Conversation about the Texas Abortion Ban

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: network dude

If they were, their "activism" wouldn't stop at birth. They'd be promoting programs that make giving birth less expensive, and social programs like comprehensive sex education in the high schools, access to free or cheap contraception, free or affordable child care, free or cheap nutrition and health care access for children, instead of fighting against those things.

when was that up for vote? You are aware that the left has a majority currently and if that stuff is real, I can't see it being an issue, unless it's filled with Pork. or are you not aware of how that game works?

I don't understand how they''re using or citing the presence of a heartbeat as a proof the embyro will have a succesful development and birth. It's a superstition and feels proclomation designed to trigger irrational emotional response rather than a science and ethics based approach.

I've never come across it being used as a measure for viability. It's a key developmental stage but it's incredibly early - three months is the usual rule of thumb that a pregnancy is unlikely to result in miscariage but 22 - 24 weeks is the scientific measure of viability.

After 24 weeks the central nervous system has developed enough that there's a tiny chance the foetus would have the ability to feel pain or be self aware/have a form of human concious.
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It's very telling that the new law offers absolutely no provisions for when the child is born and there is no mention of quality of life, welfare, healthcare, adoption services, orphanages or any form of provision whatsoever to help or protect the child once they're born.

It clearly has nothing to do with sanctity of life and everything to do with enforcing superstitious beliefs on others.

a reply to: network dude

when was that up for vote? You are aware that the left has a majority currently and if that stuff is real, I can't see it being an issue, unless it's filled with Pork. or are you not aware of how that game works?

We're talking about Texas. When was the last time the left had a majority in Texas.

I know two woman, one was raped by an illegal immigrant Mexican and the 2nd raped by home invader. Both had their children, non regret it, both are NOT religious, both are pro life because they understand its not the child faults. Were they scared by it? Yes. They choose life.

Rape is used as the main reason to justify abortion when the West tends to use it as contraceptive. It should be used in rare cases, optional rape case, mothers life at stake, not a wild night at the club. Some religions forbid all abortions even in rape situation and these two woman do not represent all woman. I'm presenting it as a different view point.

As someone else said, 6 weeks is more than enough time to get an abortion due to rape and incest victims.

a reply to: RetsuUnohana

They choose life.

Jolly for them. Nice they had a choice. It makes their decision so much more altruistic.

Rape is used as the main reason to justify abortion

No it isn't. They use it as the main reason why the government shouldn't ban abortion. "My Body. My Choice" is the main justification for abortion in the West.

As someone else said, 6 weeks is more than enough time to get an abortion due to rape and incest victims.

6 weeks from when, when the rape/incest happened or upon finding out they're pregnant?

At any rate, take that time and subtract at least 2 weeks, because the "6 weeks" begins on the first day of the woman's last period, not at conception. Ovulation typically happens around day 14 of a 28-day menstrual cycle.

Then consider that experts say the magic number for when you can take a pregnancy test is between 10 and 14 days after conception.

So, we're really talking about 2 weeks, more or less, and that's for the most fastidious and conscientious of women.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: RetsuUnohana

They choose life.

Jolly for them. Nice they had a choice. It makes their decision so much more altruistic.

And you missed the point, its not about being altruistic. I even pointed out that they do not represent all woman. Everyone loves to throw out rape, but ignore the ones that didn't abort. Like their stories don't matter.

As someone else point out, you have 6 week. If they lived in TX. They would have 6 weeks to make the call. However, you make it seem like abortion is fully outlawed. They would have had the same choice as plain Jane in TX

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: scrounger
Actually, like every other abortion thread, it has devolved into the same ole same ole back and forth every thread touching the issue ends up being.

so what your saying is the same old LOGICAL AND FACTUAL issues come up and you still cant or wont accept them.. got it


Go back and read the op and see how far off topic we are. Care to attempt an answer to the question? Why do you think women would want to just say no to sex and encourage others to in response to creeps like you?

if someone doesnt want to have sex then ok thats called FREEDOM OF CHOICE.
not seeing what "question" your trying to make?
are you trying to say that a "protest of not having sex unless the abortion law is ended" is good or bad?
on that really dont care since
a. it isnt gonna do a damn thing but hey have at it.
b. abortion is NOT ILLEGAL.. you can still get one with some (you clearly disagree) restrictions AND EXCEPTIONS.
or go to another state..
hey if those "protesting" feel so strong about it then organize a "abortion caravan" and you on your own dime take them to get it..

now as for the "creeps comment" ..
clearly you cant defend your points so you fall back to "name calling"
a childish and clearly destroys your argument.

scrounger

a reply to: RetsuUnohana

Like their stories don't matter.

In the scheme of things, they don't.

They would have 6 weeks to make the call.

As I posted above, a point that you apparently missed, they don't have 6 weeks to "make the call". At best, they have 2 weeks. 2 weeks to get an appointment, undergo an exam, get an appointment and submit to "counselling" and then wait at least 24 hours before they can have the procedure.

Most people that advocate for "life" are against forcing the mother to rush a decision. So this law backfires in that respect.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: shooterbrody

Mayo science backs the texas bill.

Catholic run MAYO Clinic says what?

Yeah that religous stench is acceptable when its a cancer treatment or alzheimers breakthrough.
Pfft hypocrite

That corner you are painting yourself into is gettin smaller.

you have to realize people who think like Sookiechacha are all for "science" , freedom of speech, public good, and ideas like "my body my choice" until it counters their agenda..
then they are against it.

aka hypocrites

scrounger

I agree.
The texas legislature has simply outflanked them using their own outdated roe v wade guidelines.
Roe v Wade was a crap ruling.
It needs updated.

i dont think it should be updated but overturned.

abortion is NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL right but falls under STATES RIGHTS.
What people forget is overall the people in most states by MAJORITY wanted abortion to be illegal.
pro abortion ON DEMAND FOR ANY REASON (the real point of the pro abortion agenda, womens health they are not) could not win under the democratic process or change the constitution so went to the court who (sadly) legislated from the bench

so over time the states and anti abortion got wise and gave the pro abortion what they wanted...
exceptions for life of the mother (which always existed) , rape, incest, severe birth defect, and thanks to technology when the fetus would be able to live outside (maybe with assistance) the womb.

but that was not good enough since again their goal is abortion anytime (even just before birth) and for any reason.

people have had enough and since the previous laws GIVING THEM EXACTLY WHAT THEY CLAIMED IT NEEDED has not satisfied them went hard on it, but STILL GIVING THE EXCEPTIONS THEY WANTED.

the final lie they push is if the supreme court overturned roe v wade abortion WOULD NOT BECOME ILLEGAL..
the fight then goes back to the states .
then they must MAKE A CASE in each state then if not happy supreme court..

they know they wont win and it scares them

scrounger

a reply to: Sookiechacha

nice rant on how long it takes.
too bad doesnt fit facts.
one.. we have this thing called "pregnancy tests" available in about every store including dollar stores.
they are as accurate as what you get in a doctors office. along with it is (mostly) FREE at any county health dept.

so "finding out" is not an issue"

two.. then you make an appointment to get the abortion and how long it takes im NOT taking your word for it WITHOUT PROOF. but say it is two weeks.. show me IN THE WORDING OF THE LAW that the delay from appointment to procedure is not covered.
if it is then just get it changed and your ok with it right?


last.. "a rushed decision"
ok oh lord and master what is the EXACT TIME someone should have? one week, month, two months?
dont say "its up to the mother" because THE LAW does not work that way.
along with if one wants to keep it you can back out and not go to the appointment that you claim takes "two weeks".

excuses excuses excuses but no hard good argument or facts.

scrounger

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: scrounger
So when it come to my not so fictitious guy with the hurt back (not really so fictitious because the guy I am basing the story on is my husband) that could opt for a surgery that might enable him to keep doing the kind of work he is doing and earning the big bucks...
Whose body is it? The wife or baby momma who wants the higher paycheck so she can have nice things or his who is actually gonna have to go through the operation and have to trust that the dr ain't gonna have shaky hands and mistakenly slice his spinal cord?
My decision was it was his body, his choice!

wow ..
so now your equating a BACK SURGERY to KILLING A HUMAN.

when it comes to desperation i see just when you think someone cant go anymore into the absurd, irrelevant, and far from "one of these things is not like the other".. someone like you proves us wrong.

now since you said it IF you had a child and IF the man doesnt get the "surgery" , then his disability payments (and settlement) if married would still go to support the child.. if not married can be deducted by the courts..

now again if its YOUR BODY YOUR CHOICE.. then its YOUR CHOICE to pay for it be an abortion or child.

scrounger

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: shooterbrody

Why, you won't look at it anyway..

link

Yeah
That "reaffirmed " roe v wade
Did you even read it?

Perhaps the texas legislature is simply representing those who elected them?

you should not be surprised.
they almost never read the "links" they provide fully for content and facts.

they just find something (no matter how slim or irrelevant) that they think supports their case and you cant question.

when it fails to do so, factually falls apart , is an OPINON piece , or even more funnier, torpedo's their claim.
they resort to ignoring it, deflection, name calling and/or double down on using it.

he also doesnt acknowledge that the supreme court has been allowing REASONABLE and MEDICALLY PROVEN restrictions to abortion like laws banning the barbaric (by any standard you care to use) third trimester abortions.

along with thanks to technology and laws GIVING THEM what the pro abortion crowd claimed was missing saying more "anti abortion" (their term) laws meet constitutional muster.


scrounger

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: neo96

No it isn't. The Handmaids Tale is a propaganda piece that ignores a millenial of the 'religion of peace'.

I thought Islam was "the religion of peace? Christians wear the "Armor of God", and are [Christian] soldiers, marching onward, as to war!

Oh well, they both support the subjugation of women.

o how quaint , how hypocritical comment

now the "separation of church and state" or at very least ranting against religion now tries to use it in their argument.

btw EXACTLY HOW is abortion laws like islam or christianity.

before you answer remember protecting life and laws against murder are NOT JUST "religious" or come from religion.

scrounger

Who’ll be paying the bounties?

A state that doesn’t have money for it’s power grid but has money to pay snitches. How is that possible?

And, where are they gonna get the money to pay for all the new orphans? Serious question.

Don’t believe in abortions DON’T GET ONE. It really is that simple.

a reply to: CryHavoc

Whats to Talk About > ? Either you are for Protecting the Helpless Unborn Life or you Wish to Destroy that Life out of Pure Selfishness .CHOOSE And be Done with it Already so All of Us Here can See Who is Who .............

a reply to: scrounger

we have this thing called "pregnancy tests" available in about every store including dollar stores.

Right, but:

Sometimes a pregnancy test is able to find pregnancy hormones in your urine as early as 10 days after sex. But these results aren’t super reliable, and you may get a false positive or false negative test result.

Waiting at least a week after a missed period may give you the most accurate result.

LINK

In pregnancy speak, that's at 5 weeks, leaving about 1 week. Even at best, if a test is taken and shows a reliable positive result 10 days after sex, in pregnancy speak, that is still only leaves 2 weeks.

Here's why:

For a woman with a regular period, conception typically occurs about 11-21 days after the first day of the last period. Most women do not know the exact date of conception because it can be challenging to know exactly when ovulation occurs. Thus, their conception date is merely an estimate based on the first day of their last period.

LINK

I know science is hard, so let me talk you through this.

Let's say a woman's period starts on February 1st. She will normally ovulate around the 14th of February. If she conceives on the 14th, the earliest she can take a pregnancy test is February 24th, but the most reliable test will be taken after she misses her next period, around around March 2nd, when she is just 1 day late. That would give her around 2 weeks, in the best case scenario, even less if she waits until 1 week after her missed period as recommended, as the 6 week mark when her abortion would be illegal is March 15th.

So, she finds out she's pregnant, at the very earliest, by March 2nd, and has until March 15th before her abortion would be illegal in Texas.

hen you make an appointment to get the abortion

You don't make an appointment for an abortion. A doctor has to do that, and the doctor is going to do a test too, and not rely on a Dollar Store test. So, she needs to make an appointment to see an OB/GYN, and then the OB/GYN needs to make an appointment for the abortion. But first she'll need to undergo obligatory counselling and then a 24hr wait period, before can see the "abortion doctor". Even then, she'll have to undergo one more vaginal sonogram, to make sure that embryonic electrical pulse can't be detected by the sonogram machine, one more time.

"a rushed decision"

It's a pretty hefty decision.

a reply to: scrounger
Ya, I probably should apologize for the creeps comment. It is kind of hard to keep track of where the insults are coming from when they fly around.
Sometimes I get tired of seeing them fly and will send one out in return.. I misaimed, sorry.

Logical and factual?
That they are aborting babies after they are born?
No. They aren't, nor does anyone want to. Once born, regardless of how it is born, it is protected by the law .that requires it recieve the same standard of care as any other baby. That is what the born alive act does. The prolife crowd wanted that law, they got that law, and now they want to throw that law away. You see, any baby, regardless of how it is born, just like every other human in the country can decide when the life support machines and interventions stop at the end of their life, or their close family can if they can't express their desires. They want to remove that right from the parents of some babies. Thus, not a babies born alive will be treated at the same standard.
And, that is just one of facts and logic behind one of the fallacies that come up in these discussions.

Here is my logic and fact that I don't believe you can dispute honestly.

The way this law is written, with the only exception i I I believe being to prevent the imminent death of the mother is not adequate protection for the mother and that two week, give or take, window that you claim is plenty of time, doesn't do squat address that problem. Even if you throw the idea that medical emergencies are considered it isn't. And, if you are talking about a young victim of sexual abuse, those pregnancies are often not discovered till later because the girl is too afraid to say anything or heck, she might not understand what was done to her or what is happening to her body.

Since I am mainly concerned with how these laws have so totally disregarded the health and wellbeing of the mother,
No, I don't accept them. It is for me to decide if I want to kill myself trying to bring a child into the world, no one else's. You get to decide weather or not you will let the surgeon take a knife to your back if you hurt it. Not your spouses because you can earn a bigger check if the surgery turns out well. Not the govts because they don't want to pay you a disability check or provide food stamps for your family. (But don't be surprised if they try). It is our body, our choice in both cases.

I think I may have been the only one who made an effort to answer the ops question.
Which seems only right since I have been saying this for years. Regardless of what the prolife wanted, this country has become a hostile place for pregnant women. And yes, I think that if enough women, lots of women, married or single, would just opt to not have sex unless a child was desired, it would make a difference. Of course I think men should do the same thing.
No birth control is 100% effective. And, if there is no out if it turns out not being effective, well for a women it could mean enduring the pain of an ectopic pregnancy hoping the doctors will get off their arses and decide your fallopian tube has become compromised and needs to be removed befor it burst or enduring the pain of a miscarriage till either the fetus heart stops beating or the sepsis gets bad enough that they figured you will die soon if they wait any longer. Or worse, you could actually end up dead.. but, even if this doesn't happen, weather you are the mommy or the daddy that little baby is gonna tie you to together with a string that no divorce can cut!! So, maybe, just maybe, at least say no to the one night, gee I don't even know the name of that guy/girl stands..

a reply to: scrounger

No I am comparing back surgery to pregnancy in that hey, everything might turn out just great, but for some women, they might find themselves with irreperable and disabling damage to their body or death.. in both cases, shouldn't it be the one who is facing the risk that decides?

a reply to: knoxie
The uber driver that drove the pregnant women to the wic office next door to the planned parenthood clinic that the prolife group created false evidence claiming an abortion occurred that never happened. The pregnant women could have easily proven it never happened by showing up in court still pregnant, but she was in quarentine because well you know, making a person wear a mask while grocery shopping is such an infringement on their rights!!

Seriously, how are these bounty hunters gonna be able to prove that there was an illegal abortion? They can't get hold of patients records.