The reason why Religion is put to shame

a reply to: noonebutme

Science provides a framework and methodology of investigating, analysing, testing and proving hypotheses and theories for observed phenomena. That’s it. It attempts to find the truth. It also encourages debate and discussion and challenges, as this helps to either strengthen an argument or prove it is wrong.

You are speaking theoretical. That's how science used to work. That has all been corrupted by widespread acceptance of things like "the science is settled" and "listen to the science!" Science, as it works today, is a methodology of forcing political propaganda on a public that does not realize they are listening to propaganda.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
That has all been corrupted by widespread acceptance of things like "the science is settled" and "listen to the science!" Science, as it works today, is a methodology of forcing political propaganda on a public that does not realize they are listening to propaganda.

No it hasn’t. That’s what someone who doesn’t read or investigate or apply the very principles of the scientific method would say.

Sure, some people use science as a political ideological standpoint or to push their agenda. But that isn’t the fault of science. That’s the idiot who doesn’t get it and the idiots who listen to him.

Religion is also used for political power and gain. Is all religion corrupt?

What you said is just your opinion, which is fine. But the process of investigating what we observe is a pretty good model, the best we have so far.

And religion has nothing of an equivalent nature. Science is based on the facts, religion only on faith.

a reply to: noonebutme

That’s what someone who doesn’t read or investigate or apply the very principles of the scientific method would say.

OK, thanks for proving my point. Nice talking with you.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Ok Mr Sarcastic. But science works. Religion doesn’t help to explain the natural world around you.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
...
One last point... true Christianity is far more than just being told we are to believe a certain way. I know of no one, even here in the Bible Belt, who has simply accepted that without any other experiences. No, true Christianity is about not just believing in Jesus, but knowing Jesus personally. ...

Religion by default requires some degree of belief. Which means nobody knows for sure. Science is a little better, in that is starts by measuring things we know actually exist, and then extrapolating with mathematics to try and come up with explanations that keep the ball rolling.

But of course, science will be the first to admit that if somebody comes up with a better theory that fits the data better, the old theories go right in the dumpster. Religion is loathe to do that in any situation.

originally posted by: whereislogic

True Christians Then and Now

Christians of the first century at times had different opinions about things. For example, speaking of those in Corinth, the apostle Paul said: “Disclosure was made to me about you, my brothers, by those of the house of Chloe, that dissensions exist among you. What I mean is this, that each one of you says: ‘I belong to Paul,’ ‘But I to Apollos,’ ‘But I to Cephas,’ ‘But I to Christ.’”​—1 Corinthians 1:11, 12.

Did Paul view these differences as of little significance? Was each individual simply following his own path to salvation? Far from it! Paul admonished: “I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”​—1 Corinthians 1:10.

Of course, unity of belief cannot be achieved by coercion. It is achieved only when individuals carefully investigate matters and arrive at and accept the same conclusions. Thus, a personal study of God’s Word and an honest desire to apply what is learned are essential steps to enjoy the kind of unity that Paul spoke of. Can such unity be found? As we have seen, God has long dealt with his people as a group. Is it possible to identify that group today?

The Benefits of Right Association

The psalmist David once asked: “O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent? Who will reside in your holy mountain?” That surely is a thought-provoking question. David provided the answer: “He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness and speaking the truth in his heart.” (Psalm 15:1, 2) ...

Source: Which Religion Should You Choose?


“One Lord [there is], one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”​—EPHESIANS 4:4-6.

“Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. You must not walk after other gods, any gods of the peoples who are all around you, (for Jehovah your God in your midst is a God exacting exclusive devotion).” Moses left no doubt in the minds of the Israelites gathered on the plains of Moab, shortly before they were due to enter the Promised Land. He plainly stated that their God, Jehovah, is one God, and that Jehovah expects exclusive worship. In a previous discourse, Moses had said: “Jehovah is the true God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath. There is no other. And you must keep his regulations and his commandments that I am commanding you today, that it may go well with you.”​—Deuteronomy 6:4, 14, 15; 4:39, 40.

No room in those words for different religious opinions. Israel had one God. And Jehovah outlined plainly the one acceptable way in which he might be worshiped.




Context for the things mentioned there in Isaiah 45:

Defending the Divine Name (playlist)

originally posted by: St0rD
What if the real message behind Christianity (and religions as a whole) was to learn from teachers like Jesus and the such, realize what's hidden behind their teachings and put it into actions into the real world? What was JC working towards to teach us? Claiming to have to believe in him and asking others to do the same mean absolutely nothing alone by itselfs if it isn't backed up by strong incentives to do so.

Good post...

I consider myself spiritual, but left the organized part behind long ago.

That said, I do recall things from the bible like...

Faith without works is dead.

You can move mountains with the faith of a mustard seed.

and (Jesus talking about the miracles he has done):

All that I have done, you shall do, and more.

So, no, the whole concept of salvation without works is something for the evil, wicked and lazy, and most likey a trap for them.

a reply to: St0rD

So when I see Christians and genuine good honest people claim all over the place that the only way back to the Source is to believe in Jesus Christ or God without doing any real efforts whatsoever other than having blind "faith" I can't help but have understanding to those who deny the existence of a supreme being.

Can't let this one go unchecked. By your understanding you paint a very gloomy picture of Christianity. I cannot understand why it is always Christian bashing when there are so many other religions out there that are never touched by ATS forums. It seems as though the Christian bible is a target of delightful bashing.

The new testament does not tell anyone to simply sit on faith without works for their salvation. Every soul will die
one day and after our death we are judged not only by faith but also by works.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Now common sense tells me that I must naturally have faith first in order to then act upon that faith. But make no mistake in thinking that I can be be a nice guy and do a lot of good things and without belief in the Christ Jesus will enter His kingdom. I must have faith [Belief] to act upon that faith. Two people can perform the same deed, one with faith in Jesus and one with no faith in Jesus. Sorry to tell you this but the one nice guy with no faith will not enter the kingdom of Jesus and the bible agrees with that rule.

a reply to: St0rD

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting.

a reply to: Seede

It didn't seem like he was bashing Christianity, just calling out a certain group of them who believe that accepting Jesus into your heart is more important than doing good deeds and being a good person. Not only is that hypocritical, it's harmful. We are well aware that a good amount of Christians do not fit that bill.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: TheRedneck

Ok Mr Sarcastic. But science works. Religion doesn’t help to explain the natural world around you.

Neither does glassblowing or keeping a puppy. Neither one of those explain the natural world around you, so they aren't real, either? Is that what you're saying? The purpose of religion is not to explain the natural world, it's got it's own purpose. Just as glassblowing or keeping a puppy hasn't got the same purpose as science. To say one thing is not some other thing or does not serve the same purpose is pointless. We already know that.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Religion by default requires some degree of belief. Which means nobody knows for sure. Science is a little better, in that is starts by measuring things we know actually exist, and then extrapolating with mathematics to try and come up with explanations that keep the ball rolling.

But of course, science will be the first to admit that if somebody comes up with a better theory that fits the data better, the old theories go right in the dumpster. Religion is loathe to do that in any situation.

Maybe because The Bible is real and nobody has found a better, more accurate explanation? They say water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Is this true? Or is it not true because there is a further explanation waiting to be discovered?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: St0rD

So when I see Christians and genuine good honest people claim all over the place that the only way back to the Source is to believe in Jesus Christ or God without doing any real efforts whatsoever other than having blind "faith" I can't help but have understanding to those who deny the existence of a supreme being.

Can't let this one go unchecked. By your understanding you paint a very gloomy picture of Christianity. I cannot understand why it is always Christian bashing when there are so many other religions out there that are never touched by ATS forums. It seems as though the Christian bible is a target of delightful bashing.

That's the same point I was going to make. The Easter Bunny is not real. How come there aren't zillions of threads bashing him? If Christianity isn't real, why do so many people take the time to say it's not real? What would be the point, if it's not real? It's almost as if someone has an agenda to make people believe Christianity and Jesus aren't real. Almost like when The Bible accuses Satan of having that same agenda. Coincidence? I think not.

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Religion by default requires some degree of belief. Which means nobody knows for sure. Science is a little better, in that is starts by measuring things we know actually exist, and then extrapolating with mathematics to try and come up with explanations that keep the ball rolling.

But of course, science will be the first to admit that if somebody comes up with a better theory that fits the data better, the old theories go right in the dumpster. Religion is loathe to do that in any situation.

Maybe because The Bible is real and nobody has found a better, more accurate explanation? They say water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Is this true? Or is it not true because there is a further explanation waiting to be discovered?

Nobody has found a more accurate explanation than the bible?? I hope that's sarcasm. It's hard to tell these days.

If Christianity isn't real, why do so many people take the time to say it's not real?

Because Christians don't shut up about it. They are constantly out there preaching arrogantly. Many call it fact and deny science to rectify that view and threaten others with hell for not believing the same thing. If Christians would stop the discrimination and trying to control other people's lives, this may change, but atheists today are heavily oppressed and Christians are constantly trying to force their personal beliefs into law.

originally posted by: Toothache

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Religion by default requires some degree of belief. Which means nobody knows for sure. Science is a little better, in that is starts by measuring things we know actually exist, and then extrapolating with mathematics to try and come up with explanations that keep the ball rolling.

But of course, science will be the first to admit that if somebody comes up with a better theory that fits the data better, the old theories go right in the dumpster. Religion is loathe to do that in any situation.

Maybe because The Bible is real and nobody has found a better, more accurate explanation? They say water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Is this true? Or is it not true because there is a further explanation waiting to be discovered?

Nobody has found a more accurate explanation than the bible?? I hope that's sarcasm. It's hard to tell these days.

If Christianity isn't real, why do so many people take the time to say it's not real?

Because Christians don't shut up about it. They are constantly out there preaching arrogantly. Many call it fact and deny science to rectify that view and threaten others with hell for not believing the same thing. If Christians would stop the discrimination and trying to control other people's lives, this may change, but atheists today are heavily oppressed and Christians are constantly trying to force their personal beliefs into law.

I think Christians are wrong to deny science, but not all Christians do this. I think God knows and understands science very well. Why do you think God asked the archangel Michael to hide the dead body of Moses when he died so that Satan couldn't find it? It was so that Satan, who also understands and uses science, could not get the body and use the DNA from it.

And I don't think Christians are "arrogantly" out there preaching, it's what their faith calls them to do. Some people have no faith at all, yet they're constantly bashing Christians. There should be a word about that kind of thing, no true calling or belief in anything, but still being driven by some purpose. Maybe these people are being driven by Satan and they're not aware of it. Couldn't that be possible?

originally posted by: darkbake
I 100% agree! If you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior and think that is all you need to do to lead a healthy life, you are an idiot!

People should be learning from the wisdom of their ancestors, applying it to their own life, and also building on that wisdom. Some of it might be outdated and need to be updated.

This all requires critical thinking and not blind belief!

Guess I am an idiot who believes in having the faith of a child.

(Luke 18:17) Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”

(Mark 10: 13-16) And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

(Matthew 18:3) And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

(Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

(Romans 10:17) So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

(John 3:16) “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

(Ephesians 2:8-9) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

(Romans 1:17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

(Hebrews 11:7) By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

(Mark 11:22) And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God.

...

a reply to: Toothache

Because Christians don't shut up about it. They are constantly out there preaching arrogantly. If Christians would stop the discrimination and trying to control other people's lives, this may change, but atheists today are heavily oppressed and Christians are constantly trying to force their personal beliefs into law.

You have a lot of hatred in you. I wonder who taught you all of that. You are not thinking right and here is how i know that you are greatly misled. Who controls the lower house of the congress today? Who is the majority in the higher congress today? Who is president and vice president of the USA today? Now who is forcing who today? You see, you make no sense whatsoever. You seem to pop off your hate with nothing outside of hate for Christianity. You need anger management.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Toothache

Because Christians don't shut up about it. They are constantly out there preaching arrogantly. If Christians would stop the discrimination and trying to control other people's lives, this may change, but atheists today are heavily oppressed and Christians are constantly trying to force their personal beliefs into law.

You have a lot of hatred in you. I wonder who taught you all of that. You are not thinking right and here is how i know that you are greatly misled. Who controls the lower house of the congress today? Who is the majority in the higher congress today? Who is president and vice president of the USA today? Now who is forcing who today? You see, you make no sense whatsoever. You seem to pop off your hate with nothing outside of hate for Christianity. You need anger management.

Everything I said was true, and I'm not referring to all Christians. Congress and white house staff are mostly Christian. Yes, Christians (esp on the right) often try to force their beliefs into law. It's a problem.

a reply to: Toothache

Everything I said was true, and I'm not referring to all Christians. Congress and white house staff are mostly Christian. Yes, Christians (esp on the right) often try to force their beliefs into law. It's a problem.

I question your judgment as to what is a Christian. A Christian platform of abortion and one world order is not acceptable to the heavenly Father of Jesus. If a one world government was acceptable we would never have had this problem that we see today. This entire USA structure is a sin against God.

Think about what you just said. If Christians were trying to force Christianity upon people then that should tell you that the ones that are the victims are not Christians in the first place. So why should it be a problem if everyone becomes a Christian? Then we would not have your problem if the world became all Christians and quit the killing factory of children, wars, theft, lying, stealing, sexual perversions, and all sorts of ungodly acts that are common place today. The platform of Jesus is none of these things and now rules this world.