Why do People See What They See?

I'm not intending this to be some big info dump on my part;
rather I'd like this to be a place where this very important,
but stringently ignored topic can be discussed.

I'm not wishing to shove any of my strong 'opinions' down
anyone's throat. I really want a discussion.

There are a few very big questions that seldom get asked,
just like down through the ages, the most important
questions seldom get asked, as folks tend to wrap
themselves in a bubble of assumption when their sense
of self / world-view is threatened.

Let's start with a thought experiment; let's say humans
invented easy/cheap/compact fusion power, and a good
collection of star ship systems, so that we could reliably
visit relatively nearby star systems, that for purposes
of this thought experiment are civilized with intelligent
organic beings.

Would humans build 7 billion different types of spacecraft,
some purple, some as large as the moon, some that look like
horses, some that look like a tuna sandwich?

or would they build the same basic model?

They would build the same basic model.

When the aliens on that nearby world saw the human
ships, what would they see?

One might think, that yes, there could be some bias,
but overall, one might imagine they would see some
relatively boring hunk of metal.

They wouldn't see humans offering them a pancake,
asking for a drink of water in return, would they?

We aren't weird quantum/energy creatures.. we are
lumps of dirty water, with relatively simple tools.
(actually we are more than that.. but that's a
different topic.. we can go with this for now)

Or yes, maybe they would see all the same garbage
we see..

Next thought experiment.

If 'ships' have been visiting us for thousands of years,
then why in one age do people see horses and riders
in the sky.. flying sheep.. faries.. demons.. and now
people see 'ships'.

If it's always been ships.. why haven't people always
seen ships? (the ancient aliens arguments fall apart
if you study any of them.. so the retort that yes,
there was a ship in this pyramid wall, or whatever
they ALWAYS fall apart).

Oh sure, you can mangle the narrative if you want to..
saying that the aliens in their ships use holographic
systems to cloak themselves..

but if that's the case..

why have their been so many cases, where two people
stand shoulder to shoulder, where one person sees
on thing, while the other person might see nothing
or something 100% different?

Holograms don't work that way..

If one insists on the ships and beings thing, at this point
you'd have to postulate global-level simultaneous
mechanical telepathy.. so everyone in the world might
see something different simultaneously.

Does that make sense?

Now.. there's lots to discuss on this topic, I'm not going
to try for some huge multi-part wall of text.

Personally I'm open to any response that postulates
something reasonable.. and in fact... if someone were
to say that we are experiencing 'many worlds bleed-through'
and yes, those ships were really 'shippish' we could certainly
discuss that. I think it would fall apart, but we could discuss
that.

Thanks for your participation!

Because perception is entirely subjective, and because when people see something traumatic - like a bloody great big silent object in the sky above you, or a face/figure that isn't human, the brain tries to make sense of it in a manner that it can understand.

That is where things like PTSD and other mental/psychological issues have their root.

So, in the age of airships, people describe airships. In the age of rockets, people describe rockets, in the age of jets and stealth, people describe triangles and black objects. When the term 'saucers skipping on water' was coined, people started seeing saucers, because their mind rationalised it that way.

Similarly, people describe goblins, fairies, leprechauns etc in history.

Imagine being one of the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon, and seeing a helicopter. You would have no idea what it was, where it came from or why it was there. So to you it is a giant dragonfly. Your neighbouring tribe might describe a giant bee. Another a hummingbird etc etc. Because that is all you can equate it to.

Also - given the age of the universe, its entirely possible that people may not be seeing one race's craft. Things do differ - you only have to look at Western, Russian and Chinese aircraft designs - they are similar because they follow certain principles, but they do not all conform to the same single design.

Whatever/whoever is behind the phenomena may be manipulating what people see, or how they perceive it. It may be at least in some cases there is no physical object, just a "suggestion' placed in the observers mind.

I believe at least some of the reported sightings are not nuts and bolts craft

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well at a guess all they were doing back in the day was explaining best they could what a ship was by calling it a roaring pig, it probably made a similar sound as it roared overhead and some ships are the shape of giant pigs if that's all you got to reference it by

We can see anything out there either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as timelines jumps are achievable in the correct set of circumstances assuming one is close to or on one of the super energy highways that criss cross Planet Earth and carry all these groups be it what we falsely perceive as the past or the future. It might just be a cock up by the designers of the Planet Earth Experience game that we can sometimes see this technology as it wizzes by and indeed in some circumstance interacts with us but suddenly disappears as everything gos back to normal with our experiences

Too many
incidents
witnesses & multiple
different shape craft
different sized craft
ISO & UFO
= multiple race craft and beings from multiple locations/times/dimensions including earth

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Exactly Things are going on around us all the time we just can't see it goi9ng on with our limited eyesight / senses while even pooch sees things and we know they are seeing that something

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Probes.

Lots of probes.

"Life" is far too self important to take unnecessary risks if a machine can be used instead. We do all the time and moreso as we (ha ha!) evolve.

"First Contact" would be a little rover perhaps.

Down it plops, out it rolls, and starts digging and probing....on the front lawn of a house perhaps...lol

Arrested before the first scoop was sampled.

Walleeeeeee!

originally posted by: neformore
So, in the age of airships, people describe airships. In the age of rockets, people describe rockets, in the age of jets and stealth, people describe triangles and black objects. When the term 'saucers skipping on water' was coined, people started seeing saucers, because their mind rationalised it that way.

"Saucer"-shaped sightings do pre-date Kenneth Arnold's 1947 sighting by some margin, even going back to the Middle Ages, although the name "flying saucer" was first coined in 1890 to describe clay pigeon shooting targets, and in 1930 it was used to describe a likely meteor seen over Texas and Oklahoma. Some interesting info here, and it's worth checking some of Karl's excellent work on ATS about the topic.

However, the hacks' infamous mis-reporting of Arnold's 'skipping across water like a saucer' (paraphrasing) certainly led to a predictable deluge of public sightings in its wake, where the wheat obviously needs to be sorted from the chaff.

Interestingly, triangular-shaped UFOs also predate military stealth programs in the 70s by many decades - another point usually forgotten, and again, I can recommend researching ATS for fascinating info on that.

Nice thread by KPB; I look forward to everyone's thoughts if they can tear themselves away from the Election for a while.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Indeed - great points - but I guess the key of my point is more in terms of the wider conscious because of media availability.

I think its a combination of many factors, particularly in terms of variations because of multiple civilisations.

a reply to: neformore

Did ancient Celtics, who saw 'Faeries' have PTSD?

IMHO PTSD doesn't necessarily factor in.

A lot of people, across multiple countries,
from the British Isles to Iceland would set
out food/drink for 'brownies'.. they obviously
were not in a state of PTSD, if they were
'summoning them' with food and drink..
they liked them...

Let's further postulate, that the aliens from my thought experiment
had met other alien civilizations many times, and in fact welcomed
them with open arms.

With no PTSD, no noticeable fear about aliens, would those aliens
see a simple metal ship with simple bipedal humans walking out
of it?

I'd suggest they would.

So given that scenario,

we are not in the same situation that they are,

either we are so full of fear and 'PTSD' that we all see random
stuff based on fear and stuff we pull out of our unconscious
minds,

Or perhaps what is seen is not 'normal matter' / 'normal energy'
at all.. some very funky thing, our brains can't process... and
thus not 'ships' in any normal sense.

It doesn't compute.

Believing in ships is a VAST oversimplification IMHO.

It's a conclusion that's not testable (we've never had a ship
to study), it has no prediction power (one of the elements
of scientific reality).

It gets us nothing.

Likewise of course just saying 'its some weird energy/qunatum
thing' is not currently testable.. BUT it's possible to make
predictions.. and a number of those predictions might hold
up more often than not.

For example, when there's a true 'high strangeness' event,
I can generally predict a number of things, and if people
are honest and accurate in their reporting, there ARE
common elements.

With the ship model, there are NO common elements.

That's my take on it.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

It seems Kenneth Arnold may have been an occultist.
Did you know that?

Now, as to seeing 'triangles' I concur.. according to
David Marler, people have been seeing triangles
AND OTHER simple geometric shapes for a very
long time.

A nonverbal unconscious mind certain is quite familiar
with simple geometric shapes.

For the record, i'm very open to the notion that the first
major species colonized the entire Universe, and yes,
at first used something resembling ships.

I'm not against the notion of ships.. I love Star Trek and
Babylon 5, etc.

I think it's entirely possible that WE will be the 'ship-building'
aliens within 100 years.. though I suspect those ships will be
manned by machine intelligences, not humans.

but given that you can 'summon' UFOs, just like anything else out
of mythology... Crowley did it.. I did it.. various people do it..
hell maybe we all do it..

That either means I have terrible mental illness, that many of
us have terrible mental illness.. or the (I hate this word)
"phenomenon" is a bit more unusual than we feel comfortable
with.

Or both of course ;-)

Changes in what people are seeing can be an attempt by "the others" to teach us something.
Exactly what the lesson is about is up for debate.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

It seems Kenneth Arnold may have been an occultist.
Did you know that?

Yes, to a greater or lesser extent. I authored a comprehensive thread last year about Arnold's thoughts and philosophy after 1947. His final conclusion seemed to be that the UFOs he saw were 'spirits of the dead' - which is reasonably mind-boggling!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

Believing in ships is a VAST oversimplification IMHO.

It's a conclusion that's not testable (we've never had a ship
to study), it has no prediction power (one of the elements
of scientific reality).

It gets us nothing.

I instinctively agree - cue howls of dismay from the Lazarian crowd - at least in terms of ships arriving from Space in the traditional manner, although the esoteric nature of the Inter-Dimensional hypothesis also gets us nothing for logistical reasons.

One of the most fascinating aspects of my wife's urban sighting of a huge black triangle was the overriding feeling that the object "did not belong" there, hovering over a recreation field at 11pm, covering two-thirds of the visible night sky, so presumably also quite low in the sky. It "didn't make sense" to her, and if she hadn't witnessed it with a friend, is sure she would have dismissed it as a daydream/dream. Even details such as a pencil-beam of light seemingly searching its surroundings pale in comparison to this instinct that it did "not belong" - as if it would have simply faded in and out of existence. Sadly, they were too terrified to hang around and ran away, so the object's 'exit' is a mystery. The lack of any reports from the area added to the notion that they had imagined it, but she is adamant it was a real event.

An Inter-Dimensional 'visit'? Or something more mundane? I can't jump to any conclusions and neither can she. She had no interest in UFOs, and if it really was 'alien', her general attitude is "So what? It's a big universe after all" - which would leave many on ATS shrieking in dismay that it's "IMPORTANT!" Perhaps she has a point to some extent. Perhaps what we all love most of all is the sense of solving a Mystery, even if the solution does indeed prove rather mundane.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I'm not a fan of the IDH either.

I've been calling my take on things analog/digital theory
for a while, based on a number of things, including the
"Paperclip Maximizer Paradox" (see thread on that).

As for your wife's encounter... yes.. a big old BTUFO
in the middle of town, ONE WOULD THINK would get
some notice.. but nope.. it's so fined tuned..

it could apparently be so fine tuned, that only a
small dog would see it, as he was accidentally
swallowing the invasion fleet (DA REF).

Kev

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

"Yes, to a greater or lesser extent. I authored a comprehensive thread last year about Arnold's thoughts and philosophy after 1947. His final conclusion seemed to be that the UFOs he saw were 'spirits of the dead' - which is reasonably mind-boggling!"

Could you pass me that link?

As it so happens, I know EXACTLY why he came to that conclusion..
and it's not as stupid a conclusion as one might think. Not all the way
there.. but in my own personal experience.. I know exactly what he
was getting at.

Did you know, for example, that the 'spirits of the dead' and 'fae spirits'
were fairly conflated in your countries mythology?

I'd recommend you read "A Trojan Feast" by J. Cutchin, if you want to
learn more.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I'm not a fan of the IDH either.

I've been calling my take on things analog/digital theory
for a while, based on a number of things, including the
"Paperclip Maximizer Paradox" (see thread on that).

I'll check out that thread, thanks.

Also, you may have missed the edit to my last post about Arnold (EDIT: oh, you did see it, lol). If you're desperate, it may be worth reading my 2019 thread about dear 'ole Arnold's later thoughts and surprising conclusions.

Link: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'd recommend you read "A Trojan Feast" by J. Cutchin, if you want to
learn more.

Thanks again! No time today, but I'll dig further into that area of thought tomorrow.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

'Reality' is a team effort.. I look forward to reading
your thoughts. Don't ever denigrate yourself with that
mostly fake British Politeness.. oh hell.. go on and
keep doing that.. it's charming.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

'Reality' is a team effort.. I look forward to reading
your thoughts. Don't ever denigrate yourself with that
mostly fake British Politeness.. oh hell.. go on and
keep doing that.. it's charming

HaHa! Trust me, Kev, there is nothing fake about it; many of us are really like that, most of the time. Two countries separated by a common language etc...?

We need Mirageman in here to support my assertion.