Why do People See What They See?

a reply to: mirageman
what about the pancakes from outerspace one, i think they even ate the PANcakes and they were soso. why would aliens show up at someones home in the middle of nowhere (rural is common!) and gives them pancakes as a present. why do they often look like things described in the gnostic scriptures "embryonic", archons were tricksters, reality manipulators!
Consciousness parasites!

i dont know what these phenomenon's are, but i dont stop at glitches in consciousness and leave it there.

i have many theories, and the computer simulation one at the moment is most uncomfortable for me, which makes me want to look into it more... but actual aliens from other solar systems is probs not even top 5 for me.

Finding balance on this topic is rough.

Some folks want to believe that anyone can stare at
their navel and rip secrets out of the Universe.

This would be the 'consciousness is magical and nearly
infallible' position.

I needn't say, that this one is flawed on it's face.

There's the 'debunker' position, that human consciousness
(and perception) is so worthless, that all seemingly anomalous
perceptions can be 100% automatically discarded as junk.

I myself don't find it this cut and dried.

At one point, ALL of current science was heretical
pseudo-science junk. ALL of it.

The very essence of science is observation.. at least that's how
it started with natural science.

Now.. the next step is to make a hypothesis, form theories, experiment
and to test the results empirically, so that you don't hoodwink yourself
with raw (and yes, fairly often bad perceptions).

Unfortunately empirical reality has been disproven by the Bell Inequality.

So even simple things.. that we once took for granted.. can no longer be
taken for granted as real.

And when you've got a subject like UFOs / the paranormal / the
ultimate nature of reality, going through a scientific process is
exceedingly difficult. Exceedingly.

But my final thought, is that if you make grand pronouncements,
for or against anything in this field, and don't do any testing or
work towards a theory that could be tested.. what are we
accomplishing?

Kev

a reply to: Arbitrageur

You mentioned " Cynthia Hind", what an awesome coincidence. She reported on an entirely different case, in Zimbabwe in 1994, that I researched and documented recently, now apparently related to the Hawaii reentry fireball swarm pseudo-UFO two weeks ago:

satobs.org...

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
...

There's the 'debunker' position, that human consciousness
(and perception) is so worthless, that all seemingly anomalous
perceptions can be 100% automatically discarded as junk.

Your position on this delusional 'debunker position' may be the real 'junk'. For the sake of productive debate, please try harder to understand the views you are trying to refute.

a reply to: JimOberg

Jim,

do you have a number of the case you have researched
and what percent of them have been perceptual errors?

I'd imagine it's tough to get concrete evidence however..
it's not possible to know about every meteor shower..
every bit of space junk coming down, etc etc

But I guess you can at least tell me, how many such
cases you are aware of, that have had prosaic
meteorological / space junk / broken arrow
solutions?

dozens or hundreds? Thousands?

Just curious.

originally posted by: JimOberg
a reply to: Arbitrageur

You mentioned " Cynthia Hind", what an awesome coincidence. She reported on an entirely different case, in Zimbabwe in 1994, that I researched and documented recently, now apparently related to the Hawaii reentry fireball swarm pseudo-UFO two weeks ago:

satobs.org...

That's an interesting pdf!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: JimOberg

Jim,

do you have a number of the case you have researched
and what percent of them have been perceptual errors?

I'd imagine it's tough to get concrete evidence however..

Some of them are hard to document, but orbital debris is tracked for obvious reasons and Jim has posted this link before documenting the re-entry of many orbiting objects which caused UFO reports:

Misperception of Satellite Re-Entries - Seeing is Not Necessarily Believing.

By the way this is an interesting case for this thread, the aliens seen inside this spherical alien space ship by a respected doctor. We now know what this is too, not a satellite re-entry though:


The artist's impressions look more impressive:



The last one is from this old thread opening post:
The Canary Island Alien Sphere, outstanding case where a poster noted it couldn't be anything but aliens:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Dan Tanna
Now... Thats what i call a sighting of extra terrestrials.

Cannot be any thing esle bar beings from another world with super advanced tech visiting us.

Awesomeness.

Ever noticed how some people seem to be biased about this topic?

I think what happens is when the mind struggles to understand something it can't immediately identify, it starts superimposing possible solutions to the problem which in this case I suspect might be some kind of pareidolia. There is one photo of this UFO in the thread about it, and the police were rightfully skeptical of the account by this doctor of seeing aliens inside the ship, but no doubt the UFO that was photographed existed. The photo doesn't show the aliens inside the craft however.

New YouTube Video On 1976 Canary Islands Mass UFO Sighting

In modern times where almost everyone has a smart phone, I think the smart phone can be used to create a record of the UFO independent of the observer's "consciousness" and perceptual distortions which are by now reasonably well documented even if not fully understood. In a case like this spherical UFO, does the photo show aliens inside or not? By the way I'm not accusing the doctor who saw the aliens of lying or hoaxing, nor of necessarily hallucinating, at least I don't consider pareidolia the same phenomenon as hallucination and in this case I expect there might have been minor variations in the brightness of the UFO which might have led to his interpretation through pareidolia rather than hallucination. There were some people around the doctor and he apparently influenced them to also see the aliens inside the sphere, though others not in contact with the doctor apparently did not report the aliens inside, just the UFO.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

So it is possible that an event that is extraordinary to a group can also manifest differenty to each individual and each person can be influenced by what the other sees!
In the army when training at night you are taught to not stare into the one place for to long and your eyes must always be scanning, if you stare into one space to long your mind creates shapes from the darkness, add fear or other heightened energies in to the group and these "visions" become more tangible, there is so much we cannot measure in regards to sounds, pressure, frequencies, magnetic fields etc and how they interact with our personal and collective consciousnessess. There is perhaps another universe layered over us that interacts with ours on a level we are "unaware" of, Untill a glitch or connection is made in certain moment s that cause a paranormal effect.
The other universe scenario can explain a lot scientifically like, wheres the dark matter and I'm sure they say there should be more gravity.

I feel when you think about skin walker ranch and the events of point pleasant and the famous Mothman and the peculiarities surrounding that area and time frame, could be attributed to a rip in the veil so to speak where entities of another universe were able to pass between the two.

When looking for answers to a multitude of paranormal instances of many different types, do we look for different reasons for each, or do we try and find 1 that fits all.

Perosonally i think 1 to fit all.

Still not sure which one though.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Most people would concur, yes, the brain tends to fill
in.

In my own encounter, the thing that was most amazing was the
perception of rivets.

I saw rivets when the 'craft' seemed overhead.

And I saw rivets when the 'craft' was disappearing
over the horizon.

The rivets never changed in apparent size.

Since the whole summoning thing was an experiment,
I remembered to follow my test protocol, and I closed
my eyes.

The image of the 'craft' disappeared when my eyes
were closed, of course that proved nothing.. as if
my mind was being controlled, the causitive agency
could have ceased the mind control to give the
false impression there was an actual image.. or
conversely of course , my unconscious mind, if
I was merely deluding myself could have done
the same.

but I would like to point out, that NONE and I
mean NONE of what I experience was even
remotely ANYTHING that I had wanted to occur.

The exact opposite.

Whatever I perceived was NOT fantasy wish
fulfillment, as I wanted NONE of the things..
I did NOT want things to unfold as they did.
but they did anyway.

The 15 minutes of feeling an electrical field
surround my neighborhood -- not wanted.

Things in my house acting like 'static electricity'
I did not want.

Being (apparenlty) accosted by a 'being' in my
house I did not want.

Being paralyzed, being only able breathe in
a shallow manner and move my eyes..for
10-15 minutes I did not want.

NONE Of my biases and preconceptions about
How I could control the process, and what I
would see happened.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

Most people would concur, yes, the brain tends to fill
in.

In my own encounter, the thing that was most amazing was the
perception of rivets.

I saw rivets when the 'craft' seemed overhead.

And I saw rivets when the 'craft' was disappearing
over the horizon.

The rivets never changed in apparent size.

This is emotional for me......my age was 9 at the time....your description is now taking me back to what I wanted to forget.

wow... my experience took it further....I have to stop now

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Take care of yourself first and foremost.

"UFOs" and 1/2 of modern life are PURE BS
and entirely optional.

Why is “it” making people think they are seeing a space ship “Craft” if the UFO is some sort of energy entity and nothing from outer space. What are they trying to do?

a reply to: 38181

Its complicated.

I'd say that 95% of 'UFOs' are misperceptions and misidentifications and fraud.

The remaining 5% is much debated.

Kev

a reply to: OutTheBox

Yep the Eagle River Cases is one of 'those' head scratching stories. A bit like the Kelly Goblins and even maybe the Bob Taylor case. Untouched by American military men, and others hyping up the stories, like other UFO cases we could mention down the years. So also free from expansion and embellishment. But yes its very bizarre.

The basic story is that a small egg or saucer shaped craft landed around 11am on Joe Simonton's property in Wisconsin. A hatch opened and a humanoid gestured he needed water. Joe filled a jug like object with water and noticed 2 other similar humanoids inside the object cooking pancakes. Which they offered in return.



I checked out the Project Blue Book reports : Eagle River UFO 1961 Blue Book Files. They are frustratingly badly organised. But the bullet point would be.

■ One investigator said Simontonon "appeared quite sincere to me, did not appear to be the perpetrator of a hoax."

■ An Air Force psychiatrist believed that Simonton had suffered a hallucination and subsequent delusion and that "experiences of this type, hallucinations followed by delusion, are not at all uncommon and especially in rural communities.".

■ No evidence of a landing was found by investigators.

■ Judge Frank Carter [a NICAP member] was suspected of influencing the witness and wanted a seminar on the event. NICAP refused to analyse the pancakes for some reason?

■ Joe Simonto's accuracy and consistency was however questioned...



But the existence of the pancakes proved it wasn't a dream or hallucination. Although I don't see why myself

In conclusion it was felt that a case like this was likely down to mental aberration and the influence of the Judge.



The analysis of the pancake produced fat, starch, buckwheat hulls, wheat bran and soya bean. Entirely something from Earth.

Certainly an odd one. Possibly a hoax. In the 50s and 60s people were still telling stories and faking photos. Reports of aliens were still very human like.

Or maybe a mental aberration as concluded in Blue Book?

We can't say that for certain. There is not a enough data to resolve it. So it remains unknown.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You are missing the “face to face with ‘The Other’” side of the story.

It is not “fun”. And all that bravado talk of “if I ever saw an alien”... is the real BS.

And you cannot rationalize what you are going to do if it happens to you. This is true “fight or flight” lizard-brain existence. And good luck on rationalizing that!

This is the realm of epistemology and what we can know (or explain in language. This is especially true with experience and when what [you] remember about events is only emotional then there are some serious issues).

A logical mind will, at the very least, minimize, an emotional argument (if not outright ignore it). That is a very big source of contention.

An abduction experience leaves one with missing time and a missing memory of being face to face with the Other and all they have are emotions.

Until it happens to you... I think that you are missing your target a bit short (not that it negates anything that you have said. Just that you have not been complete. Yeah, empathy is hard for those who haven’t been’there’, yeah, I know. But some of us don’t want these memories, and lack there of, and remember the feeling of horror. Just saying).

Great conversation!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I understand. I experienced some trauma when
I was paralyzed and completely at the mercy
of what attacked me (while I was walking to
the sliding glass door, while eating cheetos
or whatever I was munching on).. this was not
a sleep disturbance!

Interestingly of course, and it was the huge ass
clue (my encounter was filled with huge ass clues)
the 'angry dwarf' could have killed me at will..
but it only wanted to terrorize me.

It wanted my full attention, with my conscious
rational mind shut down.

and it got it.

That's nearly always the clue.

A few people have perhaps been killed by 'UFOs',
but the number is very small / contested.

There was that one case of a 'human mutilation'
like a cattle mutilation.

Ugh.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Have you wrote anything about these experiences you had? Was this the reason you have been away from the site for a while?
Sounds like proper ATS material.

a reply to: OutTheBox

I first left ATS when I was (apparently) getting
death threats, and possibly having all my
personal electronic gear "Bennewitzed" or
'possessed'. My wife's electronics too.

I may like discussing this stuff, but I don't
want my wife to die over it.

It came right after I said a certain thing I
should not have, dealing with TTSA/Earthtech.

I know that these days, much of what I said
a few years ago is accepted as not so controversial
anymore,

but back then, my saying what I did about some folks
was like my lobbing a grenade launcher at baby jesus
in his manger, to a whole lot of folks.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Fair enough Kev, respect!

And if you ever want to slip me some info I will throw grenades, TNT and fKing molotov cocktails at the Bay B geeZus... And his manager.

a reply to: OutTheBox

Naw.

Everyone has the right to make choices, and
to learn from the consequences.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Naw!! Did you say that cause I'm Scottish or is that also "no" where you're from?

Made me laugh.

Don't mind me btw, I'm just looking for attention.