Being in the ordinary grace of God - a treatise on the normality of our relationship with God

Hi ATS,

My most recent thread was extremely depressing in several regards, it was based around the way that we as a world are being slowly crushed under the hand of deceivers who desire nothing but death & servitude for the great majority of people on the Earth.

As a result, I wanted my next thread to be a little more positive & optimistic, some hypothesis or theory which can convey hope to the peoples, without any concern for the darkness which is overtaking our society today, through the mechanisms of the artificial crisis surrounding the alleged COVID pandemic.

And so, without further ado (concentrating for as little time as possible on the works of our Enemy), I can introduce you to the concept of '..Being in the ordinary grace of God - a treatise on the normality of our relationship with God'.

What do I mean, when I say that our relationship with God is 'normal'? Surely we've been taught since time immemorial that only certain 'holy' people have a particular relationship with God? The saints, the martyrs, the apostles - and in these modern times, perhaps the ministers, the monks & nuns, bishops - special folk of many denominations, but surely not us ordinary, common folk?

Well, if you believe that God reserves a relationship with Him to the 'special' or 'chosen' people only, you would be wrong. And I want that to be an encouragement, to everyone who has ever wondered if God might want anything to do with them, perhaps they've made mistakes, perhaps they have misunderstood who God is & what a relationship with Him actually means...

The truth is, yes, there are certain people who have committed their entire lives to God, who enjoy a special reciprocal relationship with God, to a higher extent than we ourselves would, as ordinary folk going about our ordinary lives. But the truth is, by the very fact that you wake up each morning feeling more or less 'okay in yourself' (comfortable in your own skin, peaceful in your heart, enjoying the simple pleasures of life & carrying on in a more or less happy manner with the activities of your life) - then you, good sir or good lady, are blessed to be walking, living & talking in the 'ordinary grace of God'.

What I mean by this, is that you are only enabled to feel at peace, calm & positive, optimistic & engaged with the circumstances of your life, if you are connected in your spirit to the Spirit of God, who gives you a constant river of His grace in which your emotions, state of mind & heart, and the ordinary flow of your needs, hopes, dreams & desires, all can be fulfilled in a more or less satisfactory manner. You may not always be overflowing with joy, you may not always feel 100% happy with your life & circumstances, but in truth, you are connected to the heart of God, you are able to 'live, move & have your being' within the very mind of God, which essentially is where the entire universe resides. We are dreams in the mind of God, living in the Universe He created for the purpose of bringing sentient beings into being, with whom He & we could enjoy relationship.

When I was younger, I was a believer, but I was rebellious, and had holdover carnality, a hedonistic mindset, and I would go drinking, playing dangerous games when I should have been home with my family, bringing my life into a better state of order. However, I was young, I had been damaged by trauma in my adolescence, and so in effect I was a broken man & needed fixing. Nothing that anyone could say or do would have been able to change me, these problems were deep-rooted & required, in effect, some sort of miracle to shift. What happened to resolve the problem was also deeply traumatic, but there was an element of severe discipline required - "God disciplines those whom He loves", as the scripture tells us, and so looking back I'm thankful that, as every good father should, he chose to discipline me, humble me & call me to order.

What happened next was painful - I suddenly, in the course of a single night, developed a very severe case of depression. It wasn't a 'normal' depression, where it came on gradually & was related to things I was upset about or worried about, etc. This was a temporary removal of the connection to God which is the channel now known to me as the 'ordinary grace of God'. All of a sudden, I was so deeply & horrifyingly depressed that I could barely move. I felt that I was a scourge on the universe, it was as though my very presence was loathed by every particle in Creation, it felt at the time. I was certain that I was apostate, that I had suffered the final judgment of God, that He had cut me off from His presence forever, that my salvation was lost, that I would never set foot in the Heavenly places, that only a dark, terrible hole in the ground awaited me.

The feeling of being disconnected from God was so palpable, it was incredibly obvious to me that the connection had been apparently severed. I had absolutely no enjoyment of anything at all in life, I could barely look at my two healthy, happy children, the best I could achieve in terms of daily activities was to move from my bed to the kitchen for a smoke or two, then back to the bed. I was assessed on the scale of depressive measure by a psychiatrist, and was found to be 'level 1/10 - unresponsive, barely able to engage with any stimulus', which is one stage above 'level 0/10 - catatonic, totally unresponsive to any stimulus'. I would lay down on my bed, or the sofa, I would try to watch TV but simply could not engage with it at all, I had no interest in anything at all, nothing whatsoever.

The nightmare went on for eight whole months. A friend I made at the time, through having gone to church seeking help, seeking perhaps deliverance ministry to clear my soul & spirit of anything demonic which could be causing it (because I had experienced several attacks by demonic beings in both waking & sleeping, it was very apparent to me that my ordinary protection from such things had evaporated, I was vulnerable, an easy target, a plaything of the Enemy). This friend was awesome - despite my inability to fully respond to his efforts, he would visit once a week & spend time praying with me, trying to comfort & reassure me. Again & again we prayed, and he kept receiving assurance from the Spirit that I was not lost, that this situation would change, at the right time. But again & again, despite at first being reassured, I would slide back into abject terror that only Hell awaited me, both in this life & in the life to come.

Thankfully, eight months after it began, it was over. I had a night of violent confrontations with demonic spirits, I was literally dragged out of my body & thrown about in the astral realm, battered & confused, slamming back into my body, the whole process would repeat until I eventually fell asleep from exhaustion. I had dreams within dreams, false awakenings, assault by demonic hordes in other dreams - until right at the end, literally at the dawn, I dreamt a certain dream which explained how I was to focus on guiding my children for the time being, with key instructions which were to act as 'standing orders' as to how I was to engage with life (I have a disability, so my capacity to engage with life is limited in certain ways..)

CONTINUED...

...I was taken to stand at the very edge of Heaven itself, with an angel as my guide. He told me that I couldn't step over the border while I was still livingon the Earth (a low stone wall, engraved with seemingly magical symbols marked the boundary), but that I should hold onto Hope, because one day I would enter, when it was the right time, when my work on Earth had been completed.

At that very moment, I awoke, for real this time (many false awakenings had confused me previously) - the first thing I heard was beautiful birdsong outside my window, crystal clear, melodious & reverent.. I opened my eyes & saw bright early morning sunlight streaming through the curtains, and as I experienced these two sensations, one of sight, one of sound, I suddenly became aware of a third sensation - bright joy, fire & passion, rising in my heart, the emotion of purest joy, the most wonderful feeling I had ever known, and likely that I ever will know, while here on Earth. I knew instinctively that I had been healed & delivered from the darkness of deep & terrible depression which had held me in its claws for eight long months. I knew as well that the punishment had been necessary, because my 'backsliding' had been severe. But God wasn't done with me yet, and I felt a potent sense of my place in His kingdom, as a loved & blessed son, someone who had work to do, and finally I was back on track, though at that time my standing orders were simple, straightforward, humble - exactly what I needed, to recover my strength & my ability to overcome difficult circumstances in the future.

What I had experienced in my depression was not the addition of anything, nothing like the indwelling possession of a demonic power (though I was certainly attacked & oppressed at various times during those eight months, being vulnerable as I was). No, what I had actually experienced, was the temporary removal of the 'ordinary grace of God', the natural connection to the Heart of the Divine which each of us is born with, which sustains us & blesses us with all of our capacity for joy & happiness, true strength to overcome the worst of circumstances, our innate drive & determination to succeed, our capacity to enjoy things, to love others, & to love ourself. God made us in His image, and all of these characteristics indwell us only because of who we are - children of God, whose Spirit blesses us daily with both joyous & temperate peace in our hearts, even though we are totally unaware of its source until something happens to enlighten us..

The 'ordinary grace of God' is your connection to the Divine. If you ever feel yourself flagging, if you are struggling to overcome, if you aren't sure of your path, then perhaps it is time to explore your innate connection to God, to ask for His guidance, or to ask for a specific sign of His presence with you, to show you His heart for you, an idea of the destiny He has prepared for you. There are many destinies, and only the timing of our choice to turn to Him denotes what ours will be, because the circumstances are changing every moment, a swirling dance of particles, fields, emotions, opportunities, hearts & minds - at any one time our potential in many circumstances is equally swirling, ready to latch onto one particular thread of destiny, as we are directed by God, by the confluence & coordination of events, times, places & people in our lives.

Reach out & ask for your place to be revealed, ask for God to reach into your heart & intensify the fire of Spirit which is able to dwell there - both yours & His. And if you're ready for a real adventure, ask Jesus to direct you in this life - you will not regret the decision. Take hold of the ordinary grace of God today, and ask for more - make it extraordinary for tomorrow.

I'm happy to answer any questions at all about any aspect of the experiences which I have described in this thread. Ask away!


FITO.

When given a second chance to live, I think that is when people begin to understand that a spiritual world exist in their religious upbringings. And it doesn't matter which religion one enters at anytime of their life.

a reply to: musicismagic

"Man looks at the exterior, but God looks at the heart"

1 Samuel, 16 v 7

The way I see it, there is a most ideal religious path, but any religious path where the person is intending to live the best possible, most morally pure life that they can lead - well, I think God sees that as being sufficient. Doesn't mean I don't think there's a most ideal way, but certainly I would never suggest that for example, a devout Taoist monk will not see the same Heaven I saw in that dream, if he is doing the very best he can under the circumstances. For example, what if he never hears the gospel because he is geographically remote from anywhere that the missionaries have visited? Does that mean he is condemned? Of course not. God is far more gracious & forgiving than we could ever imagine.

Blessings.

I am not sure how I would comment to this topic. I'll leave it at that, nice read.
S&F

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: musicismagic

"Man looks at the exterior, but God looks at the heart"

1 Samuel, 16 v 7

The way I see it, there is a most ideal religious path, but any religious path where the person is intending to live the best possible, most morally pure life that they can lead - well, I think God sees that as being sufficient. Doesn't mean I don't think there's a most ideal way, but certainly I would never suggest that for example, a devout Taoist monk will not see the same Heaven I saw in that dream, if he is doing the very best he can under the circumstances. For example, what if he never hears the gospel because he is geographically remote from anywhere that the missionaries have visited? Does that mean he is condemned? Of course not. God is far more gracious & forgiving than we could ever imagine.

Blessings.

In the Christian belief I believe they call it " born again Christian ". For me, I was given a second chance to live after waking up on the operating table. And I mentioned the spiritual world. To believe it really exist, one must enter it by the grace of God, I feel but to lead what we call a " religious way of life " , really may live under God''s wisdom under an umbrella of truth.

There are different dispensations.

We are now living in the age of Grace. I believe that to be the very best.

One thing that Yeshua said has always stuck with me. He said " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

a reply to: visitedbythem

One thing that Yeshua said has always stuck with me. He said " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

John 14.14 states "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.". The literal understanding of that statement is certainty provable whereas John 14.6 is not. So be very mindful of using the literal to intimidate the spirituality of people belonging to other faiths. I believe Jesus represents himself as the son of man that being our soul made in the image of God. So in effect he was stating that no one goes to that Father except through their soul. Which is identical to Hindu belief that no man can awaken to Brahman without first awakening their atman (soul)".

a reply to: glend

John 10:30-33
King James Version
30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

hi... this ordinary grace of god is something that im only now beginning to recieve. in some ways, my story is opposite to yours, but i know exactly of the terrible depths of which you speak. Brother(brother?) , i am glad that you recieved His discipline and that your time of darkness lasted 8 months only.

this place of which you speak, of being unconnected from any source of joy, passion, or otherwise healthy exuberance for life... has been my place of residence for the greater part of the last ten years. i... could not exist as a 1, so by necessity i had to operate a level of two or three- i was only motivated to respond to physiological urges. things like idling time and enthralling the mind with visions of faroff times and worlds via games or movies- yes, its physiological, as the route of escapee that i subconsciously chose time after time as a sort of defensive measure to prevent the state of shock that would come to awakening to a true realization of such a place, as... as you say, it is not brought on by demonic states... but it is a place that fosters these aggressors. things like acquiring food and shelter. also things like seeking to establish deep emotional bonds with others, typically those of the opposite sex. but... i was unable to move through the normal channels that people take to acquire them- things like pursuing meaning, mojo, or money, literally held no worth to me- i became homeless shortly after aging out of a group home, and managed to survive off of welfare and dumpster food for years- i am someone that literally wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the welfare that my infamous country of the u.s has provided me.

during this time... perhaps 5 or 6 years in...(it started one day in my junior year of highschool i just suddenly lost any capacity for things beyond that which i was guided to do and literally felt blanketed by despair and would just spend time in my room crying) i started writing. it was a desperate measure attempt, as i could feel the remnants of my sanity slipping further every day, under the combined assault of my own mind and various energetic opportunists. writing soon became my lifeline, for in writing, it was like i was able to peer within what in would describe as literally being a blanket of darkness thrown over your being, which makes the ordinary connection with god(love that you coined this term by the way. for years, the simple peace and appreciation you describe has been my only real goal, with all other goals being beyond it. ive spent so many nights crying, begging god to change my heart. so many days spent affirming and confirming, but always missing the crucial step of conforming... the only time i felt better was when i felt loved. i also have experience people recieve the spirit telling them that i am not lost. it is an amazing thing and something which, if im completely honest, continues to fly over my head to this very day.

lately, im really starting to feel settled. i guess i always was too deep in my own perception, and it caused a deep inability to interact outside of the scene of my preoccupation. if i was able to hold an idea of myself long, it would fade as soon as attention shifted. lately however i am learning how to hold an awareness of myself and my environement at the same time.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Brother (yes, brother) - I really feel for you. I'm so desperately sorry that you've been in that place for so long. Straight off the bat I will tell you that I'll pray for you. I know that God does not abandon His children. I was sure that He had given up on me - so sure, yet again & again I was reassured by my good friend that it simply wasn't the case, and eventually, I knew it to be true, He hadn't given up on me, He held me still. One of the things my good friend once said to me was that "...Because you desire to have the key to life, so to speak, because you want to live, you want to be within God's plan & God's care, that alone indicates that you are not lost. He does not go back on His promises, and He does not revoke His gifts." (paraphrased)

I want to share with you a response I wrote just a moment ago in another thread, which I believe is relevant here, because of the concordant 'brothers' theme which you will note from our own little interaction & from the content of the quote. Things like that some people will say are meaningless, but I'm confident that little indications of such nature, so-called 'coincidences', can quite literally be pivot points around which God intends to turn a message of some sort. So here it is:

a reply to: visitedbythem

Psalm 17:15
New King James Version
15 As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness;
I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness.

Thanks for sharing that scripture - it spoke very clearly to me regarding a series of dreams, visions & perceptions which I've experienced over the course of the past 20 years. The truth is that we are being made into His likeness, and at times, when I close my eyes to pray, I get the feeling of a great anointing which identifies me as one with Him, a humbling & peaceable experience indeed, a sure knowledge of His presence & His intention that I be remade in His likeness, mapping His own great nature onto my own lesser self, so that "[He is] not ashamed to call us brothers".

"Behold, how good & how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity"

Psalm 133 v 1

As you can see, it is a rather on-topic commentary from the two of us ('visitedbythem' & myself), and I'm confident it has a bearing on your situation. Your experience has given you a true sense of humility, which itself will cause you to be esteemed by God, per the following:

"He guides the humble in what is right & teaches them His way"
Psalm 25 v 9

"Humble yourself before the Lord & He will exalt you"
James 4 v 10

Don't give up believing that He has a plan for your future, hold onto these simple truths & try to live each day in simplicity, of course there is nothing wrong in escapism at times if you are faced with a reality which is upsetting, I do it myself as I experience severe chronic pain on a continuing daily basis, with flare-ups of severe neuropathic, arthralgic & fibromyalgic pain in various parts of my spine & limbs each & every day. It's awful at times, and I do need to use movies or reading to distract myself as much as possible, as well as the stacks of medications they throw at me.. But my experience through the depression caused me to realise that God hasn't given up on me, and He definitely does still have a plan for my life. I've recently seen some really clear glimpses of where His plans may be taking me, and I'm genuinely excited for the future, even though society has pretty much written me off as a welfare recipient who's basically a medical wreck. Here's a scripture which you may well have heard before, but I want you to hold onto it, especially when it seems like things aren't going the right direction. Remember that you will face opposition as a condition of living in this fallen world, so try not to take it to heart when things go a bit awry. Anyway, here it is:

"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you."

Jeremiah 29 v 11-12

The second part is just as crucial as the first. It's not only that you wait until after the plans have been realised that you call upon God - you begin to call because you know that God has plans for you.. God says that you are to "come & pray to me", which denotes a specific act of going forth in prayer. To rise with the dawn & kneel before God is one of the most powerful interventions you can have in your own life. Because you take action to put God first, even when the sleep in your eyes is resisting, even when you haven't yet seen the evidence of what God is doing. Place your trust in Him completely - He will not let you down. And don't forget that it takes time, typically, to see the benefits of the outworking of your faith in action. You may not see it right away, but if you continue to trust, and to walk with humility before God, He will lead you into the bright open plains of opportunity. I know He's doing it for me (though I'm not there yet), and I know He will do it for you.

Hopefully this has sounded more like brotherly counsel than preachy irritation, though having brothers of my own I know there's a bit of overlap between the two!

God bless you brother, stay safe, and feel free to pm me any time, I will check in with my message inbox now & again & we can keep in touch if you like.

Cheers,


FITO.

a reply to: visitedbythem

" I and my Father are one."

Jesus identifed his persona with his soul, not his body. That soul is made in the image of the Father, meaning it is one,

In John 14.10 Jesus stated "The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.".

What is "living in me" is the soul that in made in the image of God. What is "doing his work" is the light that empowers the minds lower conciousness with the greater conciousness of God.

a reply to: glend

The San Hedron disagreed with you. They believed otherwise. His abilities, his works, his bringing the dead to life shed light on who he is.

Mohamad is dead. So are all other spiritual leaders who once walked the Earth. You can dig up their bones

a reply to: glend


yes, exactly this. this is why i always hesitatingly identify as christian. this is a borderline heretical view, to some, and an uncomfortable one for most. its at the heart of gnosis, but jesus was literally showing us the way to the Father through the Spirit. He wants nothing more than for us to be as he is, gods in our own heart by walking fully with God just as He would do, in our shoes- just as he, in fact, does do, through your shoes. "ye are Gods" he told us. Jesus was a man who was so full with the spirit of life, that he was literally an open book. when he performed miracles- not just the big ones- he would actually literally reveal that process and enable its access. Thats why and how peter was able to walk on the water

a reply to: visitedbythem

Yet even people that believed in Jesus, achieving spirtulism with their soul, like that of the great Marguerite Porete was burnt at the stake by Christian authorities. So attrocities will always occur when dogma is more important than spiritulism itself.

What is made of dust always returns to dust.

a reply to: glend
Pagans are not Christians

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Yes I can certainly understand your hesitancy to identify as christian. But feel that religion is moreso a conduit that forces introspection. With majority seeing in the words a reflection of their own egotistical desires. Rather then the truth that appears obvious to our eyes.

a reply to: visitedbythem

"Pagans are not Christians"

The religious seek God in words.
The spiritualist seek God in their soul.
I believe Jesus was a spiritualist.

a reply to: glend
If you want to know exactly what Jesus is, you will find the answers in the Bible. He is the High priest. The prophets of old news about Jesus long long before he arrived in the flesh. King David was amazed to hear such things from God.
The Essenes knew about Jesus before he arrived. They knew where he would be born, and when he would die. And a whole lot more.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, and tented among us.

Colossians 1:16-20
King James Version
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

I have a conscious contact with my higher power (who I call and recognize as God) on a daily basis through prayer and meditation.

I was raised in a orthodox "Religious" home. I've come to believe that I didn't need nor rely on a "Middle man" to have and maintain this blessing of spiritual communion. Since this realization *For me* the veil has been lifted.

Your experiences may vary, which is all well and good.

Peace