Here We go Covid Lockdown #2

a reply to: vonclod

You might want to refresh yourself on Sweden, not going as good as they hoped, going quite sideways at the moment!

I've noticed a lot of people are hanging on to stale news for dear life... but I'll make it easy on them.

www.bloomberg.com...

Sweden Uses ‘Unprecedented’ Covid Restrictions as Cases Soar

“We are living in trying times, and it will get worse,” Lofven said. “Don’t go to gyms, don’t go to libraries. Don’t host dinners, don’t host parties. Cancel.”

Sweden was one of the few countries to avoid a lockdown earlier this year, relying instead on voluntary measures. The approach coincided with a much higher death rate than elsewhere in the Nordic region, but Swedish authorities stuck with the strategy, which they said would prove effective in the long run.

The limit on public gatherings follows last week’s decision by Swedish authorities to ban the sale of alcohol after 10 p.m. Sweden had sought to rein in the virus by urging people to avoid contact with those outside their households, but the recommendations seem not to have worked.

See that little part in there...... MUCH HIGHER DEATH RATES

a reply to: JAGStorm

How can you possibly trust numbers generated by a lousy test that is most unreliable?

How can you possibly trust numbers generated by institutions like hospitals and bureaucracies with vested interests in higher numbers?

a reply to: Freeborn

Most small buisness owners would be classified as middle class, when this is all said and done I doubt there will be 1 in 100 small buisnesses open.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: vonclod

You might want to refresh yourself on Sweden, not going as good as they hoped, going quite sideways at the moment!

I've noticed a lot of people are hanging on to stale news for dear life... but I'll make it easy on them.

www.bloomberg.com...

Sweden Uses ‘Unprecedented’ Covid Restrictions as Cases Soar

“We are living in trying times, and it will get worse,” Lofven said. “Don’t go to gyms, don’t go to libraries. Don’t host dinners, don’t host parties. Cancel.”

Sweden was one of the few countries to avoid a lockdown earlier this year, relying instead on voluntary measures. The approach coincided with a much higher death rate than elsewhere in the Nordic region, but Swedish authorities stuck with the strategy, which they said would prove effective in the long run.

The limit on public gatherings follows last week’s decision by Swedish authorities to ban the sale of alcohol after 10 p.m. Sweden had sought to rein in the virus by urging people to avoid contact with those outside their households, but the recommendations seem not to have worked.

See that little part in there...... MUCH HIGHER DEATH RATES

Like all of us, people just getting burnt out! I would agree, bias plays a part in what info one deems "credible"

Hard to follow the conflicting info at times, or don't want to follow..me included(I still took it seriously). Things did calm down a bit, but then you get protests, riots, political rallies, and a certain % of people who never cared to begin with..because it was a "scam" ..which many still cling to.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Dont forget how massive the US is, just because some cities are having trouble dealing with it doesnt mean every corner of the us is having problems.

Mayor in the largest town near me talks about the number of deaths and hospitalizations every monday, right now we have 24 covid related hospitalizations, and zero deaths currently. (were some months ago)

We do not need strict lock downs other corners of the country are the same, this is a brilliant example of DC's one size fits all approach being dated and stupid.

originally posted by: vonclod

You might want to refresh yourself on Sweden, not going as good as they hoped, going quite sideways at the moment!

OK. but why? Not like they have changed in the last 8 months...Do you think it is all masks or no masks?

originally posted by: Irishhaf

We do not need strict lock downs other corners of the country are the same, this is a brilliant example of DC's one size fits all approach being dated and stupid.

Should be based on counties...

a reply to: vonclod

I was alarmed by it from the get go as I have friends/family all over the world. I knew the seriousness of it first hand early on.

Where I live we locked down very early in March/April. By summer it was barely a blip where I live. People got tired of the news and did not believe it was real, some actually thought it was totally Fake.
Now it is fall going into winter. Cases all around here are climbing straight up. I know two more people that have died.
I think reality and fear is starting to sink in.

a reply to: Xtrozero

OK. but why? Not like they have changed in the last 8 months...Do you think it is all masks or no masks?

It's not all masks, but I personally do believe they help.
I do believe that social distancing is extremely important too, (and yes I am against all mass gathering regardless of political side) maybe even more important than masks, but I think the both together could be the real key.

High frequent testing, social distancing and Masks seem to be working for a lot of places that are really doing all three.

a reply to: Xtrozero

You say this above but then say Trump failed to act quickly enough...which is it?

Both

People were trying their best to handle this as it happened - little realizing that it had been happening earlier than they knew. Trump was sitting on information everyone could have used back in January. Can you even imagine how much better off we would be now if we had been acting on this in January?

All old news now - not something worth rehashing at this point

But does it reduce the risk, that is my question.

Apparently no amount of information is going to help you reach a conclusion. As I said earlier - people believe what they want to believe. Or what they need to believe. I don't know how to explain to you that masking helps if at this point you still don't understand that it's not fool proof. It's a numbers game - the virus is airborne. Masks limit the amount put in the air

Less virus in the air - is better

Anyhow - I'm out Xtrozero. Stay safe - whatever that means to you

a reply to: Irishhaf

Our neighbors, our family members': Small-town hospitals overwhelmed by COVID-19 deaths

We do not need strict lock downs other corners of the country are the same, this is a brilliant example of DC's one size fits all approach being dated and stupid.

No they aren't all the same. Count yourself lucky - and do whatever you want

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: vonclod

You might want to refresh yourself on Sweden, not going as good as they hoped, going quite sideways at the moment!

OK. but why? Not like they have changed in the last 8 months...Do you think it is all masks or no masks?

I wouldn't even pretend to know, just pointing out, their plan isn't working out. I know you have stated you wear a mask, and keep your distance, as do I..about all you can do. I'm not in favour of more lockdowns, but I see it coming, if our #s dont receed.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: vonclod

I was alarmed by it from the get go as I have friends/family all over the world. I knew the seriousness of it first hand early on.

Where I live we locked down very early in March/April. By summer it was barely a blip where I live. People got tired of the news and did not believe it was real, some actually thought it was totally Fake.
Now it is fall going into winter. Cases all around here are climbing straight up. I know two more people that have died.
I think reality and fear is starting to sink in.

We did quite well here, kept it down, did a bit of lockdown. Then started relaxing, people got very careless and #s have exploded in last month, getting progressively worse. Will be hearing w/e #s soon, I figure going to be 600+ a day, and beds filling up.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Trump was sitting on information everyone could have used back in January. Can you even imagine how much better off we would be now if we had been acting on this in January?

So are you suggesting only Trump had information? Not the Senate, House, Governors etc too? Trump didn't have a secret...His information came from the same source that everyone else had. January...really? The first week of March the left leadership was screaming how much a xenophobia evil Trump was and all is good, come to NYC and enjoy, Come to San Fran and enjoy so on and so forth. CDC message Feb 27

CDC does not currently recommend the use of facemasks to help prevent novel #coronavirus.

So Trump keeping secrets... This is what I'm suggesting is virtue signaling and using a pandemic as a political weapon. Trump did everything wrong but Governor Cuomo did everything right ...lol OK.

Why didn't the Governors shut down in Jan back when there were zero reported deaths?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

3.8 million sq miles of land, I would wager there are towns that havent seen more than a handful of cases all year.

Where I am at is pretty pragmatic, if numbers go up people will follow the guidelines if not they see no point in listening to people thousands of miles away.

We wear masks where stores demand it, and personally choose to wear them when we are out and about unless told its ok to forego them, we keep 6 feet of distance where able also. (easy for me I dont like people)

National mandates, National Lockdowns Do not work beyond slowing the spread.

Remember when NYC demanded a hospital ship and one was sent and sat there for months using maybe a dozen beds the entire time. All while the city said hospitals were breaking form the strain, my area sent workers to NYC to help they got sent home.

I am not saying its impossible for things to go south, all it takes is a mutation in the wrong direction.

But what has been seen to this point is bad, but certainly not worth wrecking the worlds economy with an over reaction.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well, I mean they were all pretty focused on impeaching the guy at the time.

a reply to: vonclod

Here's the thing though -- numbers spiked ... but the hospitals aren't overflowing here. They are full, but not overflowing. We just have officials worried they might, sort of like they were worried at the outset that they might.

I wonder which models they are looking at this time that predicts this spike, which is already starting to go down according to their own numbers in our area at least, will suddenly put tons of people in the hospital? After all the last models predicted 2 million dead on the low side.

originally posted by: vonclod

I wouldn't even pretend to know, just pointing out, their plan isn't working out. I know you have stated you wear a mask, and keep your distance, as do I..about all you can do. I'm not in favour of more lockdowns, but I see it coming, if our #s dont receed.

I do believe the left was pushing fear porn as a way to get at Trump, now that Trump will soon be out I do not see that fear porn stopping anytime soon.

So when does Sweden hit herd immunity? I bet sooner than later. Looking at the data they spiked back in Jun at 1400 per day but were only doing 8 to 9k tests per day. Now they are spiking at 5000 but are doing about 33k tests per day. If I times 1400 by 4 times test done it comes out to 5600...

So are they any different compared to their last spike period?

Who knows, but I do believe herd immunity is the way to go...

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think with a disease like this one, it's the best option. You can protect the vulnerable and let the healthy younger parts of your population continue to work and move about in your population doing as they do. There are high contact, high infection areas like mass transit and similar where you can do heavy sanitation/sterilizing and require masking, and you can publish guidance for businesses on how to maintain hygiene for themselves and their customers as well as run aggressive education campaigns for the population encouraging hand washing, distancing, avoiding large crowds, etc.

originally posted by: ketsuko

I think with a disease like this one, it's the best option. You can protect the vulnerable and let the healthy younger parts of your population continue to work and move about in your population doing as they do. There are high contact, high infection areas like mass transit and similar where you can do heavy sanitation/sterilizing and require masking, and you can publish guidance for businesses on how to maintain hygiene for themselves and their customers as well as run aggressive education campaigns for the population encouraging hand washing, distancing, avoiding large crowds, etc.

I agree...intense isolation of high risk...let everyone else spread it with mini pauses in places to flatten the curve. So My son at a college town all doing school on their computers ALL partying like crazy in groups of 1000s no mask no social distancing etc... Within 2 weeks they were the highest rate in the world...No one went to the hospital and they all got it and were over it within a few days, no big deal to them. This would be just about everyone under the age of 50 with no serious preexisting conditions.