UK Parliament Holds Joe Biden in Contempt and the Details Are Disturbing

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Or Donald Trump's....

Or Barack Obama's....

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Or Donald Trump's....

Or Barack Obama's....

The post I responded to already said the past 3.

I added joe.

Already agreed with you.



ETA:

Ah, you prob mean the other post.

I still agree with you.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: SprocketUK
It's almost like those MP's are trying to deflect any of the blame they deserve, isn't it?

This mess was started by Bush and Blair and every single idiot in charge in between then and now did nothing to ensure the safety of Afghanistan when our troops were gone.

It's everybody's fault.

Well, let's get real.

This withdraw debacle blame lays 100% on those who are currently implementing that plan or lack of one is more like it.

I'd share the blame to be honest, 20 years is long enough to raise millions of kids to adulthood.
We could have insisted they go to school and learn why to treat women properly, why people such as the Taliban are wrong and evil, then we could have taught them all small unit tactics and had an army that could have kicked those idiots backl out when they came back.

20 years is nowhere even near enough time. sure you raise ONE batch of kids to "adulthood". but they are nowhere even close to being ready to lead their nation. at best they might be prepared for entry level positions and to start to learn how to do what is needed. and just who is teaching/supposed to teach them what they and the country need?

the fact is this is exactly why much of the middle east, Africa, and so many countries are the messes that they are. it is why the "banana republics", aka south america had so many problems for decades, even today after they were turned loose from their colonial powers. and the same is also true for countries that have had years of dictatorship and corrupt rule. such as with countries like Russia after the fall of communism, or the Philippines after the Marcos dictatorship. it takes literal generations to repair. and can only really begin to get over such things only after those who were just starting out as young adults at the time of change are pretty much retired. it is like telling an 8 year old that now they are an adult and let them free to do what they want without supervision. they are just not ready, nor capable of doing what they need to do.

far from "20 years is long enough to raise millions of kids to adulthood.", it is closer to once things are settled down, pacified and under control, you need to "raise the millions of currant, children just starting their education", to at least their retirement. and hopefully the NEXT generation will be trained, educated, and ready to take over completely. they being brought up, raised and educated, both in terms of society, and the jobs they need to do. with the first generation being raised, educated, and trained by the power (in this case in a large part by the US). and then passing power down gradually, as that first and second generation (or more), are ready. and only IF that controlling country has properly prepared the first generation and helped with the next ones, will it work. and even then said country will still likely need to still be involved as to ensure that it all stays on track. rather like grandparents and older generations helping and advising their children grandchildren and younger generations.

and we are not just talking about things like politicians, police and military. but also things like manufacturing, infrastructure and commerce.since even the best and best intended leadership needs that in order to have a stable society.

It’s about time all the soldiers with PTSD come on home, I’m not supporting what sleepy joe has done. There was no plan, no nothing, but it’s time to come home. No doubt about it. Should have never been there in the first place.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I do wonder if this will be a good reason to sour our special relationship with the US.

It's been coming for a while I think, we don't get a very good deal out of it anymore do we?



a reply to: DISRAELI

The United States can ask the same question. What do we get out of any of our defense treaties with one-fourth of the world's nations? Does our enormous defense budget and worldwide commitments increase our wealth in any way? Does it truly increase our security? Not that I'm aware of. The only invasion we have to fear is the one on our southern border, which we could solve tomorrow if we chose to. But the rest of the free world, enjoys the luxury of spending much, much less of their GDPs on defense, because the USA always pays more than its First World allies in lives and treasure to maintain a semblance of order in a dangerous, chaotic world. Without the United States taking the lead, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and Muslim terrorists could pretty much do as they please. Without the United States playing the role of world cop -- no matter how ineptly at times -- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and possibly Australia, New Zealand and Singapore, as well as the Philippines and all of Southeast Asia would have to either kowtow to China, or drastically increase their defense budgets. Some of them might have to acquire nukes. Europe would likewise have to increase defense spending to prevent former Warsaw Pact members and Soviet republics from succumbing to Russian "hybrid warfare" that has been so effective in Crimea, Ukraine, Georgia, Tajikistan and Transnistria. The EU, Japan, India and South Korea would have to greatly increase their role in keeping the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz secure. The USA doesn't even need Pesian Gulf oil, well, not before the Biden administration that is.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: SprocketUK
It's almost like those MP's are trying to deflect any of the blame they deserve, isn't it?

This mess was started by Bush and Blair and every single idiot in charge in between then and now did nothing to ensure the safety of Afghanistan when our troops were gone.

It's everybody's fault.

Well, let's get real.

This withdraw debacle blame lays 100% on those who are currently implementing that plan or lack of one is more like it.

I'd share the blame to be honest, 20 years is long enough to raise millions of kids to adulthood.
We could have insisted they go to school and learn why to treat women properly, why people such as the Taliban are wrong and evil, then we could have taught them all small unit tactics and had an army that could have kicked those idiots backl out when they came back.

right... some people seem to have forgotten the video of Taliban executing women in cold blood ....

originally posted by: macaronicaesar
It’s about time all the soldiers with PTSD come on home, I’m not supporting what sleepy joe has done. There was no plan, no nothing, but it’s time to come home. No doubt about it. Should have never been there in the first place.

So you think joe should have just evacuated in march & april as planned?

Me too.

We could be talking about something more important right now.

Instead of the horrible (and long term) ramifications of what joe just did.

a reply to: Freeborn

*holds up mirror*

originally posted by: sraven
it is described as an "epochal change".

it is the end of the old epoch
it is the beginning of a new epoch.
a new epoch without the US in a leadership position in the world.
it is the "fall of rome"

No, it is the fall of biden.




This country still has a good 20 years left....maybe.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: sraven
it is described as an "epochal change".

it is the end of the old epoch
it is the beginning of a new epoch.
a new epoch without the US in a leadership position in the world.
it is the "fall of rome"

No, it is the fall of biden.

This country still has a good 20 years left....maybe.

If I were rich, would buy msm air time to play exactly that.

Repeatedly.

With nothing else to distract.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: SprocketUK
It's almost like those MP's are trying to deflect any of the blame they deserve, isn't it?

This mess was started by Bush and Blair and every single idiot in charge in between then and now did nothing to ensure the safety of Afghanistan when our troops were gone.

It's everybody's fault.

Well, let's get real.

This withdraw debacle blame lays 100% on those who are currently implementing that plan or lack of one is more like it.

I'd share the blame to be honest, 20 years is long enough to raise millions of kids to adulthood.
We could have insisted they go to school and learn why to treat women properly, why people such as the Taliban are wrong and evil, then we could have taught them all small unit tactics and had an army that could have kicked those idiots backl out when they came back.

What you just described is taking away their religion and replacing it with some western ideology. That is not going to go over well in a majority muslim state. They fight to the death for their religion, even against other sects for not being muslim enough or being too muslim.

originally posted by: nonspecific
How did trump save bozzers life?



a reply to: carewemust

Field Marshal Sir Donald of Trump flew over and gave President Boris a kiss which woke him from his 100 year sleep.

The UK spokes-lady then waved her magic spokes-wand and everyone went to the ball and had a splendid time!



I'm not exactly sure whether this is exactly true, but it's ATS, so whatever.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: ElGoobero
I see articles in which Parliament 'condemns' Biden (and PM Johnson) but nothing about a formal 'contempt' vote.

www.reuters.com...

British lawmakers vented their anger on Wednesday at Prime Minister Boris Johnson and U.S. President Joe Biden over the collapse of Afghanistan into Taliban hands, calling it a failure of intelligence, leadership and moral duty.

I think you misunderstand "contempt". It's not a legal thing.

If I’m not mistaken Old Carpy, your in the U.K.? Here in the former Colonies, “contempt” IS a “legal thing”, Baby! Reporters can be held “in contempt of court” for refusing to divulge their sources; politicians (like former Attorney General of the U.S. Eric Holder) can be held “in contempt of Congress”. Not sure if you folks have a similar legal concept.

originally posted by: Scapegrace

originally posted by: nonspecific
I do wonder if this will be a good reason to sour our special relationship with the US.

It's been coming for a while I think, we don't get a very good deal out of it anymore do we?



a reply to: DISRAELI

The United States can ask the same question. What do we get out of any of our defense treaties with one-fourth of the world's nations? Does our enormous defense budget and worldwide commitments increase our wealth in any way? Does it truly increase our security? Not that I'm aware of. The only invasion we have to fear is the one on our southern border, which we could solve tomorrow if we chose to. But the rest of the free world, enjoys the luxury of spending much, much less of their GDPs on defense, because the USA always pays more than its First World allies in lives and treasure to maintain a semblance of order in a dangerous, chaotic world. Without the United States taking the lead, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and Muslim terrorists could pretty much do as they please. Without the United States playing the role of world cop -- no matter how ineptly at times -- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and possibly Australia, New Zealand and Singapore, as well as the Philippines and all of Southeast Asia would have to either kowtow to China, or drastically increase their defense budgets. Some of them might have to acquire nukes. Europe would likewise have to increase defense spending to prevent former Warsaw Pact members and Soviet republics from succumbing to Russian "hybrid warfare" that has been so effective in Crimea, Ukraine, Georgia, Tajikistan and Transnistria. The EU, Japan, India and South Korea would have to greatly increase their role in keeping the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz secure. The USA doesn't even need Pesian Gulf oil, well, not before the Biden administration that is.

Well said!

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: SprocketUK
It's almost like those MP's are trying to deflect any of the blame they deserve, isn't it?

This mess was started by Bush and Blair and every single idiot in charge in between then and now did nothing to ensure the safety of Afghanistan when our troops were gone.

It's everybody's fault.

Well, let's get real.

This withdraw debacle blame lays 100% on those who are currently implementing that plan or lack of one is more like it.

I'd share the blame to be honest, 20 years is long enough to raise millions of kids to adulthood.
We could have insisted they go to school and learn why to treat women properly, why people such as the Taliban are wrong and evil, then we could have taught them all small unit tactics and had an army that could have kicked those idiots backl out when they came back.

What you just described is taking away their religion and replacing it with some western ideology. That is not going to go over well in a majority muslim state. They fight to the death for their religion, even against other sects for not being muslim enough or being too muslim.

I get that, but this, now is the alternative to that.
We let them have their dumb religion and did nothing to get them ready for the challenges of the world and the taliban rolled right over them.

a reply to: Thoughtcrime

But the thread is about the UK Parliament and as such it can not hold Joe Biden - a foreign national who has not committed a crime in the UK - 'in contempt'.
But individual members of Parliament can express their personal contempt for Joe Biden.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the US and its legal system.

I'd suggest carpy knows what he is talking about - considerably more so than you or I - as he is a practising lawyer of English Law.

a reply to: SprocketUK

About 64% of the Afghan population is under the age of 25. That means most of them weren't alive or were young children when the Taliban ruled. They've been embedded with Western values now through education and direct contact with the West.
That said, you don't change the stripes on a zebra. Islam is a strong force that unites - just look at the Islamists in the UK and the USA.
IMO what needed to happen should have happened under Bush. One targeted nuc could have put Tora Bora back into the stone age for the next 1000 years, sending a message as to who's boss. Instead, Bush pulled out and went to Iraq to cause more chaos.
The most dangerous aspect of this whole debacle is that Pakistan is aligned with the Taliban - and Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Don't think that's small potatoes to the Taliban and the terrorist groups emerging once again in Afghanistan.
It's going to be interesting to see if China and Russia can even exert influence over an Afghanistan whose strength is now self evident.

a reply to: infolurker

Has there been an official statement on this yet? Something that can easily be spread around to the masses?

a reply to: carewemust
As you read through the thread, you will realise that nothing "official" has happened. There was a debate in the House of Commons, which was, technically, discussing the motion "That this house has considered the situation in Afghanistan" (a motion which was duly passed, for form's sake, at the end of the debate).

Any "contempt" was being expressed in individual speeches.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: carewemust
As you read through the thread, you will realise that nothing "official" has happened. There was a debate in the House of Commons, which was, technically, discussing the motion "That this house has considered the situation in Afghanistan" (a motion which was duly passed, for form's sake, at the end of the debate).

Any "contempt" was being expressed in individual speeches.

OH...Thank-you for the succinct update. (I rarely read through threads)