Being in the ordinary grace of God - a treatise on the normality of our relationship with God

a reply to: glend

You cannot believe in the son of man if you believe that you are your own mind.

Why believe in anything?

There's no need to believe.....just see and hear and wording stops (words make believe).

Then what is there?

a reply to: glend

The disciples didn't eat the flesh of Jesus so the message is metaphoric.

We've already established that. The message is what Jesus said it was, that the sacrifice of his body was being made for the remission of sins. That's why he's referred to as the "Lamb" throughout many places of the Bible.

Those that follow the path of Jesus flesh will receive spiritual (blood) atonement.

Following the "path" of Jesus isn't what Jesus said would bring salvation. A requirement of salvation is knowing that Jesus was WHO he said he was, as he has stated...

John 8:23-24

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Matthew 10:32-34

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Remember, Jesus was the one who was given all authority over heaven and earth as the one to judge it, as he is also the one who created it.

Matthew 28:16-18

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

There's no need to believe"

So you saying christianity is false doctrine....

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. -- John 3:36

a reply to: glend
Christ and Christianity are not the same.

All the disharmony, conflict and strife that exist between one religion and another arise only because most of the followers of those religions are too attached to a dualistic view of reality, which limits their vision and prevents them from seeing what all religions have in common, namely the one underlying truth of non-duality.

Many religious people believe that it is blasphemy or sacrilege to say that we are one with God, because they mistake such a statement to mean that an individual is claiming himself to be God. But when we say that we are God, what we mean is not that we as a separate individual are God, which would be absurd, but that we are not an individual separate from God. By thus denying that we have any existence or reality separate from God, we are affirming that the reality we call God is one, whole and undivided.

If instead we were to claim that we are in reality separate from God, as most religious people believe us to be, that would be blasphemy or sacrilege, because it would imply that God is not the one and only reality.

He alone truly exists, and all else that seems to exist as separate from him is in fact nothing but an illusion or false appearance whose sole underlying reality is God.

The Non-Dual Vision of Jesus Christ and the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi | Non-duality | Advaita |Christianity – Tom Das
tomdas.com...

"The Father and I are one"........is non-dualism.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Here's a question, if life was all good, and there was no wars, no poverty and only good health and happiness, and that's all there ever was and has been

Would we have the PlayStation 5?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
I think you will like this one...... it's the prodigal son story:
"The Nondual Teachings of Jesus - Homecoming"

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The Non-Dual Vision of Jesus Christ and the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi | Non-duality | Advaita |Christianity – Tom Das
tomdas.com...

That may be the teaching of Sri Ramana Maharshi, but that's not what Jesus himself taught. Have you noticed some of the changes he made in his commentary, such as...

‘If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?’ (Matthew 16.24-26, and also Mark 8.34-37 and Luke 9.23-25).

...Therefore, whatever we may gain or achieve in this world, we do so at the cost of losing our real self, the state of perfection and wholeness (which in this context is what Christ means by the term our ‘own soul').

There is no "our" soul. We have our own individual souls that will live on in a place that is being prepared for us by Jesus (John, chapter 14). As the previous verses I posted earlier pointed out, Jesus said he was from above and we are from below. Our souls did not exist before our bodies, but the Spirit of Jesus has existed from the beginning with God as it states in the book of John, chapter 1.

a reply to: Deetermined

Jesus said he was from above and we are from below.

That's the doctrine of Christianity.
Christianity is about division and duality (like many religions).

I have heard the term...As above so below.

I agree that there is no 'our' separate soul.......

One soul.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You can believe whatever you want, but there is no difference between Christ and Christianity. You can't separate Christ from his own teachings, although you can try, but that's not the "reality" of the Bible. What I don't understand is why people try to make Jesus the focal point of their own religion, but then again, half truths and lies are exactly how Satan works and Jesus warned us about that too. You don't have to believe the Bible either, but then you'd have to ask yourself why you try to use it to make your point. If you want the type of "oneness" that YOU have defined, go start the religion of Marharshism, because it's not biblical. God doesn't become "all in all" until after Jesus puts all of God's enemies under his feet, like he said. By that time, we will have already moved on from this human existence. Yes, God has enemies that aren't one with him. Go look it up.

a reply to: Deetermined

Why believe in anything?

There's no need to believe.....just see and hear and wording stops (words make believe).

Then what is there?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I think you will like this one...... it's the prodigal son story:
"The Nondual Teachings of Jesus - Homecoming"

This is what happens when you take the word of someone who twists scriptures when the scriptures themselves are plain as day as to the moral of that story of the prodigal son in Luke, chapter 15...

Luke 15:7

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:10

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Luke 15:18

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in Luke 15 that suggests that Jesus ever told any of them that they didn't need to repent or that they were automatically heirs of his inheritance. Mr. Davis made that one up.

a reply to: DAVG1980

To entertain the question...

Often the question of a life that was all good comes up, I think you could still have that PlayStation. Seems off-topic, but brought to mind this line of thought for me...

Unity and the nature of duality are in the background of philosophical inquiry. The world can be described as being framed between two extremes and manifesting in various qualities and proportions. Light/dark, +/-, and Good/evil for example.

How could we have one without the other? Imo, the perception of unity can look at life as manifesting between wisdom and compassion rather than good and evil. Armed with the truth, hopefully, someone can practice using wisdom and compassion creatively to disarm the ignorance from which all darkness stems.

In other words, it reminds me of some of the more difficult tests I've written post-secondary. Several answers are provided. Two tend to be wrong, write off the bat. Two are right, but one is better than the other. No part marks, either.

Eh, it's like you have the choice in life to choose between good and better, rather than negative or positive once you know yourself well enough to practice confidently facing the odds, no matter how great. The freedom to live the dream.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

How could we have one without the other? Imo, the perception of unity can look at life as manifesting between wisdom and compassion rather than good and evil. Armed with the truth, hopefully, someone can practice using wisdom and compassion creatively to disarm the ignorance from which all darkness stems.

Not all darkness stems from ignorance. The majority of it stems from a false sense of power, greed, and selfishness.

In other words, it reminds me of some of the more difficult tests I've written post-secondary. Several answers are provided. Two tend to be wrong, write off the bat. Two are right, but one is better than the other. No part marks, either.

Eh, it's like you have the choice in life to choose between good and better, rather than negative or positive once you know yourself well enough to practice confidently facing the odds, no matter how great. The freedom to live the dream.

Once again, the definition of what's good and/or better has to be the same among the masses, and they aren't. We'll never get people to agree on what's good or better for them. Then you have the deception at the top that tries to convince people that something is good or better, when it's the total opposite. This is never going to equal itself out.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I feel much the same way, I feel that honesty helps to look after us. It can provide on the fly help, stemming from the heart not necessarily the mind.

I dream sometimes of a city in the desert, and the book of Isaiah is incredibly inspiring. I find Isaiah 58, verses 6 through 12 stand out for me.

“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the Lord will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.

“If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.
11 The Lord will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.
12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

The world can be described as being framed between two extremes and manifesting in various qualities and proportions. Light/dark, +/-, and Good/evil for example.

This sounds remarkably like something I read in CG Jungs, psychology and the Occult, where he asks the spirit that is inside a 15 Yr old girl, I suppose channeled is the word
The spirit replying to the meaning of life as it consisting of on one side the light and the other the power of attraction

So light is both good and evil and everything in between, its what you attract from it, due to your feelings, thoughts and actions

Ask and ye will receive

Thanks

a reply to: Deetermined

Imo, ignorance is at the root. If individuals knew better they would do better. Sin often suggests that taking the high road is a fool's wager.

Often it takes others to show us that there is a way to live where you can have your cake and eat it too. Individuals who focus on service to self are in for a rude awakening. They are hurting themselves. Hopefully, they learn to turn away from the evil they practise before their last day. Christ asking our Father to forgive them for they know what not they do comes to mind.

Good and/or better aren't necessary to be the same for the masses. I was describing someone's subjective perception of life and the choices they make. Reconciling the differences on a personal level is all that is necessary to start practicing thinking outside the box. That freedom allows someone to add gravity and influence to be the change. It is better to light a candle, than curse the darkness.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

You aren't saying anything different than what hundreds of others have said before you, but it hasn't been changing anything, There's a reason for that and people need to wake up to it. The power of positive thinking and individual positive change isn't changing a damn thing overall.

While we would all like to think that the truly greedy power mongers will learn from their mistakes, they don't and they don't care. It's an addiction of self destruction that usually doesn't end until they destruct and bring others down with them during the process. Have you ever known anyone with an addiction? A large number of them fall off the wagon and resort to their old ways, even when they know the consequences! That is where we are today in general and sometimes there's no recovering from it without supernatural intervention, which is pretty much what the Bible tells us is going to happen anyway.

a reply to: Deetermined

I was actually digging up a link to hyperlink that Chinese proverb, I ended the last post with. It's about me and some neighbours of mine who were wrestling with addiction issues.

I prefer to focus closer to home when it comes to trying to improve our situation. The rabbit holes aren't without their merits, but there comes a point where you have to settle on practicing doing your best to embody the principles you stand for. The rest can be considered a distraction, spiritual growth in the face of adversity is one of the best outcomes investigating the topics in our community. It's part of what I find so special about ATS. I get the impression interest in these topics is more casual elsewhere for those who haven't dug deep.

In my perspective, most people cut themselves short when it comes to the dreams they have for themselves. It's important to dream big and practise using integrity to help manifest the goals we have for ourselves. It's a subtle thing, and coming from a good place offers someone an advantage over those who practice integrity without the right intent.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Do whatever you have to in order to keep up the good work! Just don't let it get to you when others aren't capable of seeing it or handling it as well as you do, especially if or when you start feeling outnumbered.

a reply to: Deetermined

Thank you. Idk, it just sounds so pie in the sky talking about it. It can work, and when it works for you, you want others to share a piece of that. I feel fortunate to see how it can work, but it wasn't always that way. I feel the prophets had a really long-term view in much of what they describe.

Many don't believe in the last day or have a shorter-term view of life. I believe that the power of faith can help us beyond time and space. I like to imagine most individuals find the Holy Spirit through gentle loving change, but realize that often it can be a trial by fire.