Arizona Audit Update: Full Report in 1 Month

a reply to: MiddleInsite
a reply to: jrod

So is it fair to say that you both are speaking as much for yourselves as anyone else?

In other words, have you both already made your minds up and it doesn't matter what the report says, or what it can prove or not prove, you're going to continue believing what you already believe?

Is there anything that could/would change your own pre-determined opinions?

Covid-19 pushed sick people over the cliff.

A damaging report out of Arizona will push weak Biden over the cliff.

originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Scrutinizing

...that woman...

I believe you are referring to Sidney Powell and her kracken -- yes? And I'm with you there. Not just her, but Guiliani as well. Their efforts never set quite right to me. More than once I had to raise an eyebrow and wonder "what the hell are they thinking???"

I still wonder if their efforts were genuine...

Yes, that's her, you're right, and kracken, too, sorry that I like to play around with goofball words. A further absurdity is that kracken would indicate some overwhelming, slam dunk, dead to rights case, flashing neon, too. There are all sorts of partisan judges and the like, but that no court has found the evidence worthy of pursuing speaks for itself, and, as you point out, Giuliani as well, as much as I admire his record of service and achievements on the law and order front. I have thought at least Giuliani is sincere, not without precedent a man of honest intent got royally hoodwinked, like Colin Powell at the U.N. In any case, you hit the nail on the head for a thinking person, competent to serve on a jury, that it's, "Who knows?" Truth is truth, wherever it leads, whatever the case, truth the only thing of value. I can only speak for myself, but I'm conservative, this having nothing to do with being a partisan hack. I hate all liars.

Both Rudy and Sydney had very good reputations and success before these accusations made against Dominion. Im still baffled why they risked their reputations so. They were convinced. Hopefully, we will know someday.

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Scrutinizing

.....

And that's the purpose of the audit. They can either prove wrongdoing or the can't. They either will or they won't. We know weasel words when we see them. We know the difference between proof and baseless claims. We know the difference between fact and opinion.

Unfortunately , I don't think your assumption is correct and I will explain why.

The purpose of an election and all the recounts and official audits that may follow it is to provide certainty about the outcome of that election. If more of the electorate voted for candidate A than for candidate B, then the process needs to definitively come to that conclusion. Obviously, we've been running elections in the US for hundreds of years, and therefore it shouldn't be surprising that the processes and procedures for certifying elections has been well worked out by now.

There are three main factors that go in to providing certainty about an election. The first is that the tallying process has to be mathematically sound. In Maricopa County, for example, Biden beat Trump by 2.2 percent, or 2.2 votes out of every 100. Generally speaking, you would like the tallying process to have an error rate maybe 1/10 the size of the margin you are trying to measure. For Maricopa County, that would require an error rate in the tallying of no more than about 2.2 out of every thousand votes cast, or about 1 error out of every 450 votes cast. The second necessary factor is security. There has to be a process in place to make sure that ballots and tallying machines are secure from tampering, alteration, or substitution. This usually done by rules that require all ballots and machines to be in locked, guarded facilities at all times and to require that access to ballots and machines is restricted only to those having a need to use them for official purposes and who have undergone some kind of background check to verify personnel reliability. The third factor is transparency. Whenever a recount or audit is conducted, transparency assures that the losing team can watch the process in action and, if necessary, go back after the fact and reconstruct the results.

The clown show that's going on in Maricopa County has violated every one of those principles. The Arizona Secretary of State (who conducted the official audit that confirmed Biden's win) has described two or three processes that the Cyber Ninjas used that are likely to lead to a mathematical uncertainty that's greater than the 2.2% margin separating Biden and Trump. The Ninjas have also been observed employing practices that violate the security of the process, such as walking around the audit room with blue and black pens that are capable of permanently altering ballots (you're only supposed to have red pens, because the tallying machines can't read red markings). They also left cages containing the ballots open at the top and unguarded. And finally, they are very far from transparent. For example, they introduced some kind of scanning for bamboo fibers without revealing exactly what that process is. They have "proprietary" algorithms that are supposed to do the number crunching. Why the hell would you need a "proprietary" algorithm to add a column of numbers? Proprietary, by definition means secret i.e., the opposite of transparent.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the net result of all these Ninja screwups will be increased UNCERTAINTY in the results, not increased CERTAINTY.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that is probably the exact result that the Arizona Senate Republicans had in mind when they went down this path.

FWIW your concerns about the security of the audit are exactly how persons feel about certain elections in certain counties. As I've mentioned any findings will obviously be refuted and doubted by some, but ultimately if there isn't anything to it and it has no merit, it's not gonna change a thing except a few local and state politicians might be voted out or in depending on where they are and the political climate.

How can you not trust a group called "Cyber Ninjas" ?

Will they be able to overturn the electoral college that made the final decision?

originally posted by: olaru12
How can you not trust a group called "Cyber Ninjas" ?

I don't care what they call themselves... I don't trust anyone no matter what they call themselves... the proof (or lack thereof) will be in the pudding.

But to the topic at hand, does this mean that you don't trust them... and do not trust whatever findings they report? Will you at least give the report a looksee? Or have you already made your mind up?

Will they be able to overturn the electoral college that made the final decision?

Not as far as I know... and there will be no effort to do so, nor was it ever their intention to do so. At least not by the auditors or the Senate.

The results will inform and inspire necessary and proper election reform in Arizona by our Senate (and House), as is the Constitutional duty and responsibility of the states' legislatures.

a reply to: Boadicea

I don't care what they call themselves... I don't trust anyone no matter what they call themselves... the proof (or lack thereof) will be in the pudding.

I feel the same way about the "cyber Ninjas" the way the Qanon rightwingers feel about the election results.

I will look at the data and make a decision, but like you I don't trust anyone, especially groups that have an agenda to overturn elections. Lets see the data and have it verified by a bipartisan group and let the chips fall where they may.

www.azcentral.com...

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Boadicea

I feel the same way about the "cyber Ninjas" the way the Qanon rightwingers feel about the election results.

Fair enough. I would be more concerned if Cyber Ninjas -- or anyone actually -- were working alone. As I understand it, Cyber Ninjas is the lead auditor, but there are a few others working with them, not to mention all the workers on the floor. Too many people know too much to keep anything quiet for long. (Although I give them all major kudos for no credible leaks so far!)

But I do see a few red flags. I'll give them the next month to give us something concrete, and give us the transparency -- full transparency -- into what they found, and how they found it. Whatever it is they find. Even if that is only a partial or preliminary report, to be supplemented with later reports. But if it's dragged out any further, if we don't get something worth all the trouble, then I'll be reconsidering and re-evaluating a few things...

I will look at the data and make a decision...

I figure that's the best and the least we can do. Read it for ourselves, see what it's got to say, and go from there.

...but like you I don't trust anyone, especially groups that have an agenda to overturn elections. Lets see the data and have it verified by a bipartisan group and let the chips fall where they may.

www.azcentral.com...

I refuse to pay the 99 cents for access to AZCentral (you can laugh at me -- I'm laughing at myself!), but I think that's the story about Arizona Republic filing a lawsuit for all audit-related materials? Within reason, I'm totally on board with that, for the same reason Dominion should be turning over the passwords and also be subject to public scrutiny. Dominion, Cyber Ninjas, the Senate -- They are all in their respective positions for OUR benefit -- not theirs. They serve OUR will -- we don't serve theirs.

However, I can accept having that information released at the same time as the report. It all serves informing the public and furthering the credibility of the auditors, their methods, and their findings.

originally posted by: watchitburn

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Boadicea
My best guess is that most people -- the vast majority of people -- will accept the findings IF the auditors have done their job properly, and can and do document and prove their findings.

My prediction is it won't change one person's opinion regardless of what they find either way. Just like that report....

Mueller? Mueller? Anyone? Mueller?

The Mueller report showed what most rational people expected it to show : Nothing

For those who would appreciate a refresher of what transpired from 2017 thru 2020;

Here twitter.com... is a brutally honest, 35-entry Twitter thread which has gone "viral", because it outlines WHY:

1.) A majority of Republicans and Independents believe Joe Biden won the Presidency, due to ELECTION CHEATING-FRAUD.

2.) The Main Stream Media is viewed as Evil, Corrupt, and America's #1 Internal Enemy.

3.) Democrats in Congress are now Living In Fear, due to relentlessly attacking tens of millions of Americans, on multiple fronts, since Jan 20, 2017.

After a sufficient number of damning truths are revealed, Americans will feel comfortable going to the voting booth in Nov 2022, and effecting major changes in Congress, and coast-to-coast in State & City elections!

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Scrutinizing

...that woman...

I believe you are referring to Sidney Powell and her kracken -- yes? And I'm with you there. Not just her, but Guiliani as well. Their efforts never set quite right to me. More than once I had to raise an eyebrow and wonder "what the hell are they thinking???"

I still wonder if their efforts were genuine...

Yes, that's her, you're right, and kracken, too, sorry that I like to play around with goofball words. A further absurdity is that kracken would indicate some overwhelming, slam dunk, dead to rights case, flashing neon, too. There are all sorts of partisan judges and the like, but that no court has found the evidence worthy of pursuing speaks for itself, and, as you point out, Giuliani as well, as much as I admire his record of service and achievements on the law and order front. I have thought at least Giuliani is sincere, not without precedent a man of honest intent got royally hoodwinked, like Colin Powell at the U.N. In any case, you hit the nail on the head for a thinking person, competent to serve on a jury, that it's, "Who knows?" Truth is truth, wherever it leads, whatever the case, truth the only thing of value. I can only speak for myself, but I'm conservative, this having nothing to do with being a partisan hack. I hate all liars.

Both Rudy and Sydney had very good reputations and success before these accusations made against Dominion. Im still baffled why they risked their reputations so. They were convinced. Hopefully, we will know someday.

Maybe they didn't risk their reputation. Maybe they had facts and the facts were never looked at. That would make the ones not wanting the facts to come out pushing an agenda to ruin their reputation. To hide their culpability. Nobody seems to think about it in that manner.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Boadicea

I don't care what they call themselves... I don't trust anyone no matter what they call themselves... the proof (or lack thereof) will be in the pudding.

Lets see the data and have it verified by a bipartisan group and let the chips fall where they may.

That's the problem right there with that kind of thinking. If true fraud is found, lots of it, those perpetrating the fraud will just ignore that information and there will be no "bipartisan" group look at it. And that will allow the Leftists to keep lying and saying, "See? We were right. No fraud."

Edit to add:
The Leftists are always making conditions to leave themselves a way out of everything. If true fraud is found and proven, there will be no need for a "bipartisan" group to look at it and verify it. It will already have been proven. Then.... if you don't accept the facts, that's your problem, not the problem of the group that found the facts.

Double post.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: watchitburn

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Boadicea
My best guess is that most people -- the vast majority of people -- will accept the findings IF the auditors have done their job properly, and can and do document and prove their findings.

My prediction is it won't change one person's opinion regardless of what they find either way. Just like that report....

Mueller? Mueller? Anyone? Mueller?

The Mueller report showed what most rational people expected it to show : Nothing

For those who would appreciate a refresher of what transpired from 2017 thru 2020;

Here twitter.com... is a brutally honest, 35-entry Twitter thread which has gone "viral", because it outlines WHY:

Did you happen to read through all the comments of that very descriptive thread? People were saying [what he laid out] was all just lies. Quote: "All of this is a lie."

And then you get to the bottom of the comments and Twitter kindly gave me a warning that the following hidden comments may have some objectional material in them. I clicked to show them anyway and there was only one comment and all it said was, "Spot on" - agreeing with the one who wrote the thread. Of course Twitter would find it objectional because it didn't come from some Looney Lefty respouting the same lies over and over.

It's so obvious the Left is trying to cover up something. Why are so many people so blind to this blatant behaviour?

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Scrutinizing

...that woman...

I believe you are referring to Sidney Powell and her kracken -- yes? And I'm with you there. Not just her, but Guiliani as well. Their efforts never set quite right to me. More than once I had to raise an eyebrow and wonder "what the hell are they thinking???"

I still wonder if their efforts were genuine...

Yes, that's her, you're right, and kracken, too, sorry that I like to play around with goofball words. A further absurdity is that kracken would indicate some overwhelming, slam dunk, dead to rights case, flashing neon, too. There are all sorts of partisan judges and the like, but that no court has found the evidence worthy of pursuing speaks for itself, and, as you point out, Giuliani as well, as much as I admire his record of service and achievements on the law and order front. I have thought at least Giuliani is sincere, not without precedent a man of honest intent got royally hoodwinked, like Colin Powell at the U.N. In any case, you hit the nail on the head for a thinking person, competent to serve on a jury, that it's, "Who knows?" Truth is truth, wherever it leads, whatever the case, truth the only thing of value. I can only speak for myself, but I'm conservative, this having nothing to do with being a partisan hack. I hate all liars.

Both Rudy and Sydney had very good reputations and success before these accusations made against Dominion. Im still baffled why they risked their reputations so. They were convinced. Hopefully, we will know someday.

Maybe they didn't risk their reputation. Maybe they had facts and the facts were never looked at. That would make the ones not wanting the facts to come out pushing an agenda to ruin their reputation. To hide their culpability. Nobody seems to think about it in that manner.

Thats kinda what Im saying! They had the facts. Thats a very plausible explanation for them both risking their reputations. And they HAD to know that it was a very big claim carrying very big risk. They didnt both go just crazy and dream it all up!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: jrod

So you're saying it won't change anyone's opinion.

But if you are shown facts, real facts, and you still refuse to accept reality, the idiot stamp can only be placed where it belongs. I'd wait and see what is presented before assuming I was omnipotent.

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

That's the problem right there with that kind of thinking. If true fraud is found, lots of it, those perpetrating the fraud will just ignore that information and there will be no "bipartisan" group look at it. And that will allow the Leftists to keep lying and saying, "See? We were right. No fraud."

Edit to add:
The Leftists are always making conditions to leave themselves a way out of everything. If true fraud is found and proven, there will be no need for a "bipartisan" group to look at it and verify it. It will already have been proven. Then.... if you don't accept the facts, that's your problem, not the problem of the group that found the facts.

The real beauty and virtue of making the report public -- with all the whys and hows and wherefores that went into the findings -- is that everyone can read the report and judge for themselves. All of it. The good, the bad and the ugly. No one has to take anyone's word for anything. No one has to rely on anyone's interpretation of the facts. No one has to read between the lines or wonder what's not being said out loud. Republicans, Democrats, third parties, independents -- anyone and everyone.

In many ways, it is not just "bipartisan" or even nonpartisan, but it is actually anti-partisan in that no party politics are needed or wanted. Just the facts. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Barring any false flags unforeseen circumstances, those who refuse to acknowledge/accept/discuss the actual facts will be ignored and left behind as the rest of us do acknowledge/accept/discuss the facts.

If the final report produces anything less, it will be quite infuriating, and certainly not what we were promised, but it will be good to know as well. And it will be acknowledged/accepted/discussed for exactly what it's worth.

a reply to: network dude

But if you are shown facts, real facts, and you still refuse to accept reality, the idiot stamp can only be placed where it belongs. I'd wait and see what is presented before assuming I was omnipotent.

Not to speak for anyone but myself, but there is good reason for many to doubt the intentions of the critters involved, and what -- if anything -- good will come from this. The skepticism of many is well-founded.

I am cautiously optimistic, because unlike the never-ending top secret IG investigations and Congressional hearings and this or that Committee investigation, this investigation (and that's exactly what an audit is -- an investigation) has an end in sight, and the prospect of a full public report.

But neither am I forgetting that promises can be broken and results can be less than promised. Critters can be threatened, bribed and blackmailed.

originally posted by: network dude
But if you are shown facts, real facts, and you still refuse to accept reality, the idiot stamp can only be placed where it belongs. I'd wait and see what is presented before assuming I was omnipotent.

There won't be any facts one way or the other, it's going to be 100% spin and the comedy epic will continue unabated.

a reply to: Boadicea

If there was evidence of fraud it would have been presented already and it would have been strong enough to NOT get thrown out of a court law.

Obviously you are convinced that fraud has happened, given your obsession with this charade.

The state of Arizona already did an audit and recount....with no evidence of fraud.

This is just a circus to continue the big lie that so many Trump supporters continue to believe, despite no evidence to support it.

This group funded by interests that want or believe Trump won is NOT an unbiased audit. If you do not understand this you are blinded by your confirmation bias or simply too dense to comprehend this reality.

Again, I do NOT have a pre-determined opinion. To date there has been ZERO credible evidence that supports the claim that widespread fraud prevented Trump from winning the 2020 election, in fact most of the isolated cases of fraud in this past election was done in favor of Trump.

a reply to: jrod


Yeah well, pillow man says that trump will be returned to the WH in August 13 on a Friday. What a glorious day that will be.


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