New Study Out Of Sweden Shows Covid Spike Protein From Vaccines Impairs Cell DNA Damage Repair.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
yeah exactly. Government don't want people dropping g like flies anytime soon. 4 to 5 years down the line when enough time has passed people won't put the two and two together.. a reply to: carewemust

Every time I hear, "I got vaccinated 3 months ago, and I'm fine!", I think of Obama's advisor who was recorded 3 times telling staffers to leverage the stupidity of Americans, when pushing their agenda.

It's like when a virologist asked the CDC, Fauci, and Gates how a vaccine was produced so quickly, when it usually takes years. Their collective answer was basically "a bunch of people worked real hard on it."

Have you noticed that a new Flu vaccine comes out every season, for the flu strains that are most prevalent during that season?

Why would you think that a virologist would ask such a question?

In the case of the flu shot, it's just a really well educated guess as to which strains to vax against. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss.

It's actually done based on data collected about 6 months earlier as to which strains they think will cause the most problems, because that's how long it takes them to manufacture the shots as they're not considered urgent.

a reply to: chr0naut

For anybody who is intersted, the actual title of the paper is "SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro".

You can view the full text here Link

The report suggests that using vaccines with the full length spike protein might be less effective than Receptor Binding Domain based vaccines, but didn't actually find any damage caused by the shot, only the suggestion that it might have a similar effect on the body to the actual virus (Which you'd also get with Killed Virus version of the vax). It's a two steps forward, one step back, situation.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
yeah exactly. Government don't want people dropping g like flies anytime soon. 4 to 5 years down the line when enough time has passed people won't put the two and two together.. a reply to: carewemust

Every time I hear, "I got vaccinated 3 months ago, and I'm fine!", I think of Obama's advisor who was recorded 3 times telling staffers to leverage the stupidity of Americans, when pushing their agenda.

It's like when a virologist asked the CDC, Fauci, and Gates how a vaccine was produced so quickly, when it usually takes years. Their collective answer was basically "a bunch of people worked real hard on it."

Have you noticed that a new Flu vaccine comes out every season, for the flu strains that are most prevalent during that season?

Why would you think that a virologist would ask such a question?

In the case of the flu shot, it's just a really well educated guess as to which strains to vax against. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss.

It's actually done based on data collected about 6 months earlier as to which strains they think will cause the most problems, because that's how long it takes them to manufacture the shots as they're not considered urgent.

6 months is not "years".

Since most of the COVID-19 vaccines began development in March-April 2020, the development-to-distribution time for them has really been slower than is usual for the Fluvax.

a reply to: Smigg

A coworker has been double vaxxed and now says he's anemic and they're going to try to determine the cause. I've been diagnosed as borderline anemic for years and take B vitamins. Ruled out other causes such as colon cancer or an ulcer. Maybe my kidney stones are the culprit since I always have trace blood in my urine but no bladder cancer. Still, I read that the anemic should avoid the vaxx due to possible blood issues. I'm not vaxxed and never will be.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: chr0naut

For anybody who is intersted, the actual title of the paper is "SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro".

You can view the full text here Link

The report suggests that using vaccines with the full length spike protein might be less effective than Receptor Binding Domain based vaccines, but didn't actually find any damage caused by the shot, only the suggestion that it might have a similar effect on the body to the actual virus (Which you'd also get with Killed Virus version of the vax). It's a two steps forward, one step back, situation.

While I can see what they are saying, the mRNA vaccines were seen as more specifically targeted than traditional inactivated pathogen vaccines. I.e. they should have fewer unexpected adverse reactions because their mechanism of action is a single protein, with a single chirality.

And, being an mRNA solution, the target sequence could be adjusted quickly, while maintaining that specificity.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Bnt162b1 is the other Pfizer shot that didn’t make it through.

It is an RBD based shot. They didn’t bring it through even though it produced higher antibodies. Why? Because it causes significantly more adverse events.

a reply to: Extremistcontent
No CTLs or no CTLs specific to the covid virus?

If it was research you should post links.

You don't know what a blood cell count showing normal lymphocyte levels a week after the 2nd vax has to do with a discussion where someone is saying the vax lowers lymphocytes?

a reply to: daskakik

I understand what your bloodwork means, I don't understand what it has to do with a topic on the general population. The purpose of research is to see beyond anecdotal evidence, which is valuable, but meaningless in the case of 7 billion people given an experimental gene therapy.

I'm happy your cell counts are normal, though it didn't break down lymphocytes. You get a higher CD4+ count with the shots, but a lower CD8+ count (CTL's). You also may have had cross reactive T-Cells that allowed you to have a good response. This is why we can't just look at your outcome and port it to the rest of humanity.

The spike protein was a target of human SARS-CoV-2 CD8+ T cell responses, but it is not dominant. SARS-CoV-2 M was just as strongly recognized, and significant reactivity was noted for other antigens, mostly nsp6, ORF3a, and N, which comprised nearly 50% of the total CD8+ T cell response, on average. Thus, these data indicate that candidate COVID-19 vaccines endeavoring to elicit CD8+ T cell responses against the spike protein will be eliciting a relatively narrow CD8+ T cell response compared to the natural CD8+ T cell response observed in mild to moderate COVID-19 disease.
An optimal vaccine CD8+ T cell response to SARS-CoV-2 might benefit from additional class I epitopes, such as the ones derived from the M, nsp6, ORF3a, and/or N.

Cell. 2020 Jun 25; 181(7): 1489–1501.e15.
Published online 2020 May 20. doi: 10.1016/j.cell.2020.05.015
Targetof T Cell Responses to SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus in Humans with COVID-19 Disease and Unexposed Individuals

This finding strengthens the idea that Th1- and Th2-biased Tfh cells are both relevant in shaping a neutralizing response to SARS-CoV-2, and that the simultaneous generation of these two different functional types of Tfh cells could be a favorable feature of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines.
On the other hand, Moderna’s mRNA-1273, which elicited a CD8 T cell response in mice [8], failed to induce detectable CD8 T cell responses in preclinical trials in macaques, even with doses as high as 100 μg [7].
A lack of CD8 T cell response to vaccines in which SARS-CoV-2 S is used as the immunogen is not too dissimilar to natural infection in humans, where the S protein has been shown to elicit relatively modest CD8 T cell response only in some, but not all, COVID-19 cases [70].

Vaccines (Basel). 2021 Feb; 9(2): 147.
Published online 2021 Feb 12. doi: 10.3390/vaccines9020147
SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Vaccines: Immunological Mechanism and Beyond

Broad, and frequently strong, SARS-CoV-2-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses were seen in the majority of convalescent patients, with significantly larger overall T cell responses in those who had severe compared with mild disease.
However, there was a greater proportion of CD8+ T cell compared with CD4+ T cell responses in mild cases, with higher frequencies of multi-cytokine production by matrix (M)- and NP- specific CD8+ T cells.

Peng Y, Mentzer AJ, Liu G, et al. Broad and strong memory CD4+ and CD8+ T cells induced by SARS-CoV-2 in UK convalescent individuals following COVID-19. Nat Immunol. 2020;21(11):1336-1345. doi:10.1038/s41590-020-0782-6

a reply to: Extremistcontent
I linked to that thread because it was also based on a single anecdotal exam and was saying the same thing you are. Also someone over there said it would be a good idea if some of us did that.

All those links show there was a difference in numbers of the 2 types, not there are none or even almost none so how did you come with the essentially killed part of your claim:

NK cells and Cytotoxic Lymphocytes are essentially killed with the gene therapy.

a reply to: daskakik

continued:

Alternatively, it is possible that the T cell response was itself harmful and contributes to disease severity. Consistent with recent reports from Grifoni et al.[17] and Sekine et al. [23], a particularly high frequency of spike protein-specific CD4+ T cell responses was observed in patients who had recovered from COVID-19.

This is very similar to influenza virus infection, where viral surface hemagglutinin elicited mostly CD4+ T cell responses, whereas the majority of CD8+ T cell responses were specific to viral internal proteins[24]. 

A higher proportion of CD8+ T cell responses was observed in mild disease, suggesting a potential protective role of CD8+ T cell responses in mild disease or a pathogenic role of CD4+ T cell responses in severe disease, which merits further investigation.

The identification of non-spike dominant CD8+ T cell epitopes suggests the potential importance of including non-spike proteins such as NP, M and ORFs in future vaccine designs.

Peng Y, Mentzer AJ, Liu G, et al. Broad and strong memory CD4+ and CD8+ T cells induced by SARS-CoV-2 in UK convalescent individuals following COVID-19. Nat Immunol. 2020;21(11):1336-1345. doi:10.1038/s41590-020-0782-6

"in individuals with a pre-existing immunity against SARS-CoV-2, the second vaccine dose not only fail to boost humoral immunity but determines a contraction of the spike-specific T cell response.”

"the second vaccination dose appears to exert a detrimental effect in the overall magnitude of the spike-specific humoral response in COVID-19 recovered individuals."

"Thus, these data argue in favor of meeting the vaccination scheme determined in clinical trials with prompt administration of the second dose in individuals without previous SARS-CoV-2 exposure [9]. On the other hand, individuals with pre-existing immunity against SARS-CoV-2 should be spared the second dose of the vaccine, at least temporarily, to prevent a possible contraction of their spike-specific memory T cell immunity."

"T Due to its observational nature, the mechanisms of the contraction of the spike-induced production of IFN-gamma in COVID-19 recovered subjects observed after the second vaccination dose were not investigated. We can only hypothesize that the effector memory CD4+ T cells expanded by first vaccine dose in COVID-19 recovered individuals may be prone to activation-induced cell death (AICD) after the second vaccination dose. "

Differential effects of the second SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine dose on T cell immunity in naïve and COVID-19 recovered individuals
Carmen Camara et al.
doi: doi.org...

IFN gamma increases the effectiveness of CTL's:

A high proportion of boosted CD8+ T cells were early-differentiated central effector and memory cells; the T cell population contracted and further differentiated towards an early-differentiated memory phenotype with co-expression of CD27 and CD28. This favourable phenotype has the potential to respond rapidly to infection, but has a limited capacity to produce IFNγ, and thus is less likely to be detected in functional T cell assays with PBMCs

Sahin, U., Muik, A., Vogler, I. et al. BNT162b2 vaccine induces neutralizing antibodies and poly-specific T cells in humans. Nature 595, 572–577 (2021). doi.org...

Natural infection induced expansion of larger CD8 T cell clones, including distinct clusters likely due to the recognition of a broader set of epitopes presented by the virus not seen in the mRNA vaccine.

Spike specific polyfunctional IFNγ+IL-2+ and IFNγ+TNFα+ CD4, but not CD8, T cells were evident 2 weeks post prime-boost vaccination

CD4 T cells secreted elevated levels of cytokines (IL-6, IL-10),(the two cytokines that predict severe outcomes) cytotoxic molecules (Granzyme A and Granzyme B), and costimulatory factor (sCD137; soluble 4-1BB) (Figure 3I). Additionally, modest induction of IL-2 and IL-4 by CD4 T cells was measured

Next, we compared the changes in T cell clonal dynamics with infection or vaccination. Vaccination was associated with a shift towards increased CDR3 lengths (Figure 4A). Infection was associated with expansion of large clones (>100 cells), while vaccination induced expansion of primarily small sized clones (2-3 cells)

Single cell profiling of T and B cell repertoires following SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine
Suhas  Sureshchandra et al.
doi: doi.org...

Infection with SARS-CoV-2 and vaccination against the virus have both been shown to stimulate immune responses and protect against subsequent infection14-20

Analysis of peripheral immune cells following vaccination with the SARS-CoV-2 BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine revealed alterations of transcriptional programs of several immune populations consistent with immune activation, but the highly augmented IFN signaling and cytotoxic signature observed in COVID-19 patients were largely absent.

While both infection and vaccination elicit vigorous immune responses, the difference in the nature of immune populations engaged and in maturation of adaptive immune responses is likely to impact the durability of protective immunity.

For example, we observed an expansion of circulating hematopoietic stem and progenitor cells (HSPCs) in COVID-19 patients that was absent from healthy volunteers and was not induced by immunization (Supplemental Fig. 1B). Increased frequency of circulating HSPCs is associated with emergency myelopoiesis elicited in response to acute viral infection33,34.
 
Robust induction of type I IFN through the activation of TLRs constitutes a critical aspect of antiviral immunity. 

Differential gene expression analysis of pDCs from COVID-19 patients and immunized individuals revealed a dramatic upregulation of gene signature associated with type I and type II IFN production in the former and not the latter 

Cell-mediated immune responses are carried out by NK cells, CD4 and CD8 T cells, and unconventional T lymphocytes like T γδ cells.

In COVID-19 patients, we observed an expansion of cytotoxic populations and a dramatically elevated cytotoxic signature in NK cells, CD4 and CD8 T cells, and γδ T cells (Fig. 4A). A significant increase in the frequency of proliferating T cells and NK cells was also evident in COVID-19 patents, but absent in healthy volunteers and vaccinated individuals (Fig. 4B and Supplemental Figs. 2C,D).

This is consistent with previous studies that show that reduced NK frequency and function are associated with increased tissue damage and severe COVID-19107.

Ellie N. Ivanova et al. medRxiv 2021 Apr 21
doi: doi.org...
Discrete immune response signature to SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination versus infection

a reply to: daskakik

keep reading

a reply to: Extremistcontent
None of that supports your claim that ctls are being killed off and one of them is about the rejected vax you mentioned earlier.

ETA; Seems it was two articles on BNT162b2. Why post them if it isn't being used?

a reply to: daskakik

LOL sure. You either don't know what you're talking about, and/or are willfully ignorant.

bnt162b1 has nothing to do with this, b2 is what was used. I was replying to zombie about RBD being b1, and causing higher adverse events.

ETA: this quote right here should be enough, CTL=CD8+

Spike specific polyfunctional IFNγ+IL-2+ and IFNγ+TNFα+ CD4, but not CD8, T cells were evident 2 weeks post prime-boost vaccination

That is authored by the CEO of pfizer fyi

a reply to: Extremistcontent
Sorry, truth be told I'm not really paying much attention.

So anyway, yeah something causing a reaction in one type of cell and not another really isn't bolstering your claim that they are being killed off.

Where are the research papers backing that up?

a reply to: daskakik

Lol. Good day. I have nothing else to discuss with you.

When you have something to actually contribute and anything to say about the posts you didn’t actually read. Maybe.

Otherwise

a reply to: Extremistcontent
Acting mad doesn't change the fact that everything you posted doesn't back up:

NK cells and Cytotoxic Lymphocytes are essentially killed with the gene therapy.

a reply to: daskakik

Acting mad. You didn't read the studies I posted, and you dont' understand them. And yet here you are. You don't actually know what you're talking about, I provided you with multiple studies but the sahin et al should be enough.

Its really sad that people like you keep going. Do you ever just admit you don't have a clue and shut your hole?

Why am I doing your work for you? Because of the others reading along. And to show that you are ignorant.

A significant increase in the frequency of proliferating T cells and NK cells was also evident in COVID-19 patents, but absent in healthy volunteers and vaccinated individuals

NO increase in T cells or NK cells when they should be dramatically increased is the same as "killing" them. Go back and read the rest or don't. I don't give a crap honestly.

a reply to: Extremistcontent
I read them and do understand them. You used my mistake in regards to the vax names to claim I don't.

Nothing you posted says the CTLs had been killed off. In some it states a greater activation in one type over another and in others it shows a stronger response to natural infection when compared to the vaccine.

Where are the studies that show the CTLs are killed off?

ETA: The same study that you got that snippet from also says:

Infection with SARS-CoV-2 and vaccination against the virus have both been shown to stimulate immune responses and protect against subsequent infection14-20

It also says :

Strikingly, while clonal expansion was readily evident only among the CD8 effector T cells in COVID-19 patient samples, the BNT162b2 vaccine elicited robust clonal responses in both CD8 effector T cells and in CD8/CD26 TEM cells, suggesting that the vaccine may be more potent at eliciting a memory CD8 response (Fig. 4D,E and Supplemental Figs. 6A,B).

That doesn't sound like something that is killing off your immune system.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Even if this is what you say, the spike protein doesn't continue to be produced. We know this because the body's immune response erodes over time, a relatively short time which is why they're talking boosters.

And any damaged cells will be replaced inside the body. They don't last forever, so any potential window from this would be finite.

I may be wrong, but don't cells replicate based on what is available, so if you have damaged/flawed cells then the cells replacing them have the potential to be damaged/flawed themselves?
Kind of like how telemores in cells chromosomes get shorter every time cells replicate until the cell cannot replicate at all.
So if the DNA is damaged in a cell, that damage is 'replicated' when the cell is? And so if damaged cells replicate before the vaccine wears off it doesn't really matter how long it and its effects take to wear off?

This is basically why we get old and our bodies break down and get ill over time yes? To overly simplify it.

Like isn't cancer essentially a damaged cell that replicates itself uncontrollably?
Or in the case of non-cancer cells, are some damaged cells incapable of replicating or able to be 'repaired' to factory specs?

Again I may be completely wrong here, and happy to admit so.

Edit to Add: And some cells, like Neurons do not replicate at all, once they die that's it they're dead and gone. So if they get damaged, there is no new cells to replace them what so ever. How do the vaccines affect those particular cells for example?

originally posted by: Dutchowl
a reply to: Smigg

A coworker has been double vaxxed and now says he's anemic and they're going to try to determine the cause. I've been diagnosed as borderline anemic for years and take B vitamins. Ruled out other causes such as colon cancer or an ulcer. Maybe my kidney stones are the culprit since I always have trace blood in my urine but no bladder cancer. Still, I read that the anemic should avoid the vaxx due to possible blood issues. I'm not vaxxed and never will be.

I now have elevated levels of uric acid in my blood. Double vaxxed. No idea if it’s related, but I didn’t have it before, can lead to gout and kidney stones and can be a sign of kidney disease, just found out this past Friday when I went to the hospital for chest pain again, oddly enough. I’m trying a low purine diet to see where that leads, my filtration rate seems fine and other markers like creatinine were in the expected ranges. Got me concerned, but seems like a fairly common condition too. No idea if there is any causation from the jab, but I had this blood work done in 2020 and didn’t have the problem.