Israeli Settler ,"If I Don't Steal Your House Someone Else Will Steal It"

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Your right over 4000 rockets were targeted at the civilian population and well that is a war crime. Israel at least contacted people and told them to evacuate the area before they attacked. So it would be difficult to say they committed war crimes. You would have to prove that Hamas wasn't there and that would be difficult to prove when they dug tunnels from buildings under the streets. And I'm sure Israel can provide intel justifying their actions even if they had to make it up. Not saying they would but they could and disproving it would be impossible.

I am also concerned that may be the case.

But I don't like to accuse without clear evidence.

Sucks, but not much any of us can do about it for now.

The truth has a way of finding sunlight eventually.

Hamas Palestine: If I don't shoot a missile into your neighborhood someone else will.

So, what's your point?

I love how threads on this issue always descend to the completely stupid, couple of points because once again I think people have a failure to understand truthful context, so instead just make one up:

There's a hell of a difference in the kind of weaponry being used in this conflict, Israel has state of the art scrounged stuff from the US, if Hamas had that, then you can bet that Israeli casualties would be far higher (probably even equal to that of Palestinians). And it's also a lie to think that Israel always gives the tap before a strike, as someone who was tuned to most of the recent spat, that's simply not true.

Secondly, do people think Hamas are firing missiles because they're bored? Are the actual reasons understood? I mean even senile Biden can't even seem to acknowledge the actual reasons as to why this recent conflict kicked off.

In addition, do people get that one of the reasons for the unneeded longevity of this was because that Zionist Pig Netanyahu was desperately trying to claw back some element of popularity from the right-wing voters? Easy to forget, but hopefully he'll still end up prison quite soon

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: dragonridr

Israeli law doesn't apply to occupied territories under international law, the UN warned Israel to stop the eviction immediately prior to the conflict as it breaks the Fourth Geneva Convention and a war crime. The Israeli High courts also ruled the settlements are illegal and must immediately stop around 2019.

UN - Israel Must Stop Jarrah Evictions Immediately


“In addition, the Absentee Property Law and the Legal and Administrative Matters Law are applied in an inherently discriminatory manner, based solely on the nationality or origin of the owner”, OHCHR spokesperson Colville said.

“In practice, the implementation of these laws facilitates the transfer by Israel of its population into occupied East Jerusalem. The transfer of parts of an occupying Power’s civilian population into the territory that it occupies is prohibited under international humanitarian law and may amount to a war crime”, he added.

Forced evictions are a key factor in creating a coercive environment that may lead to forcible transfer, which is prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and is a grave breach of the Convention.”

The UN is not there overseeing the area,so I guess it is not really a war a crime or geneva convention violation.
the West Bank and Gaza are in limbo, with Jordan and Egypt no longer claiming them and the Palestinians never having their own state. SO they are basically EXILES and as such have no real home or state. Cant occupy land that was given up by the owners of said land. It then becomes who can claim it as theirs.

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Very good points, Hamas ALWAYS target civilians and soft targets, they shelter behind Palestinian Civilians, schools, apartment's and even hospitals as they are in fact a genuine terrorist organisation not just a resistance as they may like to style themselves.

But this does not justify all of Israel's uneven response, yes Hamas are the worse morally speaking and it is wrong to blame all of Israel for the actions of hard line element's as most Jewish people do not want conflict and many of them recognize the Palestinians do have Jewish ancestry among them such as the guy's that made that video.

I agree the burden of blame and responsibility does lie with Hamas however Israel (the state and specifically the hard line elements within it) does not have a clean sheet on the issue, they are not as 'Good' as we wished they were, everything in me WANTS to side with Israel, no one could turn a blind eye to the crimes of Hamas but the unfair, inhumane and illegal policy's that Israel has pursued are often sickening and mostly pushed by hard line elements who do not care if the Palestinians have Jewish ancestry or not because they no longer practice there faith and they have learned to hate instead of embrace one another.

I will point out though that there were historic crimes against Jewish people living Legally in Palestine long before the founding of the state of Israel (Even before the British presence) and the Arabs if not so much the Palestinians (though they have had bloody hands as well in the matter) have often persecuted Jews (that had not converted to Islam) much as they suffered in Europe, there were massacres of Jews with a very long history before the founding of the state of Israel often by Arabs in the region so in some sense Israel do have a very good point and I don't believe they could ever truly trust Muslim's given the long history of persecution and after all that ground IS stained with Jewish blood.

Just as an example.
www.camera.org...

If you read these your heart WILL settle on the side of Israel and I agree the Palestinian territory were hamas launched there attacks from is a clear tactical danger to the state of Israel, I do not believe a two state solution will ever be workable and the only solution I can see is to incorporate it into a single state under the control of Israel and to fully disarm the Palestinians (BUT give them rights not make them prisoners) but this would mean an end to settlement and that is something the state of Israel will probably never pursue as they want to consolidate there territory and in my opinion they do have the right of it even if they should properly compensate the people they force of there land.

However I was shocked to see civilian apartments bombed to the ground like that.

The reason they can not get along is not ethnic it is religious and cultural and has sadly now become traditional animosity and lets be fair from a purely historical and also modern point of view Islam is a vicious and cruel religion.

So I kind of regret my anger with Israel and for the life of me I can not see a way for the two sides to come to a lasting and true peace but Israel has to survive, the Jewish people HAVE to have a homeland but it is a tragedy for the Palestinians whom are often as shown earlier actually ethnic Jews if not cultural Jews any longer.

Even if the majority on both sides of that divide do not want to fight the hard liners on both sides are as bad as one another and DO want to fight.

However Israel is in the Right even if they could have gone about it in a far more humane manner on this occasion and yes both sides have committed serious breaches of the Geneva convention, Hamas is a terrorist organization when all is said and done however, they do need to be shut down but preferably without killing civilians along with them, perhaps Israel should invest in more smart drone technology and actively go after the leaders and most vociferous members of Hamas, the problem is that Hamas enjoys huge support among the Palestinian's, it is very much a poisoned well.

Israeli Settler ,"If I Don't Steal Your House Someone Else Will Steal It"

People south of the US border been saying and DOING that for decades.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: dragonridr

Israeli law doesn't apply to occupied territories under international law, the UN warned Israel to stop the eviction immediately prior to the conflict as it breaks the Fourth Geneva Convention and a war crime. The Israeli High courts also ruled the settlements are illegal and must immediately stop around 2019.

UN - Israel Must Stop Jarrah Evictions Immediately


“In addition, the Absentee Property Law and the Legal and Administrative Matters Law are applied in an inherently discriminatory manner, based solely on the nationality or origin of the owner”, OHCHR spokesperson Colville said.

“In practice, the implementation of these laws facilitates the transfer by Israel of its population into occupied East Jerusalem. The transfer of parts of an occupying Power’s civilian population into the territory that it occupies is prohibited under international humanitarian law and may amount to a war crime”, he added.

Forced evictions are a key factor in creating a coercive environment that may lead to forcible transfer, which is prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and is a grave breach of the Convention.”

The UN is not there overseeing the area,so I guess it is not really a war a crime or geneva convention violation.
the West Bank and Gaza are in limbo, with Jordan and Egypt no longer claiming them and the Palestinians never having their own state. SO they are basically EXILES and as such have no real home or state. Cant occupy land that was given up by the owners of said land. It then becomes who can claim it as theirs.

Eh? It's international law. Israel and Hamas are currently on trial for war crimes.

The UN have been overseeing the area for decades and Palestine is recognised as a State by the UN and ICC and as part of the Middle East Peace Process. International law and courts recognise it as Occupied Palestinian Territory since 1967.

UN Security Council Resolution 2334 in 2016 ruled all Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian activity must stop immediately but Israel ignored this and increased this and instead increased the illegal expansion since then according to the quarterly Special Rapporteur for the Middle East Peace Process.

Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms

The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.

UN Security Council Resolution 2334

a reply to: bastion

Un law is falling apart on occupied territories. when the United States announced that it now recognizes Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara. This means recognition of Moroccan annexation directly attacks three cardinal principles of modern international law: self-determination, the prohibition on the use of force, and the prohibition on acquiring territory through the use of force.

In October 1975, the International Court of Justice issued an exhaustive legal opinion on Western Sahara at the request of the U.N. General Assembly. The Court found that neither Morocco nor Mauritania had any legal claim to sovereignty over the territory.

Despite the Court’s decision, Morocco and Mauritania immediately set out to divide the territory between them.

The Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara, with annexation openly proclaimed as its goal, was illegal from its inception. The Israeli case is a bit more complex. A plausible argument can be made that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank in 1967 began as an act of legitimate self-defense.

American recognition of Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara, like the recent U.S. declaration that it no longer considers Israeli settlements to be illegal, thus attacks the bedrock of international law.

Let's just say the ICU is on life support so I don't think Israel cares in the least what international courts say.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Very good points, Hamas ALWAYS target civilians and soft targets, they shelter behind Palestinian Civilians, schools, apartment's and even hospitals as they are in fact a genuine terrorist organisation not just a resistance as they may like to style themselves.

But this does not justify all of Israel's uneven response, yes Hamas are the worse morally speaking and it is wrong to blame all of Israel for the actions of hard line element's as most Jewish people do not want conflict and many of them recognize the Palestinians do have Jewish ancestry among them such as the guy's that made that video.

I agree the burden of blame and responsibility does lie with Hamas however Israel (the state and specifically the hard line elements within it) does not have a clean sheet on the issue, they are not as 'Good' as we wished they were, everything in me WANTS to side with Israel, no one could turn a blind eye to the crimes of Hamas but the unfair, inhumane and illegal policy's that Israel has pursued are often sickening and mostly pushed by hard line elements who do not care if the Palestinians have Jewish ancestry or not because they no longer practice there faith and they have learned to hate instead of embrace one another.

I will point out though that there were historic crimes against Jewish people living Legally in Palestine long before the founding of the state of Israel (Even before the British presence) and the Arabs if not so much the Palestinians (though they have had bloody hands as well in the matter) have often persecuted Jews (that had not converted to Islam) much as they suffered in Europe, there were massacres of Jews with a very long history before the founding of the state of Israel often by Arabs in the region so in some sense Israel do have a very good point and I don't believe they could ever truly trust Muslim's given the long history of persecution and after all that ground IS stained with Jewish blood.

Just as an example.
www.camera.org...

If you read these your heart WILL settle on the side of Israel and I agree the Palestinian territory were hamas launched there attacks from is a clear tactical danger to the state of Israel, I do not believe a two state solution will ever be workable and the only solution I can see is to incorporate it into a single state under the control of Israel and to fully disarm the Palestinians (BUT give them rights not make them prisoners) but this would mean an end to settlement and that is something the state of Israel will probably never pursue as they want to consolidate there territory and in my opinion they do have the right of it even if they should properly compensate the people they force of there land.

However I was shocked to see civilian apartments bombed to the ground like that.

The reason they can not get along is not ethnic it is religious and cultural and has sadly now become traditional animosity and lets be fair from a purely historical and also modern point of view Islam is a vicious and cruel religion.

So I kind of regret my anger with Israel and for the life of me I can not see a way for the two sides to come to a lasting and true peace but Israel has to survive, the Jewish people HAVE to have a homeland but it is a tragedy for the Palestinians whom are often as shown earlier actually ethnic Jews if not cultural Jews any longer.

Even if the majority on both sides of that divide do not want to fight the hard liners on both sides are as bad as one another and DO want to fight.

However Israel is in the Right even if they could have gone about it in a far more humane manner on this occasion and yes both sides have committed serious breaches of the Geneva convention, Hamas is a terrorist organization when all is said and done however, they do need to be shut down but preferably without killing civilians along with them, perhaps Israel should invest in more smart drone technology and actively go after the leaders and most vociferous members of Hamas, the problem is that Hamas enjoys huge support among the Palestinian's, it is very much a poisoned well.

I wholeheartedly agree with nearly every word of that!

If i hadn't been so shocked by nearly every leftist here working so hard to celebrate and defend what Hamas did last week I probably wouldn't have come here to point out the absurdity.

I do not claim to know how to resolve the Israeli/Pali issue. Never have.

I also never claim that Israel is some kind of saint. They aren't.

I also know that Americans, and free people everywhere, are perfectly capable of quickly finding a reasonable solution to the impossible issues of the day. We always have. Eventually.

Who/what do you think has been standing in the way of finding a reasonable solution?

Everyone here knows the answer to that.

Even when throwing out absurdities to avoid admitting it.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: dragonridr

Israeli law doesn't apply to occupied territories under international law, the UN warned Israel to stop the eviction immediately prior to the conflict as it breaks the Fourth Geneva Convention and a war crime. The Israeli High courts also ruled the settlements are illegal and must immediately stop around 2019.

UN - Israel Must Stop Jarrah Evictions Immediately


“In addition, the Absentee Property Law and the Legal and Administrative Matters Law are applied in an inherently discriminatory manner, based solely on the nationality or origin of the owner”, OHCHR spokesperson Colville said.

“In practice, the implementation of these laws facilitates the transfer by Israel of its population into occupied East Jerusalem. The transfer of parts of an occupying Power’s civilian population into the territory that it occupies is prohibited under international humanitarian law and may amount to a war crime”, he added.

Forced evictions are a key factor in creating a coercive environment that may lead to forcible transfer, which is prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and is a grave breach of the Convention.”

The UN is not there overseeing the area,so I guess it is not really a war a crime or geneva convention violation.
the West Bank and Gaza are in limbo, with Jordan and Egypt no longer claiming them and the Palestinians never having their own state. SO they are basically EXILES and as such have no real home or state. Cant occupy land that was given up by the owners of said land. It then becomes who can claim it as theirs.

Eh? It's international law. Israel and Hamas are currently on trial for war crimes.

The UN have been overseeing the area for decades and Palestine is recognised as a State by the UN and ICC and as part of the Middle East Peace Process. International law and courts recognise it as Occupied Palestinian Territory since 1967.

UN Security Council Resolution 2334 in 2016 ruled all Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian activity must stop immediately but Israel ignored this and increased this and instead increased the illegal expansion since then according to the quarterly Special Rapporteur for the Middle East Peace Process.

Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms

The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.

UN Security Council Resolution 2334

That vote was abstained from by the U S and a few others,who told the UN to screw off,because they are wrong. And its a OBSERVER state now,but its not a real country.
The International court is a kangaroo court and is not legally binding.