Well Some Asshole Just Kicked My Dog

Kudos to you for keeping your cool.

I imagine that they have had an issue with their dog being attacked by an off leash dog at some point, either real or imagined. The fact that he didn't get all agro and defensive tells me it was probably reactionary and not a planned assault on your pup. The two of you probably have more in common than you realize, you both prioritize taking care of you dogs.

We had issues with our dog at leash free parks, he's big and extremely passive so he gets a lot attention from aggressive dogs. So we stopped taking him to leash free parks, which is what these people should have done if they have had issues with unleashed dogs.


Dogs are the best

Keep your dog on a leash and he is provided with your protection. Too many times I’ve had problems with others’ dogs off the leash. I’m sorry though that the guy was a douche in this instance.

a reply to: dug88

Not everyone is a fan of dogs. Keep it on a leash if you don't like what happened to it.

a reply to: Lysergic

What did your ex do to you?

originally posted by: dug88
a reply to: rickymouse

Nope...not where i was..I had every right to have my dog off leash there. Plenty of signs around informing people they were entering an offleash area.

Had my dog off leash down there countless times around plenty of other people and other dogs. No issues until today.

I didn't realize that they had off leash areas in cities. There are no such areas here in our towns. Around here, all dogs need to be on leashes unless they are on your own property and have a shock collar and buried cable to keep them on your property. Or, if your yard is fenced in of course. The cops do not usually bother people walking their dog without a leash unless someone complains and most complaints come from people who almost hit the dogs or if the dog is a pit bull or some breed that people are afraid of. Also if the dog growls at someone.

We have not had a dog for over twenty years now, and ours was an alaskan mix, part sleigh dog. It could get off it's chain and was friendly as hell, down the road someone called the cops and they came out and the cop knew his name and he jumped in the front seat of the cop car and he brought him down to the Humane Society....again...they loved Alex, he was always loose there and I was a builder, I never had to pay a fine, I helped them do some projects and I would swear that when they needed some help figuring out what to do they would pick up my dog so I would come down. Never a ticket though. The cop told the lady that Alex liked to get eye to eye with people so would stand up and put his arms on their shoulders. He usually was picked up within ten miles of our house, he peed on every mailbox when he went for a walk.

He disappeared one day and we thought he was dead, there was a dead dog on the highway three miles away. But five years later I saw him with some kids, He was old and they said he showed up at their house and never left, they played with him all the time. I recognized him and he automatically stood up and put his paws on my chest and looked into my eyes, I knew it was him and questioning the kids at the ice cream stand they said he showed up about the time he disappeared. I guess dogs have the right to choose their family, he was chained up here way too much, he was an outdoor dog. He would get too anxious in the house and knock everything over. They said he was hyper for months and had to stay in their garage and they trained alex to be a house dog. The wife and I worked and the daughter was always busy with our friends and gone. I am glad that Alex found a good family. A place where he had five kids to play with out in the country. He pulled them around on toboggans which we never mastered, he was too wild, he may have been a sleigh dog but nobody had ever trained him, the daughter got dumped off the sleigh about five times before we said no more.

I told them about him talking for over a half hour and explained he was always twisting off his chain or out of his leash and bumming all over and looking for a place he felt at home. I mentioned I was glad he found what he was looking for and the kids were all happy. He was part of their family. He found where he belonged. After that I questioned as to Why we believe that we have the right to determine an animals life? We did not own Alex, he just stayed with us for a while and chose who he wanted to live with...a family at least six miles away by road, and he never walked in the woods much, there were no mailbox posts to pee on in the woods.

a reply to: JinMI

You made sense of that post?

is he like a broken troll bot everyone knows about, or something?

a reply to: dug88

if there is a leash law in your are then you are in the wrong 100%. you put your dog in danger and it getting kicked is your fault.

you don't get to ignore the rules you don't like. if your dog ran up on me i'd kick the # out of it too.

i see people in my city constantly thinking the lease law doesn't apply to them, it is selfish and disrespectful... your dog took the punishment you should have gotten... a kick in the face.

a reply to: dug88

I've got my dog off leash

Maybe leash your dog.

Or don't let your dog get near a person's foot. Hence leash.

Congratulations on keeping your cool. Don't think I could have. And for those who think Pitties are bad, I've known and been introduced to a lot of Pit Bulls in my life. The only ones I've ever met who were marginally mean, were the ones that were rescued from owners who treated them horribly, or owners who got them to take to dogfights. And THOSE dogs weren't that mean. They just wanted someone to love them, and not constantly torture or hurt them.

Human beings suck...

originally posted by: CosmicUmbra
a reply to: dug88

Not everyone is a fan of dogs. Keep it on a leash if you don't like what happened to it.

I have never liked dogs and avoid them. That said I would NEVER kick an animal unless I was in fear of attack.

I do find it very rude when an owner doesn’t keep their dog on a leash. In my opinion it is inconsiderate.

Dugg88, flag for a good thread and people gave some honest replies. I live in Texas and I don't own a dog now but I have in the past. IMHO animals are great so long as they're somebody else's animals so live and let live. No one should ever be cruel to animals nor should the animals be aggressive or attack people who keep a short distance between them and their owners.

I'm a licensed CCH and my carry gun will take of biting dogs. Notice I didn't say barking dogs but dogs off leash, strays or running in packs. You were wrong to have your dog off leash and most jurisdictions have laws against that but any idiot who kicks a dog who is acting friendly needs to see a judge and ante up some money to the court for animal control.

When I was younger one dog did attempt to bite me on the way home from a baseball game and a bat took care of that. It's owner was highly upset but his neighbor saw what happened and told him to back off or he would call the cops. Another time we ran into a rabid coyote but a rifle dispatched it and we let CDWL know where it was.

Like I said live and let live unless circumstances dictate otherwise. My best,

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the apparent lack of comprehension people have by commenting that OP should leash his dog despite OP saying multiple times that the area was an off leash area?

a reply to: dug88

A few years ago where I live here an incident happened.....

I live in a small town in the mountains and it is a recreation spot for city people (Phoenix)

This retired school teacher from Phoenix was up here hiking in the forest and when he came out at the trail head where his car was another guy was walking dogs on the trail also from the humane society where he volunteered. He would pick up 3-4 dogs (ones that were totally mellow animals) and exercise them and then return them. He was well known in the community and did a lot of volunteer work and was liked by everyone.

The ex-teacher came out the trailhead and these 3 dogs got near him non threatening in any way
(as per witnesses statements) and he pulled a pistol (.40 caliber) and shot at the dogs and the guy ran up yelling for him not to shoot them and the ex-teacher shot the "defensively" because the guy attacked him he claimed. The shot went through the guys right hand and into his face. The guy had his hands up like "don't shoot" in a submissive stance.

The shooter got 2nd degree murder.

So ya gotta be careful who you confront these days.

a reply to: dug88

He's well behaved, never had a problem with people or other dogs.

There's your problem right there. To be blunt, and please don't get offended, but .. bad dog handling.

You should never just trust that a dog is 'well-behaved'. Dog is never 'well-behaved'. Dog follows instincts, and can change from second to second, any dog.

YOU have to be the pack leader, the dog should behave every second because you are there to 'tell it' to behave well that particular second. The dog should ALWAYS get a correction when it misbehaves, and it will eventually learn to 'behave well', but you still have to be vigilant, because if you change, the dog will change. The dog can only be as good as its handler. It's not the dog, it's the human behind the dog.

The human should never BE behind the dog, as the dog should only be on the side or behind the human. You can't be a pack leader if you're behind the dog.

Saying your dog just somehow magically is 'well-behaved', is just false, it's an illusion. Even if you have never had a problem, it's still the wrong thinking to even SAY you have never 'had a problem'. Do you see it?

You should say 'you never ALLOWED your dog to misbehave'. You always corrected your dog. The problems don't just 'appear', don't be in the PASSIVE role. You have to be an ACTIVE leader and INTERCEPT every bud of a problem, so it never becomes a problem. Ever heard of 'nip it in the bud'?

You probably haven't NOTICED how your dog has caused problems by staring. You have probably never noticed how your dog has warned with silence, just because there hasn't been a BITE. There have been 'problems', you just have been blind to them, because you only see the OUTCOME of the problem, not the problem itself.

The problem is a dog with its tail up, staring at another dog.

The problem is a silent stare. The problem is a certain body posture and mouth position. The problem is dog's ears up and forward.

You have probably had PLENTY of problems, but ignored them or not seen them because the outcome of those problems has been minuscule or silent, instead of loud and biting.

Dogs can have plenty of problems in silence, please watch Dog Whisperer or Cesar 911 to open a whole new world of Dog Psychology, that your sentences reveal you know absolutely nothing about, NO OFFENCE, I am only trying to help, but someone has to say things as they are for people to wake up.

I will give you an interesting anecdote for perspective.

There I was, walking along in a beautiful autumn morning, near a field. Visibility was good, you could see very far, and I saw that from far away, there was a weird 'pack' coming towards me. Was it a good dog handler with five dogs following happily and walking harmoniously and not making any noise?

You can probably guess, but no, it was not. It was a fat woman with five dogs pulling every which way, making a lot of squeaky sounds and noise. Soon I noticed the pack leader. It was not the woman, it was a little, black dog with big ears.

The dog spotted me from far away. Its behaviour changed. I was of course doing my best 'Cesar Millan imitation', when it comes to 'energy' and 'body language', that he often talks about. I was assertive, but calm. I was helding my head up high, smiling in a relaxed but also 'no one is going to mess with me' kind of a way. I walked with my shoulders straight, confidently towards them.

The pack leader became more nervous the closer they got. The handler had her hands full, and didn't seem to notice AT ALL what the dogs were doing. This pack leader was observing me, moving to another place, observing me, its ears up and a little nervous. It was used to being able to dominate people with its aggression and raging behaviour, I surmised. It wasn't going to work with me. I was not going to let this dog walk over me AT ALL. I was going to put up a fight - not a physical one, of course, just a mental resistance. I was NOT going to try to pet it, talk to it, or give it eye contact, except when I was observing it while it was observing me.

From my perspective, this is what I saw happen. This dominant pack leader little dog that was used to being the 'top dog' (quite literally, I suppose), saw me, instinctively realized, it can't fight me. It isn't as strong as I am. And I was determined to be strong, no little dog's going to push me around. I didn't wish the dog any harm, I just wasn't going to let it dominate or intimidate me with anything it throws at me, whether barks or even trying to bite (I had a bag to protect myself physically from that anyway - not to hit the dog, just to block it from being able to reach my body).

It was funny-looking, as it switched positions constantly - it was on its hindlegs at one second, the other, it was on the other side of the handler, then it went back to the other side, constantly changing its position and observing, like some kind of squirrel that doesn't know quite what to do.

Dogs have four modes, Fight, Flight, Avoidance and Submission. CM has changed his terminology to 'Surrender', because it probably sounds better to americans, but I like the more 'scientific' 'submission', as it's more accurate, perhaps.

In any case, this dog had JUST been in 'Fight' mode, and initially, it was going to fight me. But then it observed me, I assume it sensed my energy being relatively strong, it knew it couldn't fight energy that strong, so the 100% predictable happened.

I don't remember how the conversation was initiated, the woman kind of expressed frustration about her struggle with the dogs, and I told her, 'well, it's because you don't know how'. I didn't think she would get offended by this, but of course she did. I should stop having high hopes when it comes to 'people' of this world.

I was trying to explain the basics of dog psychology to her, and how this little one is the pack leader and instigator, so if we can get him calm, the rest of the pack will calm down. I was going to advice her on to how properly lead and walk with dogs, so every walker, including the human, will be happy and it'll be fun, instead of a struggle where the dogs do whatever they want.

I thought she was holding the dogs well enough, but I was wrong. The little pack leader suddenly switched to 'Flight' mode, because he knew now 100% surely, he couldn't fight me. Flight mode meant something between Batmobile and K.I.T.T. in their heyday, when someone pressed TURBO BOOST. This little thing transformed from a dog to a speeding rocket in an instant, and soon only a tiny black dot could be seen far away on the road. The speed and ferocity of its escape surprised me.

This woman wasn't listening, she was now trying to accomplish two goals - control a panicking 'flight mode' dog by sound (impossible, of course, as I COULD have told her, screaming its name OVER AND OVER, as if that's gonna do anything - it didn't), and crush MY spirit for even DARING to suggest that someone that has had all kinds of dogs for 26 years wouldn't know how to walk a pack of dogs (she didn't). All I did was say facts, and yet she got emotional and angry. I don't get people.. if someone advices me on something I am doing wrong, I would be grateful.

This was one of those situations, where afterwards, you think the BEST arguments for her nonsense, but of course by then, the situation is long over. The dog was so far gone so quickly, it was a little funny.

a reply to: Shoujikina

The woman started jogging after the little dog, screaming his name constantly, while the other dogs kept trying to pull every which way, but with the instigator gone, didn't seem nearly as troublesome or 'coordinated' in their chaos.

Soon neither the woman nor the dogs could be seen, but I felt a little peeved. I did yell after her, 'I was only trying to help, but I am not going to force my help upon you', etc. It didn't feel very satisfying. I wonder if I could've handled the situation differently.

The smack to my face was, of course, that the woman blamed ME. It's like I put some kind of spell to the dog or distracted her or or.. the dog ran because "YOU SCARED MY LITTLE SMOOPY!!"

Groan.

I didn't even go near the dog, and I had stopped long before they even reached me. I didn't want to approach the dog, I wanted it to come towards me - another sign of a pack leader. All learned from TV, too, I never had my own dog.

Yet this woman had the gall to accuse ME of 'doing something' or 'scaring the dog', when if she had LISTENED TO ME, I could've helped her learn how dog psychology works, and she could've learned how to see what happens in situations like that, and rectify the situation before it becomes a situation. But typically, she didn't see the warning signs, she didn't feel the energy, she didn't know what was going on, she didn't know the four modes of a dog, so she didn't even anticipate the dog running away.

I didn't know whether to curse her for being an unreasonable female dog herself (in more meanings than one), or thank the Universe for this opporunity to pay my karmic debts and to learn control of my emotions and all that. What a mess that was.

The point of this anecdote is, when you don't know dog psychology, but you think your dogs are 'well behaved' and 'never caused problems before', you're not living in reality. You are basically possibly causing your dog a great distress by forcing it in the pack leader role (letting it walk in the front, for example, letting it go through doorways first, etc. etc.), not noticing its tail being up and not notice the silent stares and what the dog is doing (like that little dog 'measuring me' and observing me intently).

The woman never knew what happened, I saw everything that happened. It would never have happened to me.

So by learning dog psychology, you will be in control, and instead of 'estimating' whether your dog is 'well-behaved' or assessing things like 'it hasn't caused problems before', you will 100% know how your dog will behave in every situation, because you CREATE that behaviour. You will always know whether your dog will BE ALLOWED to cause problems or not, because you will be in control of that.

You will play with your dog, like before, but the difference is, YOU initiate the play, YOU end the play. You reward the dog, but you also give affection when the dog is in calm and submissive mode, not when it's active-alert-dominant or even aggressive. Never pet a dog that's in distress of any kind. That only NURTURES the state of mind it is in.

So you nurture the calm, submissive state of mind, and your dog will love you for it. People usually only give affection, affection, affection, when dogs need exercize, discipline, affection. People TALK to dogs and expect them to understand, because people are eyes, ears, nose (if that). Dogs are nose, eyes, ears.

It's best to influence a dog's nose first, it's its strongest sense. Then eyes, and only then ears - but it's best to control dog with silence. Audio and sounds only excite a dog, but that's where 'dog training' and 'dog psychology' differ; training is all based on sounds and excitement. It doesn't teach how to make a dog calm and a follower instead of pack leader.

You need to be calm at all times, as dogs don't listen to hectic, nervous, fearful, angry, etc. energy. Calm and assertive gets you what you want. Many people are assertive, but not calm. Or they have tension on the leash and wonder why it didn't work. I hope you get something out of this and can avoid future confrontations, and maybe even learn something about your carnivore pet that you buy muscles of other animals that aren't allowed to life so your carnivore pet can survive.

a reply to: Shoujikina

lol you never had a dog but you watched Cesar Milan and despite zero experience that makes you an expert in dog psychology?
Sure. Sure sure sure.

was helding my head up high, smiling

so you were tense and showing them your teeth? That could be interpreted as aggressive. Dogs show their teeth as a warning and not to be friendly (unless of course trained behaviour)

dominant pack leader little dog that was used to being the 'top dog'

He was insecure because you looked him deep in the eyes probably and flashing your teeths.
Little dogs as pack leader doesn't happen lacking physical strength, they might get some leeway in the pack because they're no threat to anyone but they got no chance in a fight, you don't win fights you're no pack leader.
Which is exactly where the whole CM stuff falls flat on its face, dogs are not that stupid they can see humans are not dogs, otherwise what do you think what owner and puppy do? Battle it out and if little Rexy wins he opens cans for his human?
That's just stupid.

Dogs have four modes, Fight, Flight, Avoidance and Submission

No. Insecure, playmode/goofy, cuddly, hungry, needy, satisfied, attentive, bored, excited...

I mean if you never had a dog you're not in any position to give advice to anybody.
But since you like advice and for your future endeavours, don't tense up and don't flash your teeth if approaching strange dogs.