Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America installed its first openly transgender bishop in a service held in San Francisco’s Grace Cathedral on Saturday.

Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop

I am a Bible Man. Subsequently, I believe in the words that come from that book. I know many don't, and that's fine and fair. My belief is not meant to impose on another. If one is curious about the fundamentals of my belief, I'm typically happy to share, otherwise I'll rarely mention my faith save for it is appropriate for the given situation.

My thoughts on transgenderism is that it is, ultimately, a mental/spiritual and even (now) societal disorder. I am wholly, even to the point of angry, about the agenda that has grown around this "movement"...children et al. Having said that, I personally don't concern myself with it on an individual basis. I do not hate a transgender person for their choices in life. I would have no problem befriending a trans-person, sharing lunch and the thoughts that ruminate in our minds. I will not, however, offer an excuse for the lifestyle as I am faithfully disallowed (that is to say, the book that I have chosen through research and experience to follow as a guide toward human living openly disavows the behavior). In this vein, I cannot see how a church which says they ascribe to the same book can justify a bishop of this stated sin.

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Kinda getting weird but..meh, don't care. Doesn't bother me, or effect me.

Churchs and the Christian religion in general accepts all kinds of activities they call sins. Whats one more?

Seems to me that membership is more important than worrying about sin.

originally posted by: vonclod
Kinda getting weird but..meh, don't care. Doesn't bother me, or effect me.

Agree it's getting weird, don't blame you that it doesn't bother you, but effect you? If you live in the world it sure does.

originally posted by: dandandat2
Churchs and the Christian religion in general accepts all kinds of activities they call sins. Whats one more?

Seems to me that membership is more important than worrying about sin.

I agree. Churches are rampant with sin, and there is a very good reason I never refer to myself as a Christian. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Religion and The Word are far from synonymous.

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

babylonbee.com...


Watch out.

originally posted by: stormbringercompanion
babylonbee.com...


Watch out.

Ha! Read it. At first I didn't know what you were trying to say, but the piece was very well done. Appreciate you sharing...

Maybe the Bible and other religions teachings are just suggestions. Sure it might not be a good idea to have a Transgender bishop; but its not a show stopper. A lot more has to go wrong before God starts turning cities into salt.

originally posted by: dandandat2
Maybe the Bible and other religions teachings are just suggestions. Sure it might not be a good idea to have a Transgender bishop; but its not a show stopper. A lot more has to go wrong before God starts turning cities into salt.

You sure about that?

ALL ARE WELCOME.

What has done more harm to the Church than any other thing is the amount of hypocrisy they spew.

Not too mention the priest pedo stuff.

If you have sex before marriage, or commit adultery, then you as equally sinful and the homosexual you condemn or the transgender you revile.

It's not how you act on the outside that will sink most Christians. It's their black, hateful, judgmental hearts.

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: dandandat2
Maybe the Bible and other religions teachings are just suggestions. Sure it might not be a good idea to have a Transgender bishop; but its not a show stopper. A lot more has to go wrong before God starts turning cities into salt.

You sure about that?

Yes, Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop and they didn't turn to salt.

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: dandandat2
Maybe the Bible and other religions teachings are just suggestions. Sure it might not be a good idea to have a Transgender bishop; but its not a show stopper. A lot more has to go wrong before God starts turning cities into salt.

You sure about that?

Yes, Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop and they didn't turn to salt.

Can you quote in the Bible where it says that? I must have missed it.

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: vonclod
Kinda getting weird but..meh, don't care. Doesn't bother me, or effect me.

Agree it's getting weird, don't blame you that it doesn't bother you, but effect you? If you live in the world it sure does.

Well, how would it effect me..for the sake of argument

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: dandandat2
Maybe the Bible and other religions teachings are just suggestions. Sure it might not be a good idea to have a Transgender bishop; but its not a show stopper. A lot more has to go wrong before God starts turning cities into salt.

You sure about that?

Yes, Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop and they didn't turn to salt.

Can you quote in the Bible where it says that? I must have missed it.

I just quoted life. Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop and they didn't turn to salt. That happened; it was you who brought it to our attention.

If God doesn't like this behavior he has a big problem; the longer he lets people violate his laws with out ramifications the more people will push the envelope.

Unless of course what I said is more or less true and God does mind much that people are violating his laws so flagrantly.

One of the nicest guys I know is an openly gay deacon. :shrugs:

It's not your place to judge. If the believe in the teachings, and they're good at conveying the message, why does it matter?

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: vonclod
Kinda getting weird but..meh, don't care. Doesn't bother me, or effect me.

Agree it's getting weird, don't blame you that it doesn't bother you, but effect you? If you live in the world it sure does.

Well, how would it effect me..for the sake of argument

Because, we're effected by things around us, both as individuals and in our society. As I wrote in my opinion, I have very little personal qualms against a person who lives a trans lifestyle individually. I don't agree with it in a spiritual sense, but I don't allow it to bother me, certainly. However, as an agenda I feel differently, and I don't see how one could refute that there exists a clear and present agenda as it relates to this whole thing. This was literally a non-topic up until a few years ago, and now you have kids coming home from kindergarten saying they are the opposite sex (and parents supporting this while the medical community plies forth with medical intervention). These things effect us all.

The ELCA has been the most Liberal/LEFTIST organization in the church world for several decades now, to the best of my knowledge. I was raised a Lutheran and I was a member of MULTIPLE Lutheran churches in different states over the years that left the ELCA, at one time they were the largest (I believe) Lutheran synods, but I think they've lost at least half of their churches in the past few decades.

They actually had a clause in their contract with the individual churches, that if you left the ELCA without having joined another synod, THEY get to keep all of your property!! So, the churches I was a member of (again, at different times) had to go find another synod to join before telling the ELCA to go piss up a rope. Anyway, I figure the Lord will get all of this stuff squared away at the right time, and frankly I'd rather not be a member of such a group of idiots as the ELCA.

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: dandandat2
Maybe the Bible and other religions teachings are just suggestions. Sure it might not be a good idea to have a Transgender bishop; but its not a show stopper. A lot more has to go wrong before God starts turning cities into salt.

You sure about that?

Yes, Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop and they didn't turn to salt.

Can you quote in the Bible where it says that? I must have missed it.

I just quoted life. Evangelical Lutheran church installs 1st transgender bishop and they didn't turn to salt. That happened; it was you who brought it to our attention.

If God doesn't like this behavior he has a big problem; the longer he lets people violate his laws with out ramifications the more people will push the envelope.

Unless of course what I said is more or less true and God does mind much that people are violating his laws so flagrantly.

Your logic is pretty far off here. Firstly, I brought it to the attention of ATS simply by posting in the News forum a story that I read off of my MSN start-up page (I hardly think I was responsible for bringing it to attention). Also, you really should remove yourself from the mind and place of God. You seem to represent His plan in your words. This is silly. I'll just address quickly some of your points. One is the salt thing. The only person who turned to salt was Lot's wife when she turned back toward Sodom (which God destroyed with fire). Secondly, as to God's "problem" as you put it, have you heard of humans behavior in Sodom and Gomorrah before He destroyed those places? What about in the days of Noah before he sent the flood. Humanity was awful in their behaviors, yet God allowed it persist until His chosen time, not yours. You are not God, and so you should refrain from representing yourself as if you are.

originally posted by: LordAhriman
One of the nicest guys I know is an openly gay deacon. :shrugs:

It's not your place to judge. If the believe in the teachings, and they're good at conveying the message, why does it matter?

Please re-read my OP and tell me where I'm judging, and how your having a gay friend who is a deacon in any way refutes anything that I said.

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: TheMirrorSelf

originally posted by: vonclod
Kinda getting weird but..meh, don't care. Doesn't bother me, or effect me.

Agree it's getting weird, don't blame you that it doesn't bother you, but effect you? If you live in the world it sure does.

Well, how would it effect me..for the sake of argument

Because, we're effected by things around us, both as individuals and in our society. As I wrote in my opinion, I have very little personal qualms against a person who lives a trans lifestyle individually. I don't agree with it in a spiritual sense, but I don't allow it to bother me, certainly. However, as an agenda I feel differently, and I don't see how one could refute that there exists a clear and present agenda as it relates to this whole thing. This was literally a non-topic up until a few years ago, and now you have kids coming home from kindergarten saying they are the opposite sex (and parents supporting this while the medical community plies forth with medical intervention). These things effect us all.

But you don't have to participate, for me, thats about it. I do question where we're heading, and I do understand the concern about what may, or may not being going on in schools. But it still does not effect me personally, by that, there is nothing I can, or can't do, because of this..trend?