The planned fall of the USA

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Terpene

But even if America loses its role as "world leader," assuming that we would suddenly fall to the status of a third-world nation is rather silly. And in case you haven't noticed, most of us give two dysentery sh*ts about world reputation.

That is quite an attitude for being a world leader, I like it

a reply to: Terpene

Well, you know...leadership isn't always about giving everyone the warm and fuzzies. Especially when a large portion of said world constantly suckles at our teat while also hating on us.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

You tell me

a reply to: Terpene

Empires rarely fade. In most cases they are absorbed or evolve. This may include a transitional period and a name change though. Most likely if something dire like occurred the us would split into smaller countries due to political and economic split

a reply to: Infinitis

There are two stories running simultaneously, one of an uninterrupted powerful empire and another of raising and falling superpowers.

One of them is a lie!

You want the truth you have to face the lies

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Seems to me it's us first world nations that are sucking at the third world teat.

Considering the stuff we don't want we send there, and stuff that we do want or require we import or take from there nations in spades.

As to the warm and fussy part, well if past history is anything to go by, when we turn up on someone's doorstep, it generally don't bode well for the indigenous population.

a reply to: andy06shake

Andy I have to say, it is rare these day but your patriotism is beautiful, honest, and strong. I often quarrel with patriotism because people tent to get disconnected from the truth, not you!
Bravo!

I know I can come over as smug but belive me it is just my #ed up sense of humor, in this case I am being totally honest!!!

Thanks everyone for the contribution it was a fun discussion, and I learned some insights.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: shooterbrody

I really think it will boil down to how far out you reach to maintain your geopolitical position, there will be no need to attack you, your guns will not help. Except for your own demise.

It is an economic and political setup, where you have no one to blame, it will just fade, until you are nothing more than Italy.
What makes you think any nation is safe from that scripted destiny?

On the bright side many people of Italy are still proud Romans, so I guess you can always daydream of long gone glamour, which might sooth the despair a little...

I get the feeling you're looking forward to our collapse, but short of civil war here, that's unlikely. The United Sates is enormously powerful in every way imaginable. It's the size of a continent, with immense natural resources. It has 330 million people; only China and India have more. Pre-pandemic at least, we were the world's largest producer of both oil and natural gas, and we can become energy independent anytime we choose if it becomes important enough to us. We can grow all the food we need and more. Vast amounts of fresh water and forests. Anything we can't produce here, someone elsewhere will gladly sell us. And you think we'll become more like Italy? Our current GDP is 11 times larger than Italy's.

Our military is the most powerful by far. If we decide to become isolationist, or neutral as we were pre-WWII, we could cut our bloated defense budget by $500 billion and still be in no danger of invasion -- except from desperate peasants sneaking over our southern border or claiming asylum.

We have the finest higher education system in the world; more than a million foreign students -- including 370,000 Chinese -- pay top dollar to attend them.

Our infrastructure is unsurpassed, with more road miles, pipelines and airports than any other nation.

Even if China's GDP, which is about two-thirds the size of ours, surpasses the USA's someday, so what? They have four times more people than we do, and most of them will still be dirt poor by our standards -- and will still be ruled by tyrants. Only China or the EU could have a larger GDP in the forseeable future, but again, so what? Even if our GDP is only the second or third largest, it'll still be huge, and it won't affect our standard of living, which is what we really care about.

China's producing unprecedented numbers of scientists and engineers, yet they steal hundreds of billions of dollars per year from us in IP. You never hear about Americans stealing Chinese IP. I wonder why? Could it be they don't have anything we want?

China is proud of its recent Mars lander safely touching down. We did that almost 45 years ago and have done it six times. More importantly, the United States -- or rather U.S. corporations -- are rapidly developing totally resusable and partly reusable launch vehicles that will drastically lower the cost of access to space. And U.S. firms are leading the way to exploit the seemingly limitless resources of the solar system, which dwarf those of Earth.

The bottom line is, we don't need the world, but the world -- at least the free world -- desperately needs us. I don't know where you live, but if it's not in China or Russia, or maybe half a dozen other crappy nations, you should not be relishing the demise of the United States and rise of China.

a reply to: Scapegrace

The bottom line is, we don't need the world, but the world -- at least the free world -- desperately needs us.

This.
And it pissed them off to no end.
Which is hilarious, because most of us don't care.

a reply to: andy06shake

We'll you're just a ray of sunshine and unicorn sparkles, aren't you?

Yes, many third-world nations (which is an antiquated misnomer at this point) do provide us and other first-world nations with raw materials and other things, but in general, the FWNs are the producers and innovators of the world. Of course there is a global symbiotic relationship between nations, but that doesn't negate the reality that, without the innovations and productions of the U.S. (and other FWNs), there would be a massive lack of many things in the world, to include medications, vaccinations, knowledge and scientific understanding, technology to provide things like more food and safe water, and the list goes on and on.

So, I would argue that, in general, your pessimistic view of the situation is misguided at best, and political in probability.

As for your comment about past history, you'll have to be more specific. If you're talking about our penchant for policing the world, I would agree with you that we tend to create more turmoil and lasting confusion than solutions. But if you're talking about the times when it was actually the European nations who colonized North America and started the ball rolling on the destruction of native populations and slavery (and that we, unfortunately, kept rolling into our first 100 years as a nation), you'll have to accept that such behavior hasn't been a part of our national identity in 150 years, and we've actually been actively fighting against such behavior on the domestic and global scenes for many decades at this point.

If you're going to present this negative argument about the U.S.'s global position and role, you need to be a bit more intellectually honest in lieu of pretending that currently, right now (since we're talking about the nation at present), the U.S. is as you present it. Because, we definitely have some misdoings in the past and currently, but they don't outweigh the good that we do globally--it's just that the good stuff tends to happen behind the scenes, while the misdoings are always on display.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

You forgot lollipops and rainbow kisses. LoL x

1st world nations feed off the 3rd world nations.

Its just how we roll SlapMonkey, crap runs downhill you see.

And its hardly just the USA global position i take issue with.

History would seem to agree with my pessimistic view as to what happens when we land on someone else's doorstep, so there's that.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I wouldn't be concerned about China right now. They have a bright future ahead... Or maybe that is why you are concerned about them. On its way to replace the USA from their world leader position.
Is it envy, is it fear?

I don't envy China one bit. I certainly wouldn't want to live there and I would prefer not to buy anything made there, though that's all but impossible currently.

I do fear China. It's a ruthless, thieving, arrogant nation with designs on the territory of many of its neighbors. It treats its own citizens abominably. Its leaders have made it clear they want to dominate the world, and that should deeply concern everyone in the free world. Personally, I no longer give a damn what happens to our ungrateful "friends" and "allies." Whatever they've done for us pales in comparison to what we've done for them, mainly staving off Russia and China for 70 years at immense cost.

I wouldn't be so sure about China's bright future. The rest of the free world is getting fed up with its thieving and high-handed behavior. China has to sell its stuff, and the majority of the world's consumer market is in First World nations. If we wise up and stop buying their stuff, their economy crashes. Also, China's population is getting older. Not too many decades from now their working age folks are going to have serious problems supporting their old people.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: DAVID64

If there is one country that does not need your help, it’s the one I'm residing in.

We have the second-biggest military force per population, every International bank transfer has to go through this country, we only export high tech, knowledge, Intellectuals, and the popes guard and import most everything.

We are the enemy of the free world and there is nothing you can do about it, because that's our leash you’re on, now shut up and keep doing our bidding

I do admire Switzerland. Perhaps if the USA had only 8.5 million people and 95 perent of its populace was of European ancestry, it too could be as well run and perfect as Switzerland. Texas, where I live, has more than three times your population and is only the second most populous state.

originally posted by: andy06shake
1st world nations feed off the 3rd world nations.

Its just how we roll SlapMonkey, crap runs downhill you see.

So, in that scenario...we're eating crap? I was wondering why it was so warm and mushy...probably didn't smell or taste it because of COVID.

History would seem to agree with my pessimistic view as to what happens when we land on someone else's doorstep, so there's that.

Revisionist history or only cherry-picked history might, but not well-researched history overall, which is why I was careful to say "in general, your pessimistic view of the situation is misguided at best, and political by probability." I mean, a video of my dad spanking me as a child would make him seem mean and like he hits his kids, but the big picture is that he only did that maybe a handful of times when I was a kid, so the overall reality is different.

Don't just focus on the spankings--it's not healthy.

Also, a rainbow kiss should be when two people kiss while frowning.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Yes, crap we are easting indeed, and plastic, never mind a few other things that should not be in there.

History speaks for itself, and we don't play well with others.

As to spankings, nothing wrong with spanking kids on the arse SlapMonkey.

Spare the rod spoil the child rings true 9 times out of 10.

Cant imagine why your father would film such a thing all the same, that's pretty twisted and weird analogy, hence the reason it never happened per-chance?

Also, that's not the only definition of a "rainbow kiss". LoL

Ive not got a pessimistic view of the world SlapMonkey, just a realistic view, canny polish a turd, not even in America.

Focus on what ever you wish all the same, after all it takes all sorts to make this world spin. x

Wont change the fact that 3rd world nations are 1st world nations breakfast lunch and dinner, and you can take that to the world bank.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Just had a quick scan at your post. A few topics i happened to notice.

Our infrastructure is unsurpassed, with more road miles, pipelines and airports than any other nation

US Infrastructure is ranked 13th. Hardly unsurpassed is it ?

www.washingtonpost.com...

China is proud of its recent Mars lander safely touching down. We did that almost 45 years ago and have done it six times.

The former Soviet Union was the first to land on Mars. And that was 50 years ago. Just adding a historical perspective.

After a decade of misfires and failed flyby missions, the U.S.S.R. made 14 seconds of history in 1971, when its Mars 3 lander transmitted radio signals and a fuzzy image -- or signal -- from the surface of Mars before cutting out and going silent forever. Then, almost without a trace, humankind's first controlled landing on the red planet and its lone image disappeared for decades after the malfunction amid one of the fiercest Martian dust storms that astronomers had ever witnessed. The image finally resurfaced in the 1980s

www.rferl.org...

We have the finest higher education system in the world;

The US is actually rated at Number 2, behind The UK.

ceoworld.biz...

The bottom line is, we don't need the world, but the world -- at least the free world -- desperately needs us.

The US places it's Military around the world. The US will not and does not want to remove them. So yes, The US needs to world for accomodation purposes.

Anyway, don't let your own propoganda fool you. The real world is outside of The US.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Cant imagine why your father would film such a thing all the same, that's pretty twisted and weird analogy, hence the reason it never happened per-chance?

Never said that it would be my dad recording it, and if all that you got out of that analogy is that it's twisted and weird, I understand why we're at an impasse.

Best regards.

Also...yes, I know the definition of rainbow kiss you're talking about...I was trying to make it better lol

a reply to: SlapMonkey

When you film something its generally recorded on a medium, at least back then.

What would you wish me to take from such?

Levity aside, the big picture is all about perspective, always has been always will be, and from the perspective of indigenous populations our arrival on there shores seldom bodes well, which is historic fact.

I'm glad you knew that definition, nobody should have to google such. LoL

No impasse on my part mate just simple banter and dialogue.

Best regards to you also.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Scapegrace

Just had a quick scan at your post. A few topics i happened to notice.

Our infrastructure is unsurpassed, with more road miles, pipelines and airports than any other nation

US Infrastructure is ranked 13th. Hardly unsurpassed is it ?

www.washingtonpost.com...

The Wapo is always eager to put down the USA. But everything I stated is correct. America has more miles of roadway than any other nation or political/economic union, including the EU, China and India, with their vastly larger populations. As far as pipeline systems go, there's no contest; second-place Canada has less than a fourth as many miles. We have about one-third of all airports in the world. We also have either the most or second-most heliports, with Russia possibly having slightly more. I forgot to mention our rail network, which is larger than second-place China by about 56 percent. Maybe it's not the best according to the Wapo's strict standards, but it's certainly awesome.

China is proud of its recent Mars lander safely touching down. We did that almost 45 years ago and have done it six times.

The former Soviet Union was the first to land on Mars. And that was 50 years ago. Just adding a historical perspective.

After a decade of misfires and failed flyby missions, the U.S.S.R. made 14 seconds of history in 1971, when its Mars 3 lander transmitted radio signals and a fuzzy image -- or signal -- from the surface of Mars before cutting out and going silent forever. Then, almost without a trace, humankind's first controlled landing on the red planet and its lone image disappeared for decades after the malfunction amid one of the fiercest Martian dust storms that astronomers had ever witnessed. The image finally resurfaced in the 1980s

www.rferl.org...
Yes, the Soviets made the first soft landing and broadcast unintelligible data from the surface for 20 seconds at most. Until China made its successful landing, that was the only data transmitted from the Martian surface by any lander other than those from the United States. More than a year ago, I added up the total number of days U.S. landers and rovers have operated on Mars and came up with 14,451 Earth days. I also made a mistake in a previous post, saying the USA had made only six successful landings. It's actually nine.

And the USA is still the only nation to have orbited Saturn, although an ESA probe piggybacked on the Cassini orbiter and made a soft landing on Titan. No other nation has made flybys of Uranus, Neptune or Pluto.

We have the finest higher education system in the world;

The US is actually rated at Number 2, behind The UK.

ceoworld.biz...
OK, I won't dispute that the UK may have the largest number of top tier universities per capita, but second best for a nation with 330 million souls isn't bad. We have more than 4,000 unversities and colleges (not including numerous branch campuses) and more than 20 million students --- about 6 percent of our population. And I doubt any nation has anything like our community college system, with more than 1,400 schools (not including many branch campuses). Most community colleges are open enrollment, meaning it doesn't matter what your academic status is, as long as you have a high school diploma or GED and a minimum reading level.

The bottom line is, we don't need the world, but the world -- at least the free world -- desperately needs us.

The US places it's Military around the world. The US will not and does not want to remove them. So yes, The US needs to world for accomodation purposes.

Anyway, don't let your own propoganda fool you. The real world is outside of The US.

Whether we want to remove them or not, U.S. armed forces have successfully deterred Russia and China for 70 years. A lot of nations would not be free or independent if not for our military. The United States has defense treaties with about one-fourth of all nations. That means we're pledged to go to their defense, which would mean war with Russia or China if they invade any of those nations. Which could lead to our destruction by nuclear weapons. I suspect the vast majority of nations where our forces are based overseas do not want them to leave, but we will leave if a host nation asks us to. The United States' defense umbrella has allowed many nations, including NATO members and all the First World nations in the Far East, to spend far less on defense for the past 70 years.

a reply to: Scapegrace

That is not some humanitarian crap you do by having your forces all over the globe, it is one of the biggest economy, in most parts of the world and yours especially.
you know these fat wealthy consciousless bosses that don't care about a human life?
they get rich with the military too and as any economy they lobby the crap out of any government.
it works the same every where, to think Switzerland or USA is any different is delusional...