Iran is indeed not Iraq - And arrogance has always led to the fall of the greatest empires...

Keith Richards can form a new hybrid human race with the cockroaches.

That's as horrifying vision of the future as any I have ever heard

Originally posted by csulli456
I don`t think you understood my question. I know you have seen Farenheit 9/11 but have you seen Farenhype 9/11? There are two movies with similar names. And yes I will debate some of the other stuff in your post.

I understood it, and yes i have seen Farenhype 9/11 , and THATs the reason why i said that (based on my opinion) only 30% of the facts in farenHEIT 9/11 are real.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The United States is a paper tiger???

The United States is the world's only SuperPower, You think we cant beat Iran? It would not even be a challenge, we only attack nations that threaten us or declare war on us.

Oh really? You only attack countries who threaten you or declare war on you, huh? Will you please tell me how many of the 24 countries which you have bombarded after 1945 have threatened you or declared war on you? You don't know what a challenge is since you after WW2 have only attacked small, weak and defenseless countries.

And what is with your ranting on about our society? check out the society of the middle east then come and talk about our way of life.

You are a perfect example of what your society is about today. Arrogance, arrogance, and more arrogance. This cocky "We are the best, strongest..." and "We are invincible..." attitudes..... "Bomb the rest of the world back to the stone age". It seems to me that you are so blinded with arrogance, self-love, and ignorance that there is nothing in the world that could make you realize how ugly it all is in reality. American society - all the way from the rap, hip-hop and vulgarity and bitch culture all the way to the top of the corrupt corporate world is rotting, and it'd getting more and more rotten for every day. Everything is about making a quick buck. Huge chain stores where the poor sales people earn minimum wage at the loss of competence and/ or expertise - So blind and arrogant have these greedy capitalitsts become that they fail to see that it's the quality in service and products that ensure longevity of a business. They just want their quick bucks. Greed is the root of all your evils, and it will cause the downfall of the empire and super power U.S.A. (Not of the U.S. as a country, which will continue to exist in one form or another) greed leads to incompetence, corruption, ignorance, hate, crime, decadence, hysteria, paranoia, violence, and false preachers - All of which we see in the U.S. today. All of which is on the rise in the U.S. today.

Why don't you ask the British, Germans, Japanese, Iraqis, Afghanis, or the Soviets if the United States is a paper tiger.

Wait a moment! Let's take them one at a time, shall we? The British....? Why should we ask the British? Aren't they your allies today - participating in all your neo-colonial/imperial ventures in the Middle East? The Germans.... You were not alone fighting the war on the Germans! At least half of the job was done by the Soviets and the British before you got involved. You were also not alone in the war with the Japs, and you resorted to using the only two nuclear bombs ever used do far in the history of mankind. Do you think that's such a brave thing? I think it's more in line with the actions of a typical paper tiger. The Afghans? Are you kidding? The Afghans? Are you telling me that the U.S. is not a paper tiger because it managed to bomb and invade a small, primitive country which lacked any armed forces? And why should we ask the Soviets about your paper tiger status? As far as I know you never invaded or bombed the Soviet Union, so I don't see why we should ask them about the U.S. being a paper tiger. What we can do is to look at the 24 countries which you have bombed after 1945 and we will see that they were all small and weak countries - particularly in comparison to a super power.

but I will agree reprisal was the outcome...the law of unintended consiquences at work.

Originally posted by xmotex

"Tell them 'Stay in your houses, stay away from windows and stay off the roof and you'll live through Fallujah,'" Formica, of the 1st Cavalry Division's 2nd Brigade, told his battalion commanders in a radio conference call Wednesday night.

Considering even the US admits that one third of the houses were rendered uninhabitable, and 5-10% destroyed, I'd say it's a safe bet a lot of noncombatants got wasted that did exactly as he said.

However much we try to sanitize what we did in Fallujah, it's hard not to see that this was a reprisal operation against a localized populace considered uncooperative. At least that appears to be the effect, even if it was not the publicly proclaimed intention.

Where else have you lived and how old are you?

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
Of course it is inevitable!!! Nothing last forever! If you dont't realize that then your glasses are a bit more rosey colored than I thought.

You are correct in your final assumption that I actually DO welcome the fall of America.(hey one out of three aint bad huh). I know it seems a bit cold or whatever but I think this is a direct result from taking HISTORY into account. As we all know most Americans have a warped sense of history, so whenever something is related to them in this fashion they are usually taken back a bit.


You arrogantly claim that you can have it both ways, and point to my "cut and dry" demeanor to mock it, when it is this very desire to have it all, that has led to America's downfall.

Hey the founding fathers THOUGHT they had it all when they said all men were created equal yet still owned slaves, right? These are the "grey areas" that americans love soo much

Rome didn't fall in one day my friend, take a look around........America is already falling. Funny thing is we won't even be remembered anywhere near how we expect.

I wish I was allowed to take you outside the space time continuum for a moment and show you the days when America will be portrayed as a nation crueler than Romer herself (or Nazi Germany for that matter).........but even then would you bear to face the truth?

You ask me if my life here is soo bad, and I say no! But I have lived in NUMEROUS other countries and preferered them to the good ole USA, sorry.

I also never claimed that America is the worlds only corrupt government.
You make up arguments against what I say with assumptions.

Arrogance (and fighting multiple wars on multiple fronts actually) have always led to this hence the title. Study history and you will find what I am saying to be true.

[edited to address point]

[edit on 27-3-2005 by 1wintermute1]

Siroos

So, are we a super-power, or a paper tiger? If we are as weak as you are saying then why have none of the real super-powers of the world smacked us back down to our actual size? Surely they are able to see as clearly as you that we are no match for anybody other than the defenseless third world countries we have invaded and annexed. Why are they not doing the right thing and stopping us in our tracks? Ever stop to think that the reason the American people have given this idiot administration so much military freedom is not because they are arrogant and blood thirsty, but because this administration fooled most of them into believing the world wants us dead, and here you are confirming that, while you have not stated you want us all dead, you certainly do come off as being less than friendly towards us to say the least. Why is it so hard for anybody but me to acknowledge that their are MANY corrupt governments in the world today, and that the U.S. is not the first, and certainly won't be the last to abuse it's power. If Russia or China were unchallenged militarily, do you honestly think they wouldn't be just as aggressive about their interests as the U.S.? Like I have stated time and again, we as a people, of earth not of country, will live under government oppression until we all come together as one and let these corrupt bastards know we're not going to support any of them. But that will not happen because we are at each others throats, just like they want us to be.

Too many countries owe their lives and well being to the US. Too many countries still exsist because of US presence.
This would never happen.

It would be closer to the truth if you'd say that too many countries hate the U.S. - Too many countries have mourned the death of their loved ones and the destruction of their countries at the hands of the U.S. The only countries that I can think of in recent times where U.S. intervention was favorable would be Bosnia, Kosovo and to some extent Somalia. All three under the Clinton administration. (A man whom I have high regards for) But if Bush jr and the others in his gang of fascists truly intervene in the world because of the autrocities of cruel dictators against their own people or others, as they claim they have done in Afghanistan and Iraq, then why have they not intervened in Rwanda or Darfur? And why have they not delivered any democracies to the most undemocratic countries in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the other Arab sheikhdoms, who all are the puppets of the U.S.?

The U.S. has become a big threat to world peace and hell will break loose if it is allowed to go on with its transgressions.

Got any evidence to support anything in that sentence? I don't think so.

You don't think so, huh? How's 120,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed? How about that the U.S. has bombed 24 countries after 1945? How about the assasinations/assasination attempts of world leaders and politicians by the CIA? How about CIA backed or organized coups around the world? (Only some 20 after 1945) How about the U.S. refusal to sign international treaties such as the Kyoto treaty on global warming, or to recognize the establishment of an international court against war crimes,and how about the U.S. refusal to honor international treaties such the protocol on the containment of nuclear weapons which calls upon the U.S. to gradually and systematically dismantle its nuclear arsenals. Instead the U.S. is expanding its nuclear arsenals, while it at the same time is threatening countries which are legally pursuing a peaceful nuclear programme! How about the U.S. refusal to allow the UN access to its nuclear sites, while insisting that the UN demands access to the nuclear sites of Iran? (Which Iran also has agreed to) Do you seriously think that people around the world are out of touch with reality when 86% of them in a recent survey answered that the U.S. was the biggest threat to world peace? Or could it be that it is you in the U.S. who has a limited access to what is really going on in the world outside of yours?

You don't think so, huh? How's 120,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed? How about that the U.S. has bombed 24 countries after 1945? How about the assasinations/assasination attempts of world leaders and politicians by the CIA? How about CIA backed or organized coups around the world? (Only some 20 after 1945) How about the U.S. refusal to sign international treaties such as the Kyoto treaty on global warming, or to recognize the establishment of an international court against war crimes,and how about the U.S. refusal to honor international treaties such the protocol on the containment of nuclear weapons which calls upon the U.S. to gradually and systematically dismantle its nuclear arsenals. Instead the U.S. is expanding its nuclear arsenals, while it at the same time is threatening countries which are legally pursuing a peaceful nuclear programme! How about the U.S. refusal to allow the UN access to its nuclear sites, while insisting that the UN demands access to the nuclear sites of Iran? (Which Iran also has agreed to) Do you seriously think that people around the world are out of touch with reality when 86% of them in a recent survey answered that the U.S. was the biggest threat to world peace? Or could it be that it is you in the U.S. who has a limited access to what is really going on in the world outside of yours?

Sad thing is most in America will NEVER realize this.....

Exodus 10:1-And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
Sad thing is most in America will NEVER realize this.....

I think well over 50% of America realizes this. Why wintermute, do you insist on generalizing so much? First we're all arrogant, now we're all part of the blind minority who will not accept that we do wrong. Well, minority when it comes to actual numbers, not voting, which they were the majority because they are such followers they were easily rallied. Not so with our side, many of whom were too involved elsewhere, or were just too lazy to vote. So much for P Diddy and Eminem's calls to action, their audience was worthless when it came to actually getting off the couch or off the cell phone long enough to vote. So really, IMO, Bush's re-election is at the hands of his lazy opposition. Bush's camp manipulated the right populace, and now just as I knew he would, he blew them off. I'll bet Bush would be ALOT more vocal about that lady that all the Christians are so upset about starving to death if it were election time.

But back on topic, what wintermute, do you suggest we do to correct the things Siroos posted that "most of America will NEVER realize? I'm just wondering if you have a plan to help better your country, other than taking part in bashing it with foreigners? Maybe by continuing to support the evil government you so adamantly oppose by continuing to live your life, paying taxes, and feeding the war machine? What are you doing differently than "most of America", other than realizing?

Exodus 10:1-And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Do all of your positions in life come from a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men who believed the earth was the center of the universe? You've got your own modern brain, use it and take the fairy tales with a BIG grain of salt.

Originally posted by 27jd
Siroos

So, are we a super-power, or a paper tiger? If we are as weak as you are saying then why have none of the real super-powers of the world smacked us back down to our actual size? Surely they are able to see as clearly as you that we are no match for anybody other than the defenseless third world countries we have invaded and annexed.

Simply because they are not agressors to the extent the U.S. has become. China is busy developing its country and economy, and they're a peaceful nation who do not want to get involved in a unnecessary war. Russia is busy dealing with its own economy and the last thing it needs is a bloody war. Remember that war is bloody and destructive business, and most decent and rational countries will want to avoid one at almost any cost. But why don't we alter your question a bit and ask why the U.S. so far never has got itself involved in an armed conflict with any of these countries? Why didn't the U.S. bomb China when it insisted that the U.S. should apologize for the U.S. spy plane incident before it would return the plane to the U.S.? Why did the U.S. finally instead give in and apologize instead of just "bombing those chinks back to the stone age" in the real American spirit?

Ever stop to think that the reason the American people have given this idiot administration so much military freedom is not because they are arrogant and blood thirsty, but because this administration fooled most of them into believing the world wants us dead, and here you are confirming that, while you have not stated you want us all dead, you certainly do come off as being less than friendly towards us to say the least.

I'm more aware of the realities in the U.S. then you seem to imagine. I have alreadey made it perfectly clear in several of my messages that my quarrel is not with the general population of the U.S. but rather with certain very disturbing elements within your society. While many of those who voted this administration into office were as you say fooled to vote for him, I am also convinced that many others wholeheartedly support his war on Islam, Muslims and the third world, and anyone who dares to question America's "right" to world hegemony. But I'm also aware of a very large portion of the American population who are decent and peace-loving Americans, and some of them are some of the finest people in the world. But I insist on the existence of a disturbing upwards trend of extremely negative values in your society which is becoming increasingly evident on all levels of your society and in all classes. Values involving greed, arrogance, selfishness, violence, hypocrisy, vulgarity, the violation of other people's rights and a lack of all kinds of morals. I'm not saying that all Americans have lost it, but unfortunately a large enough number of people to make a big and evident difference in your society and the world. And I say the world because everything you do affects many parts of the world because of the globalized nature of the world we live in today and because of your influential media. I'm convinced that for example MTV and many American reality shows has directly caused many youngsters in the world to become extremely vulgar, cocky and competitive in a negative way, and also promiscious and lacking in moral values of all kinds, but can we hold the U.S. responsible for the affect of MTV on the youth of the world? No ofcourse we can't - Not the whole of U.S., but the fact is that all these kinds of negatives that we see in our world today are traced back to the U.S., So where do we place the responsibility? On the U.S. government? On the U.S. corporate world? Hollywood? Reality is that no single person, group of people, institution or organization can single handedly be held liable for the damages afflicted upon the brains of hundreds of millions of youngsters around the world. It is the collective values of a society which causes certain prevailing attitudes, and thus society as a whole should be held responsible. It is therefore not possible to accuse the U.S. government for all the ills of American society today. But on the other hand it's possible to conclude that the current U.S. government is a possible result of the many ills that exist in American society today. But that does not mean that everything in the American society is bad today. Nor does it mean that all Americans are at fault. What I mean to say though is that American society at large is ailing today. In order to save the U.S. and a large part of the world from a dark future American society has to wake up and make a conscious effort to be more self-critical instead of constantly endulge in self-flattering. Nothing can be solved if one fails to be self-critical.

Why is it so hard for anybody but me to acknowledge that their are MANY corrupt governments in the world today, and that the U.S. is not the first, and certainly won't be the last to abuse it's power. If Russia or China were unchallenged militarily, do you honestly think they wouldn't be just as aggressive about their interests as the U.S.?

We can't live with the ifs - We must live and face that which is. Sure there are many other corrupt governments than the U.S., and many of them are also much more corrupt than the U.S., but that's not the issue here. The fact remains that the U.S. is the country which has ventured out on a crusade in the world to remove any obstacles to its "New American Century" of neo-imperialism and world hegemony - The obstacles in question can be governments, political figures, and yes even entire religions, countries and cultures! By doing so once can actually conclude that the U.S. has already begun what will be the third world war - the most devastating war in the history of mannkind. The world war itself has not begun but the U.S. is in the process of laying the ground for it without being aware of it - which is usually the case in the fate of such countries.

Like I have stated time and again, we as a people, of earth not of country, will live under government oppression until we all come together as one and let these corrupt bastards know we're not going to support any of them. But that will not happen because we are at each others throats, just like they want us to be.

Well, I'm not a pessimist when it comes to the future of the world. We currently live in one of the darkest periods of the history of mankind - perhaps the darkest. Yes, even darker than the dark ages and the plague. We're just not aware of it, just as they were not aware of it in those times. And I think it's going to get much worse than this before it turns around and we'll head for much brighter times - brighter than ever. We will become more arrogant, selfish, ignorant, proud, hateful, corrupt and hypocritical. And I'm afraid that as a result (Because I believe in Karma or shall we instead call it cause and effect) we will see a lot of miseries, like diseases and bloody wars. It will take suffering and great loss for us to wake up to our senses. Then things will turn around and we will move towards brighter times - brighter than we have ever previously known. Ultimately we will have one world, one people, one God, no religions such as we know them today, and no more borders. I'm certain that this will happen.

Originally posted by Siroos
Then things will turn around and we will move towards brighter times - brighter than we have ever previously known. Ultimately we will have one world, one people, one God, no religions such as we know them today, and no more borders. I'm certain that this will happen.

Well, at least we have the same goals in the end. Those are exactly my hopes for the future, and I believe it will be the natural evolution of man. I hope man will realize there is a higher power, but it does not wish to be defined or worshipped or argued about, it is beyond mans interpretation and it certainly should not be a reason for war. I hope we can reach this without the dark times you predict, I guess we'll just have to see.

I think well over 50% of America realizes this. Why wintermute, do you insist on generalizing so much? First we're all arrogant, now we're all part of the blind minority who will not accept that we do wrong. Well, minority when it comes to actual numbers, not voting, which they were the majority because they are such followers they were easily rallied. Not so with our side, many of whom were too involved elsewhere, or were just too lazy to vote. So much for P Diddy and Eminem's calls to action, their audience was worthless when it came to actually getting off the couch or off the cell phone long enough to vote. So really, IMO, Bush's re-election is at the hands of his lazy opposition. Bush's camp manipulated the right populace, and now just as I knew he would, he blew them off. I'll bet Bush would be ALOT more vocal about that lady that all the Christians are so upset about starving to death if it were election time.

But back on topic, what wintermute, do you suggest we do to correct the things Siroos posted that "most of America will NEVER realize? I'm just wondering if you have a plan to help better your country, other than taking part in bashing it with foreigners? Maybe by continuing to support the evil government you so adamantly oppose by continuing to live your life, paying taxes, and feeding the war machine? What are you doing differently than "most of America", other than realizing?

Exodus 10:1-And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Do all of your positions in life come from a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men who believed the earth was the center of the universe? You've got your own modern brain, use it and take the fairy tales with a BIG grain of salt.

I generalize because it is nec (of course there are exceptions, genearlizing is a way of saying the majority, or mean population that's all ). The fact of the matter is, if most Americans did realize this then they would of been doing more to change it by now. We would be holding our government accountable. This is not happening though.

You honestly feel the election was not rigged?interesting.

As for paying taxes, and supporting the war machine I hate, as you put it. Without getting too much into finances here, let's just say I do my part to pay as little in taxes as possible.

How to avoid this. HAHA ! Arrogance AND ignorance to assume we can. And also, unless I am mistaken, the topic of this thread is NOT how to avoid the collapse . That is something that YOU want to do. I want it TO collapse REMEMBER? So perhaps you should ask what I am doing to help that?Hmmm?

As for my bible quote ,I am a student of history and I often quote ancient text'. I find the parralells fascinating. Americans hearts have been hardened, like another peoples, thats the only point. REPETITION!

You however assume that we are not doomed to repeat the past. THIS IS ARROGANCE AND THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, NOT HOW TO STOP IT FROM HAPPENING "Those who do not know their past are doomed to repeat it". Ever hear of that? It is your arrogance that assumes otherwise. Somehow we are different right?

Fact of the matter is due to our horrible public educational system most DO NOT know their history, which makes it inevitable that we only repeat it.
Hell most do not even know the present. Like the one who earlier in the thread claimed our economy was growing despite the FACT that our currency is devaluating.

It is this unique combination of ignorance, and arrogance that lead to collapse. Once again that is the topic of the thread my fiend, so will you please stay on topic?

[edited for clarity, and politeness]

[edit on 29-3-2005 by 1wintermute1]

[edit on 29-3-2005 by 1wintermute1]

[edit on 29-3-2005 by 1wintermute1]

Originally posted by Mr Carburetor
Siroos, my only hatred is when a person comes into a thread flinging accusations and offensive adjectives about a specific nation when they themselves don't know enough about its people.

I really think you should address some of your fellow Americans on this board - Have you read some of the things they write? I have been responding to comments such as "We should bomb them back to the stone age..." but without insulting Americans as a people, but rather as a country where arrogance rules today. So I do not know what you're referring to when you accuse me of using offensive adjectives about Americans.... Could you perhaps refer to something specific I said? I think that the problem is that some Americans are super-sensitive to any kind of criticism against their society and take it very personally.

I agree that most americans don't know enough about Iran to pre-judge, however it is the same for Iranians pre-judging all americans.

I think that most Iranians know much more about Americans than Americans know about Iran and Iranians. I also think that most people of other countries know more about other peoples and countries than Americans know about other peoples and other countries. Therefore there is a whole lot more of pre-judging of Iranians by Americans than there is pre-judging of Americans by Iranians. I shouldn't say that I think in this case, but rather that I know because I have been exposed sufficiently to both societies to make such an observation.

My comment about the soldier and militant was simply to show that Iranian militants are just as prone to underestimate an american soldier as an american soldier is prone to underestimate a Iranian militant.

It certainly didn't sound that way though. Reading your comment again and again I get the impression that the person who wrote it seems to be joyful at the death of an Iranian soldier.

The reason some Americans in this thread may seem arrogant and humble, is because they have been offended by your approch.

Arrogant, yes, but hardly humble.... If you read my initial post in this thread, what in it would you say is so offensive? I on the other hand found their responses to that message offensive, so I turned up the volume of my assertiveness so that it slightly walked over the border to being a little agressive perhaps - but that was my reaction to what I found offensive in ther responds to my messages.

I called it hypocritical when you approch people the way you did, and then when they respond, you accuse them of being facists and arrogant Americans. They have every right to start flaming you.

I approached them because of the way they approached me and my nationality. How would you feel if I preached here that we should bomb the U.S. back to the stone age. Iran is my country and I feel very strongly about anyone who even just thinks of targeting an Iranian mosquito. I think you are being quite biased because you seem to have the feeling that the U.S. has the right to do whatever it pleases anywhere in the world, and that Americans have the right to be obnoxious and offensive, but if anyone accuses the U.S. for committing criminal acts or Americans for being obnoxious then you brand them as being offensive. Any American who supports a bombardment of Iran or any other innocent country is an arrogant fascist in my book!

There are much better ways to bring about your emotional thoughts than to offend every American on this site. And im sorry i beg to differ on your thoughts about Americans, as there are alot of good hearted, kind , and respectful families out there that you just don't see. Maybe it is you that is more influenced by our media, by the way you are judging americans.......maybe you watched too much "South Park"

Carburetor

I have not offended Americans on this site half as much as some Americans have offended others on this site. I think what you are doing is pretty much in line with what your government is so good at doing which is to spit venom in the face of people and yell snake! We don't differ at all on my thoughts of Americans. If you would read some of my messages you will see that I make it perfectly clear that I have high regards for many Americans. My quarrel is with certain elements within your society not with the entire American people. Sorry, I don't know what "South Park" is. Try to be less biased and more objective.

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
I generalize because it is nec (of course there are exceptions, genearlizing is a way of saying the majority, or mean population that's all ). .

You have no real idea what the majority believes, all you can do is rely on polls and data used to push an agenda. If you believe the majority of people support Bush you are accepting propaganda hook line and sinker.

The fact of the matter is, if most Americans did realize this then they would of been doing more to change it by now. We would be holding our government accountable. This is not happening though.

Americans DO realize, everybody I know despises this administration, however we also have responsibilities such as work and caring for our families, you know, the rat race. We've been stuck in it before Bush and will be stuck in it long after Bush. What would you have us do? Forego feeding our families to hold the government accountable? And how would we hold our government accountable exactly? Other than the numerous legal cases probably already filed against this administration?

You honetly feel the election was not rigged?interesting.

No, I never said that at all. I just don't have any proof so I would just be making allegations like everybody else. Not so interesting, huh?

As for paying taxes, and supporting the war machine I hate, as you put it. Without getting too much into finances here, let's just say more of my money is offshore than on.

So, you have all your food, electricity, gas, water, housing, internet service, phone, etc. shipped in from offshore? That's a pretty neat trick.

Unless I am mistaken the topic of this thread is NOT how to avoid the collapse . That is something that YOU want to do. I want it TO collapse REMEMBER?

You are mistaken, the topic of this thread was mainly about the differences between Iran and Iraq, you and I have had little discussion of either.

So perhaps you should ask what I am doing to help that? hmmm.

Unless your a spy, again, nothing more than bitching. Your not helping either the collapse or preservation of America. Your a very unhelpful person.

AS for my bible quote I am a student of history and I often quote ancient text'. I find the parralells fascinating.

I would say you're obsessed with the parallels.

You assume that we are not doomed to repeat the past? THIS IS ARROGANCE AND THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, NOT HOW TO STOP IT FROM HAPPENING

So, in a discussion about repeating the past, figuring out how to prevent it is not a valid point of the discussion? If I were to want to make a point about prevention, I would have to start a new thread maybe titled "A way to stop the arrogance that has always led to the fall of the greatest empires"?

Those who do not know their past are doomed to repeat it. Ever hear of that?

Yeah, in grade school. And it's true to an extent, but not in every case 100% of the time, slight variations lead to different outcomes. Take the nearly identical earthquake in Indonesia for example, it was slightly more southward and this time caused no tsunamis at all. Ever watch Jurassic Park? Dr. Malcolm's chaos theory was right on in my opinion.

It is your arrogance that assumes otherwise. SOmehow we are different right?

There you go with the "arrogance" again. The only thing I see repeating itself 100% is you.

Fact of the matter is due to our horrible public educational system most DO NOT know their history, which makes it inevitable that we only repeat it.

History taught in public school is a government created farce anyways, I thought you of all people would be aware of that. The kids have no choice but not to know true history, none of us do, again, unless we were there.

Hell most do not even know the present. Like the one who earlier in the thread claimed our economy was growing despite the FACT that our currency is devalutaing.

The economy IS growing, not at an alarming rate, but it's steady. Where do you get your info?

It is this unique combination of ignorance, and arrogance that lead to collapse. Once again that is the topic of the thread, so you please stay on topic.

No, I will make whatever point I think is valid to the topic, and I will not ask if you think it is on or off. That's what mods are for and if any think that discussing ways to prevent the fall of America is off the topic OF the fall of America, may they speak out now, thanks.

Originally posted by 27jd
No, I will make whatever point I think is valid to the topic, and I will not ask if you think it is on or off. That's what mods are for and if any think that discussing ways to prevent the fall of America is off the topic OF the fall of America, may they speak out now, thanks.

Oh man don't take everything soo seriously.

I' ll U2u . This is way too long

Originally posted by Siroos
I think that most Iranians know much more about Americans than Americans know about Iran and Iranians. I also think that most people of other countries know more about other peoples and countries than Americans know about other peoples and other countries. Therefore there is a whole lot more of pre-judging of Iranians by Americans than there is pre-judging of Americans by Iranians. I shouldn't say that I think in this case, but rather that I know because I have been exposed sufficiently to both societies to make such an observation.

You should also say most Americans instead of just Americans. I am very interested in all cultures on earth. I'm no expert but I have learned my share living in a country so full of people from all cultures. I understand your frustration when my fellow Americans make ignorant and violent comments, it frustrates me as well. It frustrates me to see anybody who believes any person is more important than another based on nationality religion, or anything for that matter. Children are children. Ignore the "bomb them back to the stoneage" comments, they are not even worth giving a second thought. I wouldn't worry too much about your country coming under U.S. attack, there would be no support for it here. Although I do not think your leaders, not because they are Iranian or muslim, but because they are fundamentalists, who put religion above all else, should have nuclear weapons. But that is not our decision to make, if you trust them not to nuke Israel because they don't think they should exist, then I hope you're right, for your sake. Israel already has many nukes and would retaliate, completely destroying your country. The reason Israel or the U.S. would not initiate a nuclear war is not because they care about their people, but because they care about money, and nuclear war would be hell on the economy. There are few countries these days governed exclusively by religion and not money, do you trust the mullahs not to decide to martyr Iran to destroy Israel? Nuclear weapons as a deterrent is one thing, but nuclear weapons in the hands of religious fundamentalists of any kind, Christian, Muslim, or whatever, is worrying because they think they have a higher purpose than this planet. As an Iranian, do you trust nuclear weapons in the hands of your current government?

Originally posted by Siroos

It will take suffering and great loss for us to wake up to our senses. Then things will turn around and we will move towards brighter times - brighter than we have ever previously known. Ultimately we will have one world, one people, one God, no religions such as we know them today, and no more borders. I'm certain that this will happen.

Now THAT is one creepy thought for a "brighter" time. So much for individuality. Will there be freedom in this world of yours? Will they have names or just numbers?

Originally posted by Yorga
Facist Imperialist! You must stay awake at nights thinking of long impressive words to call America. Why don't you just say USA?
Iran vs USA? USA wins! See that is so much quicker and takes so much
less space! But instead of doing this one Arab country at a time, why don't you throw in Syria, Jordan or any other arab country you can think of.
Then it'll be Ragheaded Vagina-phobes against Facist Imperialist.
USA still wins!

Just another proud arrogant Facist Imperialist American!

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Yorga]

All of you are arrogant! Another proud nationalist

Originally posted by Siroos

Too many countries owe their lives and well being to the US. Too many countries still exsist because of US presence.
This would never happen.

It would be closer to the truth if you'd say that too many countries hate the U.S. - Too many countries have mourned the death of their loved ones and the destruction of their countries at the hands of the U.S. The only countries that I can think of in recent times where U.S. intervention was favorable would be Bosnia, Kosovo and to some extent Somalia. All three under the Clinton administration. (A man whom I have high regards for) But if Bush jr and the others in his gang of fascists truly intervene in the world because of the autrocities of cruel dictators against their own people or others, as they claim they have done in Afghanistan and Iraq, then why have they not intervened in Rwanda or Darfur? And why have they not delivered any democracies to the most undemocratic countries in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the other Arab sheikhdoms, who all are the puppets of the U.S.?

The U.S. has become a big threat to world peace and hell will break loose if it is allowed to go on with its transgressions.

Got any evidence to support anything in that sentence? I don't think so.

You don't think so, huh? How's 120,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed? How about that the U.S. has bombed 24 countries after 1945? How about the assasinations/assasination attempts of world leaders and politicians by the CIA? How about CIA backed or organized coups around the world? (Only some 20 after 1945) How about the U.S. refusal to sign international treaties such as the Kyoto treaty on global warming, or to recognize the establishment of an international court against war crimes,and how about the U.S. refusal to honor international treaties such the protocol on the containment of nuclear weapons which calls upon the U.S. to gradually and systematically dismantle its nuclear arsenals. Instead the U.S. is expanding its nuclear arsenals, while it at the same time is threatening countries which are legally pursuing a peaceful nuclear programme! How about the U.S. refusal to allow the UN access to its nuclear sites, while insisting that the UN demands access to the nuclear sites of Iran? (Which Iran also has agreed to) Do you seriously think that people around the world are out of touch with reality when 86% of them in a recent survey answered that the U.S. was the biggest threat to world peace? Or could it be that it is you in the U.S. who has a limited access to what is really going on in the world outside of yours?

Exactly, if countries don't support the US, they get stomped on! For what reason?

Originally posted by 1wintermute1

You don't think so, huh? How's 120,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed? How about that the U.S. has bombed 24 countries after 1945? How about the assasinations/assasination attempts of world leaders and politicians by the CIA? How about CIA backed or organized coups around the world? (Only some 20 after 1945) How about the U.S. refusal to sign international treaties such as the Kyoto treaty on global warming, or to recognize the establishment of an international court against war crimes,and how about the U.S. refusal to honor international treaties such the protocol on the containment of nuclear weapons which calls upon the U.S. to gradually and systematically dismantle its nuclear arsenals. Instead the U.S. is expanding its nuclear arsenals, while it at the same time is threatening countries which are legally pursuing a peaceful nuclear programme! How about the U.S. refusal to allow the UN access to its nuclear sites, while insisting that the UN demands access to the nuclear sites of Iran? (Which Iran also has agreed to) Do you seriously think that people around the world are out of touch with reality when 86% of them in a recent survey answered that the U.S. was the biggest threat to world peace? Or could it be that it is you in the U.S. who has a limited access to what is really going on in the world outside of yours?

Sad thing is most in America will NEVER realize this.....

Exodus 10:1-And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Never realize? Hell, they don't even know about it!!!