I can blow a massive holes in the "must wear masks" montra

a reply to: scrounger

Let that ego go for a second, player. It's not about you. Its about protecting others from your expiration. It's a courtesy to your neighbor. If you don't want to do it, then don't.

Basically, you be you. Do your thing. I've got nothing but love, even though I don't understand you at all. We can only control ourselves and our response to others.

a reply to: DaBoogieMan

I am fine thanks.
I haven't worn a mask anywhere in like i dunno....half a year? and i feel the same.
In fact I feel angrier because some people still are and the news still controls weak peoples sense of normality.

This # is giong away soon.
If they try this crap in the States a second time we are going to upset the ol' apple cart.
to put it mildly

I am ready to fight

And no that's not necessarily violent .

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: ScepticScot

What’s that brilliant sign going around?

If six feet apart was effective, why the masks?
If masks are effective, why social distancing?
If the above two were effective, why the lockdowns?
If the above three was effective, why the vaccines?
If the above four were effective, why the delta variant?

If you think that's a brilliant sign it might explain your confusion.

Social distancing doesn't stop the spread , it reduces it.

Wearing masks doesn't stop the spread, it reduces it.

If you do both you reduce it more. It's a fairly simple concept.

So, then masks aren’t effective at actual stopping the spread.

But some how reduce the spread they never did prevented?

Whatever.

But they are “effective” enough in “preventing” reaching some arbitrary number pulled out of some person’s butt. And then claiming biasedly “look, it never reached the imaginary number we made up.”

Sorry you find it difficult to understand.

Doesn't mean that masks don't work.

Doesn’t mean that cheap masks that don’t seal are effective either. As taught in the military, in industry, and in industry hygiene.

The Delta Variant Will Drive A Steep Rise In U.S. COVID Deaths, A New Model Shows

www.npr.org...

Wow. Despite masks being available? With no listings in the article what factor masks may make.

It’s like they project these crazy high inflated projections

Then when the real numbers are way low, it’s “masks didn't prevent the spread but they helped”….

Remember when…

APRIL 21, 2020 3:05PM
How One Model Simulated 2.2 Million U.S. Deaths from COVID-19

www.cato.org...

A month later that 2.2 million estimate was still being used (without revealing the source) by President Trump and Doctors Fauci and Birx to imply that up to two million lives had been saved by state lockdowns and business closings and/or by federal travel bans.

But…. Same source

The key premise of 81% of the population being infected should have raised more alarms than it did. Even the deadly "Spanish Flu" (H1N1) pandemic of 1918-19 infected no more than 28% of the U.S. population. The next H1N1 "Swine Flu" pandemic in 2009-10, infected 20-24% of Americans.

To push the percentage infected up from 20-28% to an unprecedented 81% for COVID-19 required assuming the number of cases and/or deaths keeps doubling every three or four days for months (deaths were predicted to peak July 20). And that means assuming the estimated reproduction number (R0) of 2.4 remains high, and people keep mingling with different groups, until nearly everyone gets infected. Long before 8 out of 10 people became infected, however, a larger and larger percentage of the population would have recovered from the disease and become immune, so a smaller and smaller share would still remain susceptible

Now this is important

From above… “ To push the percentage infected up from 20-28% to an unprecedented 81% for COVID-19”

Now let’s use New York as example…

Study estimates nearly 1 in 4 New Yorkers had COVID-19 early in pandemic

www.ny1.com...

So. Even with unprecedented mask mandates, lockdowns, business closures, personnel protection equipment and techniques, hand sanitizer, and the technology to shop and work from home. New York fell into the usual percentage of expected infections within error of analysis.

Cheap masks had no statistical impact on the spread of covid.

An artificial projection and unrealistic model was created for the covid narrative in the USA that gave a lot of wiggle room for claiming what “worked”.

The scientific method has five basic steps, plus one feedback step:

Make an observation.

Ask a question.

Form a hypothesis, or testable explanation.

Make a prediction based on the hypothesis.

Test the prediction.

Iterate: use the results to make new hypotheses or predictions.

Observation: Covid-19 is an aerosol virus that spreads via vapors from your mouth and nose. Any time you breathe, speak, sneeze, cough, etc..., you emit vapors at varying distances.

Question: will absolutely anything in front of your mouth and nose hinder the distance in which the vapors from your respiratory system project?

Hypothesis: duh.

Prediction: if I breathe on a mirror it will fog up. This is proof of vapors, the vessel in which covid spreads. If I use the absolute minimal protection, a square of cheap toilet paper held against my nose and mouth, the vapors won't make it to the mirror. Even from inches away.

Test: just tried it. No fog on the mirror.

Iterate: masks help.

a reply to: scrounger

But you'd have to remove your mask to be able to 'really' blow with any sort of force.

a reply to: LordAhriman

I just attempted to duplicate your experiment and failed. Same amount of condensation with or without a face cover.

But your experiment is not really relevant. The virus is not carried on water vapor (which is composed of individual water molecules, much smaller than the virus), it is carried by water droplets (mucus, if you want to be more accurate). These droplets are expelled when we cough, or even speak.

Masks limit these quite effectively. Perfect? Probably not. But a lot better than nothing.
www.nejm.org...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: LordAhriman

I just attempted to duplicate your experiment and failed. Same amount of condensation with or without a face cover.

But your experiment is not really relevant. The virus is not carried on water vapor (which is composed of individual water molecules, much smaller than the virus), it is carried by water droplets (mucus, if you want to be more accurate). These droplets are expelled when we cough, or even speak.

Masks limit these quite effectively. Perfect? Probably not. But a lot better than nothing.
www.nejm.org...

Read it again, buddy. We're on the same side. I didn't say "droplets" because vapors is a word they can all understand. It delves into science, and we can't have that here.

My post was pro-mask.

a reply to: scrounger

What if they are FDA or NIOSH certified?

(I think I know the answer to this one.)

a reply to: LordAhriman

My post was pro-mask.

I know.

But your experiment is flawed, easily disproved, and amounts to disinformation. Condensation does not indicate efficacy.

No need to stoop to their level. Buddy.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: LordAhriman

My post was pro-mask.

I know.

But your experiment is flawed, easily disproved, and amounts to disinformation. Condensation does not indicate efficacy.

No need to stoop to their level. Buddy.

I just tried it again. It worked. Maybe my toilet paper is too expensive. Droplets are the moisture from our breath. I can't get moisture to show up on the mirror with toilet paper over my mouth.

a reply to: LordAhriman

Droplets are the moisture from our breath.

What you are seeing on the mirror (or not) is condensed water vapor, not droplets as expelled during speech. The mirror is cooler than your breath so the water vapor condenses on the mirror the same way that on a cold day it condenses in the air and you can "see your breath." Try chilling the mirror a bit before each trial and see what happens.

In any case, as I said, I tried to duplicate your results and was not able to do so. Science.

originally posted by: Phage What you are seeing on the mirror (or not) is condensed water vapor, not droplets as expelled during speech. The mirror is cooler than your breath so the water vapor condenses on the mirror the same way that on a cold day it condenses in the air and you can "see your breath." Try chilling the mirror a bit before each trial and see what happens.

In any case, as I said, I tried to duplicate your results and was not able to do so. Science.

Droplets = respiratory moisture. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

a reply to: LordAhriman

Droplets = respiratory moisture.

Droplets =/= exhaled water vapor.

The "droplets" you see on the mirror are water, they do not form until the exhaled water vapor hits the mirror. Water vapor (individual water molecules) are far too small to carry a virus. Droplets of mucus are large enough to do so.


The experiment I linked demonstrates droplets expelled during speech. Yours does not. It demonstrates the condensation of water vapor. No mask which one can breathe through can stop water vapor.

a reply to: PillarOfFire

Yes. We have immune systems.

So I guess smallpox vaccines (tetanus, polio...) were pointless. Oh, wait. They enabled our immune systems to do what they do without being exposed to the live disease itself.

Just like all vaccines do. Including the COVID vaccines.

a reply to: Phage

a reply to: PillarOfFire

Use your words kiddo.

Memes are for stupid people with poor communication skills.

a reply to: Phage


When is a water droplet an micrometer-size aerosol?

Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19


www.pnas.org...

In addition, nascent micrometer-size aerosols produced from coughing/sneezing of infected people have the potential of containing many viruses, particularly for asymptomatic carriers (16).

Future research is critically needed to assess the transmission, transformation, and dispersion of virus-bearing aerosols from human atomization under different environmental conditions, as well as the related impacts on virus infectivity. It is equally important to understand human atomization of airborne viruses: What are the number and size distributions of nascent aerosols as well as the viral load per particle from coughing/sneezing?

What size must a water droplet be for a virus to remain suspended in the air.

The virus can also spread in poorly ventilated and/or crowded indoor settings, where people tend to spend longer periods of time. This is because aerosols remain suspended in the air or travel farther than 1 metre (long-range).

www.who.int...

I have no problem if they recommend wearing a mask that actually works and seals like a N-95 without a valve. Changing the mask out ever 45 minutes. And had proper mask disposal.

This cheap mask, double mask, cloth mask, homemade bandana crap is a joke.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: PillarOfFire

Yes. We have immune systems.

So I guess smallpox vaccines (tetanus, polio...) were pointless. Oh, wait. They enabled our immune systems to do what they do without being exposed to the live disease itself.

Just like all vaccines do. Including the COVID vaccines.

There's a difference between 'sterilzing' vaccines and the new vaccines......the new ones are leaky.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

In regards to the Delta variant it is yes. Why is that a problem for you?