Being in the ordinary grace of God - a treatise on the normality of our relationship with God

a reply to: SLAYER69

I often reflect on the fact that if we are all intellectually honest with ourselves & others, that honesty is sufficient to get us all on the same page, serving the need for goodness in the world & looking after those who cannot look after themselves.

"Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you."

James 1 v 27

a reply to: visitedbythem

The attributes you see in Jesus are exactly the same attributes that exist in your soul. It is made in the image of God. It is the Alpha and Omega. But like Jesus you cannot point to your soul and call it God - "Thou shall not have any Gods before me".

We can visulize our soul as the root of a tree called God. That root being a witness (conscious eye) that God has gracefully given to all life forms to experience reality. Without that concious eye we are nothing but dust. Our bodies would collapse into a vegetative state. But rather than praise the tree, you praise the root of the tree.

You have to recognize when Jesus was talking from the root of the tree in a state of super conciousness (samadhi) that the "I AM" he was refering was not his mortal body (Jesus) but that of the root (the son) of the tree (the Father) that exists in all life forms. Whereas, when Jesus spoke from his mortal body, he certainly differentiated between himself and God:

Mark 10:18 : "Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God".

To walk the desert to overcome evil (all desires of the body) is certainly no easy task. Jesus was certainly magnificent in that regard. But each of us will eventually have to walk the same path. To conquer evil we have to believe in the son. That son exists in the temple within you.

God Bless.

a reply to: glend

Mark 10:18 : "Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God".

I think Christ's statement here, went over your head. It has a different meaning.

If you have a Bible, get into it daily. I became a Christian 56 years ago, but my understanding took many years to clarify. I usually read several pages every night before bed. And quite often watch multiple sermons a day. I check each sermon for accuracy against the Word of God.

Ill take it further then that. It was 1983 when God first spoke to me in a miraculous way, and that incident was immediately confirmed by others. I had been told in 1965 that God planned on speaking to me in the years to come. My mother had come to me as a child and told me God spoke to her in the 60s, and I was to given choices just as Solomon was in 1st Kings 3. I selected the same as he did. Wisdom. He spoke to her again later and told her I was to memorize Jerimiah 33:3, because that would be my instructions from Him for the future, and describe our relationship. It had conditions, that I was to walk with Him. My life was to be dedicated to Him.

What I am saying, is, I know him personally, very well. He has performed miracles in my life multiple times, even when doctors said I would die within hours. Even specialists couldn't believe what had happened or how my body had been repaired. Nurses gathered around me in ICU to witness a miracle in progress.

I know God personally. I know who He is. He is the same God that Saul (Paul) met on the road near Damascus. There is a God, and I am not him. I was made in his Image, but am at the present time, to reflect His light, as the Moon reflects light from the Sun. I will some day radiate directly, but even then, I will not be God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God. He has told me so.

a reply to: visitedbythem

I like you visitedbythem. I often read your comments and your absolute faith always brings a smile to my face. But when you promote scripture that you believe questions the spirituality of other faiths. You are opening the door for your own beliefs to be questioned.

Your quote....

One thing that Yeshua said has always stuck with me. He said " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

When we mold scripture to fit our belief system rather than molding our belief system to fit scripture, we are fooling no-one but ourselves. To fully comprehend scripture we have to concentrate on scripture that doesn't jell with our beliefs.

One such scripture that everybody ignores is "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.". Yet in other scripture is states "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples".

You need comprehend how both can be true. If you cannot comprehend how both can be true then your reading of all scripture will be tainted by a tainted belief system.

a reply to: glend

None of the words we have discussed are in the scrolls. Original texts are in Hebrew, and Greek. When I need to verify the meaning and translation of a word, I have a giant Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance. I also have Topicals to assist investigation. E-Sword is also a tool I use for going word by word to insure correct translation. I also like to see if that word or phrase was used in the oldest scrolls, or added later.

You dont understand what he meant? ( "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.")

A study Bible will assist with understanding.

He also suggested that the Disciples eat his flesh and drink His blood... Do you understand what he meant?
Do you understand the reason the Jewish leaders gave for having him crucified?

There are clues in several locations in the old Testament as to who he is as well. David was amazed.

a reply to: visitedbythem

Do not concern yourself with my ramblings visitedbythem. I am sure the soul within you will guide your path,

God Bless.

a reply to: glend

When we mold scripture to fit our belief system rather than molding our belief system to fit scripture, we are fooling no-one but ourselves. To fully comprehend scripture we have to concentrate on scripture that doesn't jell with our beliefs.

Honestly, glend, you don't realize how often you do just that.

One such scripture that everybody ignores is "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.". Yet in other scripture is states "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples".

You need comprehend how both can be true. If you cannot comprehend how both can be true then your reading of all scripture will be tainted by a tainted belief system.

The verses you listed above prove the FIRST AND GREATEST COMMANDMENT, which Jesus said was to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, and mind. To do that, you must put everyone else second, including family and yourself. God must come first in our lives, but you have to know who he is to do that.

Both Yahweh and Jesus said they were the ALPHA AND OMEGA, the FIRST AND THE LAST. No, our own souls do NOT make up the Alpha and Omega. It is NOT an attribute, it is a being. Together, the Father and Son make up the First and Last, just like the Bible tells us over and over again. To claim that Jesus is anything else to fit your own narrative is lying to yourself, as it pertains to scripture.

The book of Revelation is called just that because it's the revelation of JESUS CHRIST and his role in the Godhead.

a reply to: Deetermined

Honestly, glend, you don't realize how often you do just that.

I certainly do Deetermined. All the things I once thought were true have fallen by the wayside. I hope soon, there will be only one truth left, that being the absolute truth, that being God.

"Both Yahweh and Jesus said they were the ALPHA AND OMEGA, the FIRST AND THE LAST. No, our own souls do NOT make up the Alpha and Omega."

Are the atoms that made up Jesus body the ALPHA AND OMEGA. Was it the memory stored in Jesus neurons the ALPHA AND OMEGA. Dust always return to dust. What remains is the spiritual made in the image of God. The ALPHA AND OMEGA is the image of God. Adam was made in that image. So was Jesus inner self. So is your inner self.

When we finally surrender our outer self for our inner self we will then be able to love everyone and everything as a expression of God. This is what Jesus meant when he said you must love everyone as I do. The capacity of that love can only come from God.

If christians have the capacity to love everyone as Jesus did then I am wrong.

a reply to: glend

I certainly do Deetermined. All the things I once thought were true have fallen by the wayside. I hope soon, there will be only one truth left, that being the absolute truth, that being God.

What has changed and what is your current definition of God?

"Both Yahweh and Jesus said they were the ALPHA AND OMEGA, the FIRST AND THE LAST. No, our own souls do NOT make up the Alpha and Omega."

Are the atoms that made up Jesus body the ALPHA AND OMEGA. Was it the memory stored in Jesus neurons the ALPHA AND OMEGA. Dust always return to dust. What remains is the spiritual made in the image of God. The ALPHA AND OMEGA is the image of God. Adam was made in that image. So was Jesus inner self. So is your inner self.

The Alpha & Omega IS God, it is not the image of God. We are the image of God. An image is a likeness, it is not person or being. A photograph of you is an image, but it does not reflect who you are.

When we finally surrender our outer self for our inner self we will then be able to love everyone and everything as a expression of God. This is what Jesus meant when he said you must love everyone as I do. The capacity of that love can only come from God.

You lose me when you keep using words like "inner self" and "outer self"; all they tell me is that you are focusing on self. If you want to say that your inner self contains the spirit of God/Jesus because you believe that only He can save us through the redemption of Jesus Christ's blood in order to reconcile us back to himself, then that would be scriptural. Any other interpretation would not be scriptural.

As I have always stated, using scripture to justify any other faith other than the requirements of the faith as spoken about in the scripture, just isn't right. Believe what you want, but don't try to turn the scriptures into a means of justifying every god, religion, and self based faith.

a reply to: Deetermined

Man was not created FROM his image. Man was created IN his image. "God created man in his own image, in the image of God". The 1st "in his own image" is the inner (aka soul if you like). Whilst the 2nd "in the image of God" is the outer, meaning creation. Aplha and Omega has similar significance, that God includes all that can be.

He can save us through the redemption of Jesus Christ's blood in order to reconcile us back to himself, then that would be scriptural.

Redemptionism is a false christian theology pushed by Michael Williams in the 1990's. If humanity was redeemed by a God that rewarded human sacrifice that would falsify scripture ... Matthew 7:14. “Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and few there be who find it.”. It is not given. It is up to you to FIND IT.

a reply to: glend

It is not a false Christian theology. All you have to do is know how to read. Here's what Jesus himself said in the Bible...

John 10:1-15

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
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a reply to: glend

I'm not sure why you don't understand what you read, but the link you provided for the definition of the Alpha and Omega says this...

In the New Testament Revelation to John, the term is used as the self-designation of God and of Christ.

Since we know it was also said in the Old Testament, let's look at the context of it there too...

Isaiah 41:4

4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he.

The first refers to the Father, the last refers to the Son. Together they make up one God, which is why he says, "I am he".

Only "he" can call the generations from the beginning. We do not call ourselves. The Alpha and Omega is not some term used to describe the collective of all that exists in the context of these verses. It is God doing only what he can do.

a reply to: glend

Once again, I'll ask you the same question as visitedbythem. What do you think Jesus meant when he said...

John 6:51-58

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Deetermined

Man was not created FROM his image. Man was created IN his image. "God created man in his own image, in the image of God". The 1st "in his own image" is the inner (aka soul if you like). Whilst the 2nd "in the image of God" is the outer, meaning creation. Aplha and Omega has similar significance, that God includes all that can be.

The 'image of God' is Gods manifestation...... it's what is what actually appears as life..... always just this that actually is.

Matthew 7:14. “Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and few there be who find it.”. It is not given. It is up to you to FIND IT.

It is not given!
Who would it be given to?
It cannot be found....

It's all there is... the alpha and the omega.....the beginning and end does not exclude..... it's inclusive.

a reply to: Deetermined

Once again, I'll ask you the same question as visitedbythem

What can it mean? It certainly does not entertain that we are cannibals that we should eat flesh. Nor does it suggest we are vampires that we should drink blood. That understanding, as well as human sacrifice, is satanic. All living organisms are made of dust and all return to dust. So you need search for spiritual understanding in a book about spiritualism. Jesus gave his life to his teachings. The son of man is our soul. Those the take nourishment from their soul are alive. Those that chase their own selfish desires are already dead.

That is our God given free choice. That choice would not be free if we couldn't strive for our spiritual being. God therefore has promised that we can do it ...

Deuteronomy 30:14 --- But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

"It is not given!
Who would it be given to?
It cannot be found...."

Imagine a room full of toys. Empty the room of all those toys. What can be found is revealed in the emptiness of desires.

a reply to: glend

What can it mean? It certainly does not entertain that we are cannibals that we should eat flesh. Nor does it suggest we are vampires that we should drink blood. That understanding, as well as human sacrifice, is satanic. All living organisms are made of dust and all return to dust. So you need search for spiritual understanding in a book about spiritualism. Jesus gave his life to his teachings. The son of man is our soul. Those the take nourishment from their soul are alive. Those that chase their own selfish desires are already dead.

Jesus told us what the spiritual meaning was in the book of Matthew during his last supper with his disciples...

Matthew 26:26-28

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Notice that the last verse says that his blood was shed for "many", not all. Why is that? There's more to the "faith" that Jesus spoke about in John, chapter 10 than believing that you should strive to live as he did. You need to dig into ALL of his words and teachings, not just the ones you choose to dig out for your own satisfaction.

a reply to: Deetermined
Whatever is within sight is Christ.

But most don't see or hear what actually is.....lost in time and space, what is present is denied.

Nothing is separate now.

It is the idea of time that leads one astray.

Stories arise now about things that don't have any existence.....

Those that have eyes, see. Those that have ears, hear.

a reply to: Deetermined

The disciples didn't eat the flesh of Jesus so the message is metaphoric. Those that follow the path of Jesus flesh will receive spiritual (blood) atonement. The inner (soul of you like) made in image of God is sinless. The outer (mind) being born as a blank slate doesnt contain anything, much less sin. So children are born sinless (they are the seed of the Lord - Malachi 2:15). Jesus said the kingdom of God belong to such as these (Luke 18:26).

So the concept of sin is misconstrued in today's understanding of Christianity. Living in sin is existing as the self that is projected by our mind. So it cannot be forgiven as it is our God given free choice to live in evil or not.

Many will not give up their outer self (mind) for the inner self (son of man). You cannot believe in the son of man if you believe that you are your own mind.