could build given funds enough.

They defy the laws of physics. Maneuver in impossible ways. Faster than light. Traversing impossible distances. I think that is a clear sign that we're missing something bigger than just 50-70 years of gadget building. They operate on a whole different understanding of physics/the universe.

And people aren't that good at keeping secrets. Even something like the Manhattan Project where they put in tremendous efforts to compartmentalize and didn't even tell the people working on it what they're working on, people knew.
So how long would this be going on? 18th century when the first UFO crashed? Was it the first? What about the vedas? Talking burning bushes?
It's not a matter of 50-70 years, is what I'm trying to say. More 300-3000

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Erno86

Funny thing about those ET's, according to the leaked Roswell autopsy reports in the MJ12 documents assuming they are real those aliens were pretty much Human's or one group of them were, basically humans without a working digestive tract or teeth and like adult baby's in there form while the other group were like intelligent plants so only one group were actually what we would call Alien, there blood was probably copper based and green smelling like Chloroform or were they genetically engineered?.

So until I see a genuine Alien I am going to assume they are from right here, if not a break away civilization then perhaps from a parallel reality which would make them extra reality but not actual extra terrestrial (parallel reality's are not other dimensions that is a misunderstanding on the part of science fiction writers though there may also be other dimensional entity's as well) since they would have come from earth just not earth in our particular time stream but earth whose history branched into a parallel reality at some point in there past, claims about the writing that Jesse Marcel drew being identified as a form of writing used alongside Latin Script in the Roman Empire are one notable oddity as if that is true then there reality must have branched before our Roman Empire fell and perhaps there's did not.

Of all the scant, meager --- and unprovable --- evidence that I have collected about the ETs', who have visited our planet:

What some people call the "Grays", are instead, what they look like to me...is a Dinosauroid, bipedal, humanoid type species. Who, most likely...came from another star system that had a planet much like our own; where they eventually evolved from the dinosaurs, without having them enduring the same fate that our dinosaurs encountered.

So...to put it on a time scale... compared to our own Earth: Those alien dinosauroids would have had plenty of time to achieve the pathway towards interstellar travel.

originally posted by: VulcanWerks
I had a thought that I’m curious of the board’s take on:

What if “Disclosure” has nothing to do with “Aliens”?

Disclosure is talked about generally in the context of the existence of ET and associated tech.

What if what’s not being “disclosed” is entirely human? Or disclosure means being read in on what humanity actually is, can do and knows?

If the “truth” people have been seeking is far more Earthly than alien… it suggests the UFO community predicated everything on a false belief - the belief that advanced tech, propulsion and craft must be “alien” as humanity couldn’t have that kind of thing… which would leave people looking in all the wrong places….

VonBraun maybe hit on the idea of an “alien invasion” being a hoax but maybe the invasion already happened - the proliferation of “UAPs” and not “UFOs” - is the “invasion” even though everyone assumed the invasion was going to look like the movie Independence Day or any number of sciFi movies.


If I’m on the right track, hunt for disclosure should be rooted in playing forward history in a way that says humanity is actually ahead of where most think - kind of like the “third world” vs. a cutting edge city. Difference is those of us in “developed” nations are the third or fourth world compared to humanity’s true “peak”. Example - we played with nuclear propulsion for aircraft or spacecraft in the 50s and 60s but “stopped”… what if we didn’t stop? How advanced could that tech be 60 years on? I suspect far ahead of where we think it is…

If the above is true and there are far more human explanations for most of the “ufo” phenomenon… how would that change how you research the subject? What in history would be viewed differently than is common belief?

From personal experience and other knowledge I know there really is something to unexplained phenomena in general, even beyond UFOs. I'd confidently wager there is enough to reasonably hypothesize a nonhuman intelligence at least partially involved. In the very least, a whole new concept of investigation would have to be popularized in order to get any conclusive results either way.

Don't assume these are aliens behind UAPs. Possible, sure, but there are other possibilities as well. Keep an open mind about the phenomena