Minnesotas socializing with people outside of their homes face $1000 fine or 90 days jailtime

a reply to: links234

Kiss my butt, and if that's the most tyrannical thing you've ever been forced to do, then you don't understand freedom.

It's just one tiny peck.

a reply to: links234

Good one, (fellow) civilian.

a reply to: ketsuko

It only took 11 years.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: links234

Considering some danish scientist just did a peer reviewed study that said the "protection" of a mask is negligible...

Its a stupid rule, and almost totally unenforceable, so yea good luck with that.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY 100% FALSE - and you need to STOP spreading this misinformation.

From DAY ONE, the purpose of wearing masks was designed to slow the spread of the virus from the wearer to others, NOT protect the wearer from the virus. This is called 'source control' - controlling the virus at the source.

Study after study after study has demonstrated that masks are 80 to 90% effective at that source control task.

This Danish study you describe DOES NOT examine the use of masks as a source control, in fact is specifically says that that is one of its weaknesses...

Limitation:

Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.

Other comments from the study's 'Discussion' section...

The potential benefits of a community-wide recommendation to wear masks include combined prevention and source control for symptomatic and asymptomatic persons, improved attention, and reduced potential stigmatization of persons wearing masks to prevent infection of others (17). Although masks may also have served as source control in SARS-CoV-2–infected participants, the study was not designed to determine the effectiveness of source control.

The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.

In other words, the study tells us EXACTLY what has been said all along: wearing the mask is to protect others, it is not very useful at protecting the mask wearer themselves - therefore we need other additional tools like social distancing.

PLEASE STOP BEING A NINCOMPOOP, and WEAR YOUR EFFING MASK.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: game over man
We should have done this nation wide along time ago, but a much stricter war-like lockdown with guys in hazmat suits driving around enforcing everyone to stay inside. If we did that for one month, obviously allowing everyone to prepare beforehand, we would be in much better shape instead of being the worst in the world.

Totally. You sure one month would do it to get rid of the virus though? I think if they had done your suggestion for 2 months, then we would be virus free now. We could probably even eradicate the flu virus too.

Absolutely.

Victoria Australia is coming out of one of the most strict lock downs in the world after 112 days. Step by step were are getting back to normal. As of today we have had 21 'double donuts' (zero new cases - zero deaths) in a row. Masks are still mandatory - and I am happy to keep it that way. We can eat in restaurants (occupancy limitations). We can get a haircut. We can go to church. We can play tennis and golf and whatever.

Your mileage may vary. You will be starting from a MUCH higher cliff than we did, I doubt 2 months will be enough. Of course I guarantee that as soon as any measures start having an effect the pressure will on to back off - which will just give it a new chance to start up again. You really have to stomp on it and stomp on it and stomp on it.

People keep talking about 'a second wave'. The US isn't having a second wave, because the first wave never ended. The powers that be succumbed to pressure to 'open up' and give the virus free reign.

Good luck. You need it.

a reply to: links234

I'm sick of the self righteous assholes who believe they have some authority to tell other people what to do because they feel scared and it's other people's fault. Get #ed. Go crawl in a #ing hole and don't come out until you die of old age if you want to feel safe. Life is scary. It's dangerous lf you can't look after yourself, get into your #ing safety hole and don't expect other people to do it for you. You're a grown up, i'm assuming, if not shut the # up and go cry to mommy and daddy, other wise, grow up and stop expecting other people to take responsibility for your safety.

It's honestly #ing pathetic at this point. I have no words for adults who think this way. Go back and play with your #ing legos or something. Wait I guess those have pointy corners....I dunno, maybe just go stare at the wall of your panic room until the world becomes safe some day?

The govenor is abusing the system so you just need to learn how to play the system.

SCOTUS has ruled that anyone with a camera can be the press and is therefore protected by the first amendment. The government can't stop the press from going out and documenting.

So carry a camera when you go out and make yourself a blog. If you go out to meet neighbors bring your camera maybe document a little. If a cop stops you then tell them you are part of the press and are documenting matters of public interest. They still might fine or arrest you but you will beat it in court and be able to file a suit against the state.

Lockdown and masks will never stop the virus in the US. It would work, but there are far too many people that refuse to follow it and it only takes a few arsholes to spread it all over again. So it is pointless. We either need to live with it or find a cure. Half measures will never work and full measures will be rejected.

a reply to: rnaa

PLEASE STOP BEING A NINCOMPOOP, and WEAR YOUR EFFING MASK.

where did I say I didnt wear my masks when in public places where I cant keep distance?

At work the mask is 100% useless, we work in a warm humid enviroment (saturation ruins ANY benefit of a mask) and we are usually on top of each other working on the aircraft. So even the shortened distance from wearing the mask is not good enough, covid has ripped through the hanger multiple times already.

a reply to: Snarl

Who's gonna enforce that? What happens when an enforcer gets shot right in the belly?

Um...the police?

I mean ... they're just asking for it. Right?

Not really. They are asking for persons to cease socializing.
Under point of arrest and a $1000 fine.
How one responds to this is probably an
individual thing. Eventually, if the police are doing this right,
everyone will act predictably, more or less.
Because social scores.

And because the next logical step would be using the German polizei model,
wherein the police are used to pre-emptiveley prevent socializing
by kicking down the door of anyone suggesting otherwise.

Do you get the picture?

Yes, we see...

# 1256

a reply to: rnaa

Yes because a straight comparison between victoria and nearly 4 million sq miles and 330+ million people is a valid comparison, oh lets not forget about you are on an island with minimal visitors from outside the area in comparison. Italy did strict lockdowns as well but unless you can lockdown the borders the concept is flawed and doomed to fail and only acomplishes in destroying the economy.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Never going to fly.

I can't help but think that the first person to be arrested will be a rich person once the lawsuit is settled. And the Governor himself should be the one to pay, since he is the one going against the US Constitution.

It's going to take something like this to push the quiet one's over the edge.

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: game over man
We should have done this nation wide along time ago, but a much stricter war-like lockdown with guys in hazmat suits driving around enforcing everyone to stay inside. If we did that for one month, obviously allowing everyone to prepare beforehand, we would be in much better shape instead of being the worst in the world.

Totally. You sure one month would do it to get rid of the virus though? I think if they had done your suggestion for 2 months, then we would be virus free now. We could probably even eradicate the flu virus too.

Absolutely.

Victoria Australia is coming out of one of the most strict lock downs in the world after 112 days. Step by step were are getting back to normal. As of today we have had 21 'double donuts' (zero new cases - zero deaths) in a row. Masks are still mandatory - and I am happy to keep it that way. We can eat in restaurants (occupancy limitations). We can get a haircut. We can go to church. We can play tennis and golf and whatever.

Your mileage may vary. You will be starting from a MUCH higher cliff than we did, I doubt 2 months will be enough. Of course I guarantee that as soon as any measures start having an effect the pressure will on to back off - which will just give it a new chance to start up again. You really have to stomp on it and stomp on it and stomp on it.

People keep talking about 'a second wave'. The US isn't having a second wave, because the first wave never ended. The powers that be succumbed to pressure to 'open up' and give the virus free reign.

Good luck. You need it.

So in the fall, when it starts to come back in your area, you will gleefully lock yourself down again? How many times will you do this before you realize that the virus doesn't disappear just because you hid from it?

a reply to: akiros
Look we have just past the 1/4 million deaths bench mark, this is war time emergency stuff, this is no joke, both Cons and Progs...are dying at alarming numbers, This is not the mud pit so I'd better modify my ans to your post.. But it's folks like you! who kept the death rate climbing with your stupidity and downright Anti patriotic sensibilities.
If a terrorist had set off a dirty bomb killing that number of Ppl how many countries would have been invaded or bombed into the dark ages by now.

a reply to: Spider879

You sound hysterical, bud. Don't miss a dose of your medication, it seems to cause deranged, manic episodes.

originally posted by: SuicideKing33
a reply to: Spider879

You sound hysterical, bud. Don't miss a dose of your medication, it seems to cause deranged, manic episodes.

And you sound irresponsible and callous , part of surviving is to know when the ish is hitting fan. well our nation is getting splattered right now while folks like you wishing it just go away , it won't it takes action.

a reply to: rnaa

If they were 80 to 90% effective then why are we having a spike in my area where everyone is forced to wear one and everyone does?

Shouldn't 80 to 90% of that spike be gone or reduced?

Instead every single official here acts like no one is wearing masks, but everyone is. I don't see anyone without when I'm out and about. The only places I saw people without were the places where people were allowed to be without, and those aren't the ones being blamed for this spike.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: game over man
We should have done this nation wide along time ago, but a much stricter war-like lockdown with guys in hazmat suits driving around enforcing everyone to stay inside. If we did that for one month, obviously allowing everyone to prepare beforehand, we would be in much better shape instead of being the worst in the world.

Totally. You sure one month would do it to get rid of the virus though? I think if they had done your suggestion for 2 months, then we would be virus free now. We could probably even eradicate the flu virus too.

Absolutely.

Victoria Australia is coming out of one of the most strict lock downs in the world after 112 days. Step by step were are getting back to normal. As of today we have had 21 'double donuts' (zero new cases - zero deaths) in a row. Masks are still mandatory - and I am happy to keep it that way. We can eat in restaurants (occupancy limitations). We can get a haircut. We can go to church. We can play tennis and golf and whatever.

Your mileage may vary. You will be starting from a MUCH higher cliff than we did, I doubt 2 months will be enough. Of course I guarantee that as soon as any measures start having an effect the pressure will on to back off - which will just give it a new chance to start up again. You really have to stomp on it and stomp on it and stomp on it.

People keep talking about 'a second wave'. The US isn't having a second wave, because the first wave never ended. The powers that be succumbed to pressure to 'open up' and give the virus free reign.

Good luck. You need it.

So in the fall, when it starts to come back in your area, you will gleefully lock yourself down again? How many times will you do this before you realize that the virus doesn't disappear just because you hid from it?

Yes indeed, I've mentioned it doesn't suddenly poof just because you hide from it.

Several times.

They ALWAYS dodge the obvious and don't bother to consider it doesn't literally die off like they assume & try to BS people with -- it's a virus, and like frozen ones in permafrost, they just wait for the next opportunity to make someone sick no matter how long that wait is. Kicking the can down the road at best, really, no virus eradication to be had that way.
Good luck getting a non-pretzeled answer (or train of thought) out of anyone stuck in that poster's mindset.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: rnaa

PLEASE STOP BEING A NINCOMPOOP, and WEAR YOUR EFFING MASK.

where did I say I didnt wear my masks when in public places where I cant keep distance?

At work the mask is 100% useless, we work in a warm humid environment (saturation ruins ANY benefit of a mask) and we are usually on top of each other working on the aircraft. So even the shortened distance from wearing the mask is not good enough, covid has ripped through the hanger multiple times already.

That is YOUR SPECIFIC SITUATION and you need to work out with your employer how to provide a safe working environment. The fact that 'covid has ripped through the hanger multiple times already' is ample evidence that you should be more pro-active in ensuring that you can work safely or not at all.

It is certainly NOT an excuse to dismiss the efficacy of wearing masks by others in more common circumstances. It is especially NOT an excuse to misrepresent a scientific study in order to lie about the effectiveness of masks. Masks have been demonstrated in study after study to be 80 to 95% effective in preventing transmission by the mask wearer.

In fact, given that you claim to work in an especially difficult environment to manage, you should be all about ensuring everyone around you, your family, your neighbors, your colleagues families and neighbors, your supermarket clerks, your coffee baristas, EVERYONE helps keep YOU safe by wearing their masks and maintaining the social distance rules. You don't want to be picking up a dose from your local 7/11 clerk and then taking it home and/or work - especially if you don't think you can wear masks at work.

Interestingly, that is exactly why YOU should insist people should wear masks - to KEEP YOU SAFE.

No matter how much you value your personal convenience over the health and safety of others, please don't lie about the effectiveness of wearing masks.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: rnaa

Yes because a straight comparison between victoria and nearly 4 million sq miles and 330+ million people is a valid comparison, oh lets not forget about you are on an island with minimal visitors from outside the area in comparison. Italy did strict lockdowns as well but unless you can lockdown the borders the concept is flawed and doomed to fail and only acomplishes in destroying the economy.

Um... Australia is NOT an Island, and Victoria is not an island. Australia is a continent that is just about the same size as the continental USA and Victoria is on the Australian mainland. Tasmania is an island, and they did indeed have a much easier time of it that mainland Australia.

And I DID NOT try to give a 'straight comparison' between Victoria and the USA.

The Australian population is about 10% that of the USA. 82% of the USA population is in Urban centers, 86% of the Australian population is in Urban centers.

The USA has had about 766 Covid deaths per Million.
Australia has had about 30 Covid deaths per Million.

To compare population sizes if Australia did as badly as the USA in managing Covid, 'we' should have had 76 deaths per million of more.

The difference is in approach. Australians took this crap seriously, Americans, many of them, took it as a hoax after listening to "dear leader" who wanted to pretend that a virus has some kind of political agenda. And that difference has killed 250,000 people and leaving 11,000,000 with life long debilitating consequences - heart, lung, kidney, liver damage.