Believers and non-believers...

I just wanted to say something that 'might help' when it comes to UFO's and that kind of thing.
I mean ALL of the below in a respectful way... (I am sorry that I take way too long to say what I want to say, I am 'just that way')

Years ago, back in 2008 or so I came here as a lurker and read about UFO's and all of those things in-between, but, I finally joined just a few years ago, but we all read the same stuff when it came to UFO's, MOST of us believed. I even posted a 'drawing' (along with a fairly descriptive story) that I made to show what I saw, and I KNOW that I saw something really odd, I can't say where it was from, but it was not an ordinary event, not in any way, shape or form.

After we have been here a while, and on other forums reading and seeing things about the subject of UFO's, a lot of us have just seen it come to a place where there really wasn't much proof, if any, so that made us see stuff maybe a little differently than people see it now. That just means that, we may have 'been there, done that'. I know that some people are rude and say things to people that 'still believe', or they believe differently than we do, and that really isn't helpful to the newbies or the people that want to believe no matter what. (I'm not insulting anyone here)

So, while some come here and they get frustrated because they came here for the same reason that I did, UFO's and all of that stuff, the only difference is, they might not have seen what we, the people that have "been there, done that" have seen or read a million times before.
Another reason or difference is that there had been a boom in REALLY GOOD CGI stuff that is so realistic that it's hard to not see it and think that we are being visited by aliens, and maybe we are, but the point is, maybe we're not. Seeing things as we do now doesn't mean that there is proof, CGI has screwed our minds up so bad that we can't tell what is real anymore. There are YouTube channels (or, were) that were not being very helpful when they 'HAVE 100% PROOF!" that aliens are here!

So, 99.9 times out of a 100 we are seeing a CGI video or image that more than likely they made or found.
Seeing a tiny dot in the sky way off in the distance and expecting those of us that have seen that a million times will not make a believer out of any of us.

Through time, those of us that 'used to believe' have become a little more hardened to what we see and hear others say, or do, and show as 'proof'.
Some of us, not all, have been rude to the newer people, or the people that CHOOSE to still believe, so after we've seen the "100% PROOF" a million times, it's hard to understand why the new people still want to believe, because we, the all knowing, think that we know better. We may not, but at least try to understand that we have been there and done that so many times that it is REALLY hard to just sit back and agree with a person that believes with their heart and soul just because there is a convincing looking video or picture.

Believe me, IF we 'the hardened' could go back and be what the believers want to believe, we would! I want to believe, but there is no definitive proof, and there has been way too many instances that what we believed was not true at all. We, like a lot of others, have been tricked way too many times it's unreal.

Yes, I know, they are now coming out and saying that the U.S. Navy (among others) are saying that they have seen this, or that (tic-tacs) and all of that, that is still the same old song and dance to us that have, "been there, done that" over and over again. (A lot here don't even trust our own governments to believe them if they did say there were aliens on Earth)

I really wish that those of us that don't believe, or find it really hard to believe, would let those that want to believe, believe. If we do have a difference of an opinion, we should try and act respectable with a helpful or at least a polite answer or reply, there is no need for any of us to be rude.

So, I want to believe, but I really don't anymore, it's not my first rodeo. If it's yours, who am I to say what you should believe? I may step in and try and persuade you some to 'see' what the majority of people NOW believe, but only to help out if I can. Letting another believe when it can be very misleading to others is not a good thing either.

We ALL need to step back and try to understand what we say, I have my opinion, you have yours, we should let opinions be told for what they are. So, please try and understand that those of us that might not believe what you do are not terrible people, (or might not be) but it's an old, really tired story to most of us.
Hopefully, the ones that believe won't be treated in a rude way anymore. I'll believe that when I see it though. People will still be people...

a reply to: recrisp

I've never seen a UFO, Bigfoot, a ghost, the lock Ness monster or a unicorn.
I also don't claim to believe or disbelieve.

Countless hours have been spent in the back yard with many telescopes over the years and I've seen many things like satellites.
Not every light in the sky is a ufo.

That being said it's hard to ignore all of the pilots that claim sightings and woodsmen that claim to have seen Bigfoot.

The thing to always keep in mind is that no matter how many hundreds/thousands of videos you've seen that were proven to be fakes, CGI, misidentifications, etc..., that still cannot prove that they don't exist.


There always remains the possibility of existence.

I always explain my position like a mixture of Mulder and Scully. I want to believe, but I'm also a sceptic.

I've seen my fair share of weird things in person, but I know that the mind is a funny thing and unfortunately I've never been able to capture any evidence.

So, I do think it's possible that there are supernatural phenomena occurring, but with my knowledge of technology such as photography, "ghost hunting" equipment, CGI and such I know how a lot of evidence can be faked.

And while it's cool how far artists have come in displaying their talents it's unfortunate that they don't out big fat disclaimers in front of the videos to say it's fake. It's even more unfortunate when those artists do out disclaimers on their videos, but then people cut the disclaimers out and try to pass them off as real.

UFOs and such are pretty similar to magic, in that magic works best when the observer is ignorant of what's really going on.

Anything can be a UFO/USO when a person doesn't know what they are looking at.

Anything can be paranormal activity when ghost hunting equipment is literally half-assed receivers, or when a certain piece of equipment is purposefully used for it's characteristics of producing false-positives. I.e Xbox Kinect cameras.

Photography can also play tricks on the mind, because of the way it compresses the 3D into 2D. Shadows, lights, double exposures, slow shutter speeds, you name it. There's a reason photography can be an artform.

Digital photography can be even more guilty especially with lower quality cameras with their photo sensors, compression rates, crappy autofocus, improper settings creating more noise or light streaks.

a reply to: Bluntone22
That's true too. I do feel a LITTLE differently about MY (U.S.) government though, like I said, I don't trust them like I used to, so really, I have belief problems when they say stuff.
The U.S. Navy, Air Force, NASA, and all of those guys have reasons to do and say stuff that might not be true, so when they say they have video that shows us stuff that they didn't 'used to' let us see, well, let's just say I am a little more suspicious than I used to be.

Like, supposedly, Dr. Carol Rosin is well known for saying that Dr.Wernher Von Braun told her some stuff that would happen in the somewhat near future. Like, false flags stuff, involving UFO's, etc. I won't say that is it true, but it is very close.
(I am not so sure that she's not a real nutcase either)

So, what I mean by that is that the government will lie to us, and I KNOW you know that, 'cause I know you.

a reply to: BrokenCircles

100% true, and I say that in a sense, all I am saying is that let's play nice and and not call others crazy. etc.

a reply to: recrisp

I totally respect your viewpoint. I myself, believe, but then again I've had direct experience. I don't blame others for not believing. 99% of the posts here are blurry pics, 2nd hand accounts, and CGI charlatan tin-foil trash.

My main pet-peeve is not that ppl don't believe. It's that most ppl don't seem the least bit curious. Makes me feel like I'm not human or something.

I've pondered this before, and I've wondered exactly what it would take in order for a video to make me a true believer, and I don't think it's actually possible.

No video or picture could ever make me into a 100% believer.

To fully believe, not only would I have to see it with my own eyes, but it would have to be up close and personal.






BUT I would never say, "I don't believe".

a reply to: AutomateThis1

That's all too true too...
The thing is, with the invention of really good cameras and lenses that are available to us now, we could take an EXCELLENT photograph and it can still be called a hoax because there are so many people out there that can create such realistic 'whatever' it's almost a lost cause to even try and debunk it, because, 'there it is' right in front of you in such a realistic image.

I'm a photographer, I know how all of that works, and I have seen stuff, (years ago), back then I was a completely different person than I am now, but it's because I am so much smarter, it's just that after seeing so many hoaxes that were supposed to be real, well, I learned from being around it so much. I ain't that smart.

The T.V. shows and stations such as The History Channel have ruined it all for us all. They are the tabloids of the airwaves. Not just them, but YouTube, and all of the other places that tout crap as real.
I remember just a few years ago that The History Channel had REAL mermaids! They acted like it was a real documentary, I only watched it because I 'had to see' what it was that they were claiming was real. It was such a joke, but as far as I know they have never said that it was fake, or 'just a movie'. Their numbers were falling about that time so they were where the money was, fooling those that don't know.

a reply to: recrisp

Only by what we know can we become crazy. Because what
we don't know is always closer to reality.

a reply to: NightVision

Now see, that is a really good point.
I know there are a LOT of people out there that say they have been abducted, or something along those lines, but, if what they say is true, the ones that lied about it SO MANY TIMES have ruined that for you and the others.
On ATS I have read way too many people that say that their story is true, but they don't have a very good track record, so it's hard to read between the lines and know who's telling the truth.

People 'were' curious, but that kind of died out with the ones that faked their stories, or showed their fake videos and pictures. Really, one can't be blamed for feeling that way after what has happened in the last few years.

I don't know your story, but I bet that you have it on ATS somewhere, if not, post it. I have my own story, I don't know if mine is still in my History here or not, it's been a while. Nobody really cared about it then, so probably not now.
(Mine is just a few 'little' things, not abduction or aliens, just 'stuff' I saw at night in the skies)

Thanks for understanding what I meant though, nobody got verbally attacked... heheh

originally posted by: BrokenCircles

No video or picture could ever make me into a 100% believer.
BUT I would never say, "I don't believe".

Truer words were never spoken!
I also believe that.
Thank you!

a reply to: Randyvine
I don't know, I am crazy just naturally.
That's a good saying though, I like it.

originally posted by: recrisp

I remember just a few years ago that The History Channel had REAL mermaids! They acted like it was a real documentary, I only watched it because I 'had to see' what it was that they were claiming was real. It was such a joke, but as far as I know they have never said that it was fake, or 'just a movie'.

I had forgotten about that, but I am just as confused about it now as I was when it aired. Everything about it was/is ridiculous.



Thinking about it now, it's pretty dam funny, but I still hope someone got fired for that.

a reply to: BrokenCircles
I really am 100% on-board with you about someone needs to be fired. heheh

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: recrisp

That being said it's hard to ignore all of the pilots that claim sightings and woodsmen that claim to have seen Bigfoot.

Consideration of that was one thing that put me more in the camp of belief.

I can accept there are a lot of mistaken sightings, hallucinations caused by whatever, and idiots making up stories.

But ALL of the witnesses? To include every last one that has had some training in competent observation -- pilots, policemen, military personnel ... no, that is REALLY hard to believe.

And considering that, the thought that next occurred was, "and what if even only one of the sightings by a competent observer was something truly anomalous/paranormal/inter-dimensional etc.?"

Well, if even only ONE of those reports was substantially accurate ... there IS a phenomenon, and it deserves a more earnest public investigation than what has been done to date.

Cheers

a reply to: recrisp

I've done the same thing. When I was 9 years old, my mom and I were coming back from getting a bale of hay and she watched a UFO hover silently over the tree line and follow us all the way to our house, then I saw it right above the trees and across the street when I got out. The entire feeling was surreal, like a dream and where crickets should have been chirping loudly, there were no chirping sounds, no dogs barking in the distance, just silence and an almost floating feeling. Something I'll never forget, that's for damn sure. It happened in 1988 on the outskirts of a small farm town.

a reply to: recrisp

there is life out there but i don't believe we have been visited yet. there is simply no proof. just stories and blurry pics and videos.
besides, it's hard to find us, we don't make much noise.
but it is also possible that a developed civilization knows about us but does not contact us because we are a aggressive species.

Well, if even only ONE of those reports was substantially accurate ... there IS a phenomenon, and it deserves a more earnest public investigation than what has been done to date.

I know you weren't replying to me, but, I think that is the problem, we don't know who to believe.
Who can say what is "substantially accurate", and what is not? Who will we believe if it did happen the way someone says it did?
There is definitely phenomenon that is out there, but we, as humans really ain't as smart as we think we are, it could be stuff that is so above our noggins that we just haven't realized what it is yet.
I don't necessarily mean UFO's or any of that, I mean, I have witnessed the Marfa lights, is is some SCARY stuff when you are all alone at night and nobody else is there. I don't have a clue what that is, nobody yet has definitely proof of what it is, they have a lot of theories, not not substantial proof.

When I say I saw it, I saw 'many' multi-colored dancing lights (meaning more than one color of light, not one light that was multi-colored) that went from one side of the desert to the other, from East to West, and from West to East, over and over again. Supposedly the Native Americans told of it through stories way before we were here.
That is a definitely phenomenon right there, with not one definitive answer.
They don't call 'em the "Ghost Lights" for nuthin'! heheh

I did try videoing it and photographing it, but this was in 1986 and things were just not up to par, including me.

a reply to: LSU2018
I bet that we all have our stories similar to that, and I don't doubt that you saw it either.
In my entire life I have seen some stuff, but never anything even remotely like what you saw, I wish I did though.

When I was a kid, around 1955 or so, I was with my mother as she was bringing in the laundry from our clothesline, I was a little more than knee-high to her, I guess. I watched her taking down the clothes from the clothespins and since I was short and underneath the sheets (?) hanging there, I saw off on our horizon in the West (I know it was West because I know where it is NOW, but I didn't know then) a flying 'object' that was either triangular or a fleet of lights going from North to South, about one fist high from the horizon.

What I remember seeing is maybe 7 lights, I just know it was enough that it made a nice triangle. Maybe 1 at the tip, 2 on each side, and 1 in the middle and one at the middle tail. That is how I see it now, but it could have been slightly different.

Back then I had no clue what a triangle was, and I more than likely didn't know what the word meant. I know now. I saw a triangle formation OR a triangular object that flew low on the horizon. I told my mother to, "Look!", we watched it until it disappeared behind neighbor's houses and that is all I remember of that event.
(This was in Garland, Texas, I don't recall any bases around there though, but there may have been then)

Now, being honest, back in the early 50's a big thing for our (entire) family was to lay in our backyard and stare at the night sky and hope to see a "flying saucer" because they were all the rage. I remember seeing Sputnik later on too, and that was crazy for me to see at an early age. So, we were all in tune with the times, flying saucers were big back then, meaning the 'fad', not the size.


Anyway, I definitely saw it and it is burnt into my mind to this day, but, even now I have zero clues as to what that could have been.
As far as I know, triangular sightings were not seen at all back then.
I will say that it was VERY common to see and hear Navy/Air Force jets (I am unsure which) that would fly over us daily faster than the speed of sound leaving us with the sonic boom.

Although that was the norm, it might have also been the norm for jets flying at night in formation, maybe that is what I saw, but I do still distinctly remember that there wasn't any sound. Like any kid, I LOVED jets, so jet sounds made a huge impression on me.

That was my 'first' time seeing something that I couldn't comprehend.

I also remember sitting on my mother's lap in a hospital waiting room waiting for my older brother to be born. So, there is that. (True story too)