Attacking old folks

a reply to: Bluntone22

17 years for using a taser on a 71 yo. I forgot its the US, gotta keep the free labour for the prison industrial complex supplied

a reply to: ketsuko

Honestly, we only spanked him a few times. Other methods were effective.

This was my experience too. When my kids were out of control/temper tantrum, time out in their room did the trick. I may have popped them to get their attention, but losing privileges or other types of consequences were effective. In fact my son was so tender-hearted, all you usually had to do was talk hard to him. My daughter was more head-strong so she usually got the time out. On a humorous note, one time out in public when she was two, I popped her little fanny and she wheeled around, looked up at me and said, "Don't. Hit. Me!" Got some side-eye from strangers that day, haha.

With many kids, the biggest problem is they lack quality attention from their parents. Parents who are glued to screens and only pay attention to their kids when they misbehave, teach their kids that the only way to be relevant in the world is to act out. Sad. And dangerous.

a reply to: new_here

I got spanked as a kid, but my parents only used it when I had exhausted all other methods of control. I did push them to it a few times too. I was smart, but part of that was examining exactly where the boundaries were and when you do that ... well, you walk over them a few times.

For us, we discovered that the easiest method of control was to give up a reasonable amount of it. We started presenting choices early and often. The trick to it is making sure that the options you allow are ones you can live with. Things like, "We're getting yogurt, but look at all the flavors you can choose from!" or "You need to make at least 3 practices this week, but you have 5 days to do that in. Which days do you want to go?" or "We can attend 6 weeks of camp this summer, but they have 10 theme weeks. Which 6 themes do you want to go to?"

a reply to: XCrycek

There's a spanking and then there's beating, I think most of the serial killers you're thinking of were beat as a child rather than spanked. Heck I was paddled at school once, didn't do any harm because I know I screwed up and that was the consequence of my actions. I was never hit, struck, or abused in any fashion, and had maybe 4 spankings total for good reason. Discipline done correctly can produce a very well adjusted human being, done incorrectly it can create a monster.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

If it's the only solution that you can think of, then you are the problem.

a reply to: wheresthebody

Except that if you pay attention, most of us here who said we've used it also said it wasn't our first option. It was generally our last.

a reply to: ketsuko

My point stands.

Then of course, all this talk about use of violence leads on to the idea of combat sports. It would be a topic in our household where our son is going to test for his first degree this summer.

If violence is never the answer, then where does that leave learning to use it? He's being taught self-defense technique which implies, of course, that violence is sometimes the answer and there is a huge amount of discipline that goes into that.

a reply to: ketsuko

You're getting good at moving the goalposts, lots of practice I guess.

Spanking or beating children does not equal self defense.

a reply to: wheresthebody

No. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. So if you defend yourself with violence, then you are incompetent would be the implication.

a reply to: network dude

How does a person become that evil? Is it taught, or embedded in the genetic code? I see it as a flaw, one that needs corrected.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
dfw.cbslocal.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...
www.nydailynews.com...
www.kron4.com...

Lead poisoning. Which often leads to autism -- another known factor in violence.

Just do a quick search with "lead poisoning + (name of city)". Do another quick search with "lead poisoning + violence". Do a quick search on "lead poisoning + autism" and then another on "autism + violence." Add another search on "lead poisoning + inner cities."

It isn't a secret. It's just that the people who care have no power... and the people with power don't care.

This is certainly not the only reason for violence, but it's a big one.

a reply to: ketsuko


Fair enough, I hope that your son never needs to defend himself from morons.

I've spent years working in a bar and have had some experience with reducing tension to avoid violence using only dialog, I don't mean to come off too harsh, I just find it all absolutely abhorrent.

I wish the issue here were merely the method of disciplining children.

These aren't children acting out, these are violent crimes committed by violent adult criminals. There seems to be some hate crimes involved with this subject as well, considering we are left to guess abut the source of the original thread.

Why do such criminals think they are justified in their crimes and why are they so stupid when they commit them?

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Walking while Asian.

My conjecture is that it's related to this.

Several unprovoked attacks on elderly Asian Americans, including at least three in the Bay Area captured in disturbing videos in recent days, have raised concerns about anti-Asian bias related to the Covid-19 pandemic.

At a news conference in Oakland's Chinatown on Monday, Alameda County District Attorney Nancy O'Malley announced the creation of a special response unit focused on crimes against Asians, and particularly older Asians.

Understand this is recent, within the past few weeks and has nothing to do with concerns about ORANGE MAN that we saw the press bellowing about when the stuff first started to be a concern and he started restricting travel from China.

This is also Chesa Boudin's area of law enforcement and his philosophy is one where he feels like no one should be punished for crime. He's very progressive, shall we say in his methods of prosecution. At least, criminal prosecutions are way, way down.

a reply to: XCrycek

Raising kids with love is important. However, raising kids with discipline is also important.

I taught, and retired from teaching PSY classes, Child Development and Parenting at a major Univ for years.

When someone asked about their "friends child" who was a teen and did awful things. I said it is nearly too late, unless one used "tough love" methods. If you don't get your child under control before age 5, well it is pretty much a lost cause.

0-18 months: discipline is redirection and explanation (even though they may or may not understand)

18 mths - you know they understand: redirection, explanation and time out (no time out is NOT cruel)

3-4: time out (1 minute for every year of age), taking away something they enjoy (not their lovey toy) like no Paw Patrol today, explanation of what they did wrong

5-8: time out, take away something they enjoy; screen time works very well these days (won't clean up their toys, you take a large trash bag and pick up all the toys and hide them, the child has to earn back their toys); calmly explain what they did wrong even if you are positive they know

9-13: take away something related to what they did; also take away screen time; take away their phone (won't clean their room, you go in with a large trash bag and collect everything on the floor and the child gets it back in a week, or has to earn items back): EXPLANATION of the current and future consequences to them of their behavior ; ALWAYS have them write a half page essay on what they did wrong and why it was wrong (this is a TERRIBLE punishment to most kids)

14-17: no curfew, I know this is radical - but set time to be home based on what the child is doing allowing extra time for traffic, the child must call for additional time (my kids friends were jealous of her lack of curfew even though she normally had to be the first one home they all came to our house and fell asleep on the floor waiting for their curfew to go home) : EXPLANATION of the current and future consequences to them of their behavior : take away the car/phone: ALWAYS have them write a full page essay on what they did wrong and why it was wrong and the consequences to their future (again most kids consider this the worst punishment possible).

18+ - they have to learn to be adults sometime; treat them like adults; you expect your spouse to tell you where they are going and about what time they will be home, expect that of your 18+ at home; you expect your spouse to help with household chores, expect that of your young adult; they wash their own clothes, clean their own personal space (room/basement area) ; if they don't follow the basic courtesy you expect from a spouse they can start paying rent and look for another place to live (unless they are handicapped or challenged in some way and need to be treated like a child) Once they are working and not in school they should pay rent, even if nominal and pay for their own car insurance.

NEVER let bad behavior go!

NEVER laugh at kids swearing or misbehaving, it is cute when they are little but horrible when they are screaming teenagers.

Spanking is the LAST option - last resort and should only be used for things that put the child's life at risk, like running in the street, even then only if it is a repeated behavior. I used it for a child that (before child car locks) kept opening a car door while the car was in motion or on the street. I used it after the child did this more than once. But I never said this in Univ class, but I have said this when hired to do parenting classes in small groups.

HOWEVER, there are some kids born with a screw loose who are psychopaths from the day they are born and it is not the parents fault, it is a brain disorder.

That said, most kids who act like this it is wretched parenting. Parents who thought bad behavior was cute and laughed at it or did nothing more than a light scolding.

The worst parents are the ones who tell teachers their child could not possibly have "done that" or that the kids behavior wasn't worth punishing, because it means they are blind to the fact that their kids, as do all kids, misbehave - they are raising the kind of monsters that beat up old people.

I sure didn't intend for this to be a "how to discipline your child" thread, but here it is. We raised 3 kids and now a grandkid. All 3 of mine reacted differently and needed different stimuli to get their attention. Oldest responded to grounding very well. She would correct bad actions quickly when threatened with being banished to her room. Middle kid lectured me on how spanking was wrong and immoral. She didn't screw up much as a kid and saved her mistakes for later in life. Son responded well to a smack in the ass. He even thanks me today for the ones he got. They were few enough he remembers them. And the key in all of it, was "disappointment" from parents.

Kids aren't all the same. And mine were exceptionally good at hiding that damn manual that was supposed to come with them.

a reply to: The2Billies

Great post. I was an elem school guidance counselor where I did parenting workshops. Incorporated much of the info you've outlined. One thing I also shared, from experience, is to not discipline out of pure anger. Step outside of the situation and view it as an observer. If you can't, tell the kids, "Mom/Da needs a 5 minute time out before I do/say something I'll regret. We'll discuss this when I'm finished." This does 2 things... lets you calm down enough to discipline with love not anger, and models self control (as in, think before you act.)

After the workshops, I always read the childrens book "I'll Love You Forever." Not a dry eye in the house! If anyone is not familiar with that book, OMG check it out!!

Edit to add: The first time you tell your kids YOU need a time out, prepare to see their eyes like saucers and their jaws drop, lol. Mine tip-toed around me and were good as gold for the rest of that day.

originally posted by: network dude
I sure didn't intend for this to be a "how to discipline your child" thread, but here it is. We raised 3 kids and now a grandkid. All 3 of mine reacted differently and needed different stimuli to get their attention. Oldest responded to grounding very well. She would correct bad actions quickly when threatened with being banished to her room. Middle kid lectured me on how spanking was wrong and immoral. She didn't screw up much as a kid and saved her mistakes for later in life. Son responded well to a smack in the ass. He even thanks me today for the ones he got. They were few enough he remembers them. And the key in all of it, was "disappointment" from parents.

Kids aren't all the same. And mine were exceptionally good at hiding that damn manual that was supposed to come with them.

You are correct, they are all different - that's why a range of things to try.

Surprisingly, for one of my granchildren this works best: If he gets all A's AND doesn't misbehave he gets unlimited video game time. A positive reward that has worked fantastic.

Each kid is different, however I have to say that universally writing the essay is the most hated punishment of all, and quite effective for most kids, but not all - not everything works for all kids that is for certain.

But kids that gang up and beat up old people have been taught that violence is acceptable.

Unfortunately, we saw on television all summer long
real (not TV but REAL) violence
excused at riots/looting/burning of cities
and even glorified by elite political leaders and the media.

Even VP Harris raised money so these violent people would not be punished,
thus tacitly glorifying their violent behavior.

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: The2Billies

Great post. I was an elem school guidance counselor where I did parenting workshops. Incorporated much of the info you've outlined. One thing I also shared, from experience, is to not discipline out of pure anger. Step outside of the situation and view it as an observer. If you can't, tell the kids, "Mom/Da needs a 5 minute time out before I do/say something I'll regret. We'll discuss this when I'm finished." This does 2 things... lets you calm down enough to discipline with love not anger, and models self control (as in, think before you act.)

Yep, I recommend parental time out especially when the kids are very young. Children will be ok in the crib, even if they are crying, while Mom/Dad go to another room to calm down.

This stops the caregiver from getting carried away and actually committing violence that eventually becomes the imitated violence we see these days with gangs of kids beating up people.
OR Gangs of young adults burning cities/looting/rioting
in cities with the support and admiration of elite politicians (VP Harris)
and the media (CNN, MSNBC, NBC,ABC, CBS, NYTimes etc.)
which normalizes this type of extremist violence into acceptable behavior.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Precisely why US cities are no-go zones for the elderly. I feel sorry for the ones that cant leave, but really, they have no business being there.