Absolute Proof the Earth is Round NOT Flat!

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

Is it wrong to say that science does not 100% know for sure the shape of Earth ?

Yes.

In fact, you don't need science, you can write your own story to experience the curvature of the earth if you have a vehicle with an AM radio.

The behavior of terrestrial AM radio (all radio, really) proves it. Anyone can experience the Earth's curve with an AM radio while driving a car away from the source.

Even the weakest AM broadcast station (thousands of watts) can reach thousands of miles in the 1 MHz+/- radio spectrum with their high power and advanced vertical antenna broadcasting their radio wave tangental to the Earth. During the day, radio waves in the AM spectrum are line-of-sight. More on what happens at night is below.

Consider the State of Florida and AM Radio: In the US, approximately 116 spots are available for broadcast stations on the AM frequency band between 540 and 1700 kHz (FCC allocates frequencies for AM stations in 10 kHz steps). Florida has 588 AM radio stations, with the "flattest" topography in the nation. Looking at just one spot on the dial, four 10KW+ AM radio stations are using 980 kHz: WRNE (Gulf Breeze), WTOT (Marianna), WTPA (Pompano Beach), and WNNR (Jacksonville, 50KW+).

If the Earth were flat, the AM dial in Florida would be a mad cacophony of chaos, with an average of 4+ stations broadcasting at every point on the dial (there are seven at 1230kHz). The Earth is a sphere, so AM radio stations begin to fade out at about 50 miles, as their wave rises above you as you lose line-of-sight beyond the horizon.

This page, Florida Public Radio Emergency Network (www.floridapublicmedia.org...), documents the radius of coverage of various Florida radio stations -- a radius of coverage that exists because the Earth is a globe -- involved in communicating important weather emergency information. Florida needs multiple AM stations for the emergency network to ensure the entire state is serviced; because the earth is a globe.

As a former licensed Ham Radio dude, experienced in long-range communications with just 100 watts, I relied on the earth being a globe, at night, to reach distant countries on the other side of the globe.

Long Distances of LF/HF radio waves are possible at night because the Earth is a globe. At night, radio waves in the AM spectrum can bounce off the ionosphere (when not charged by the sun) and back to the Earth. Because of this effect, many AM stations must dramatically reduce power to not interfere with other stations in other states.

So all you need to do is jump in your car, tune to your favorite AM talk-radio blather station, then drive in the opposite direction. Depending on their transmission power, you'll lose most or all of the signal after about 50 miles, as the line of site signal rises above you due to the curvature of the earth. And depending on your state, you'll begin to hear distant stations become more clear.

You can write your own true story of the globe earth with no special equipment.

a reply to: Lazy88

Care to explain, how science is never a 100% sure thing :
yet we are 100% sure that we are flying through space, at hundreds of thousands of mph, on a spheroid ?

Where do we draw the line ?

Just like a working-system works, with or without us 100% understanding it :
let us also look at our more realistic levels of understanding.

Where do we derive our " knowledge ? " from ?

Please investigate knowledge and beliefs.

I do not believe in a flat earth, nor a ball-earth, nor a simulation, nor whatever.

Do you believe in something else, and why ?


Beliefs in a flat-earth, or a not flat-earth.
Please explain you beliefs, and they are welcomed here.
We are investigating beliefs here.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
Care to explain, how science is never a 100% sure thing :
yet we are 100% sure that we are flying through space, at hundreds of thousands of mph, on a spheroid ?

Where do we draw the line ?

Because science isn't just one thing, it is the investigation of many things, which means there is research into hundreds or maybe even thousands of things.

Some things have been figured out and some are still being worked on.

The earth is a somewhat spherical body, like the other somewhat spherical bodies observed to be travelling through space.

ETA: I want to say it doesn't matter to me either way, and I'm guessing you might feel the same. What I don't get is the basis for the lie.

We have one camp saying we were lied to, but why? What is there to gain from saying earth is round and not flat?

Let's not mince words, the only die hard flat earthers are religious people pushing the firmament angle. That is it.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Lazy88

Care to explain, how science is never a 100% sure thing :
yet we are 100% sure that we are flying through space, at hundreds of thousands of mph, on a spheroid ?

Where do we draw the line ?

Just like a working-system works, with or without us 100% understanding it :
let us also look at our more realistic levels of understanding.

Where do we derive our " knowledge ? " from ?

Please investigate knowledge and beliefs.

I do not believe in a flat earth, nor a ball-earth, nor a simulation, nor whatever.

Do you believe in something else, and why ?


Beliefs in a flat-earth, or a not flat-earth.
Please explain you beliefs, and they are welcomed here.
We are investigating beliefs here.

Science is not based on religious beliefs or beliefs in general. You are keep making erroneous statements.

It doesn't matter what your beliefs are and the shape of the earth or the shape of planets is not a matter of beliefs and revelation. Same is true about everything else we encounter in science in every day life.

I don't think you can convince the audience by arguing you dont believe in flat earth or non flat earth. It's a rather disingenuous argument made by a flat earther/flat mooner.

We don't investigate beliefs here or anywhere else. If we were then there would have been no point in trying to establish facts, evidence, and develop the tools to progress science.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Lazy88

Care to explain, how science is never a 100% sure thing :

Not my comment.

Which has nothing to do with flat earth totally fails as a model.

Why don’t you draw how a lunar or solar eclipse would work on a flat earth if you think flat earth science 100 percent can explain these two reoccurring events.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Lazy88


I do not believe in a flat earth, nor a ball-earth, nor a simulation, nor whatever.

So you don’t take the time to believe in anything. And are to lazy to make actual observations and ponder how such things occur.

While I have produced demonstrable evidence the earth is spherical.



While you have presented in no way how any model that isn’t spherical earth would be more useful to me.

Spherical earth a working model that makes accurate predictions about our natural world.

Flat earth, a useless model concerning the movements of our solar system that fails to make accurately predictions concerning our natural world.

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

"Why can we hold that science is an ongoing experiment : yet some things are completely unquestionable ?"

Because some things are unquestionable?

a reply to: TheSkepticGuy23

Thanks for your explanations, and I have learned some interesting concepts, to bring to my meditations.

Specifically : I will be investigating, within myself, if I am understanding different phenomena, but using the same explanation.

Sorry if my posts get folks riled-up.

I'm not selling anything, nor trying to convince anyone, of anything.

I'm examining whatever beliefs may exist within myself, by examining beliefs in others.

Although I may have landed at the wrong airport, LoL !!

a reply to: daskakik

We've been lied-to and deceived our whole lives.

We all sat in grade two, colouring nativity scenes, painting Easter eggs, listening with amazement to stories of fairies and whatnot.

For most of us : those threads unraveled fairly early.
It seems to me, that some then just stopped picking at threads, to see what else may unravel.

I'm pulling at threads for my own interest.
I do not wish to convince you, or anyone else, of my thoughts.

At the moment : I'm interested in the thought process, behind the ball-Earth believers.

The scientific-method, uses a best-guess methodology, to bring us explanations and understandings.
But everyone agrees that is an ongoing process, and so we never take those explanations and understandings to be absolute truth.
A scientific truth, is not an absolute truth.
It is temporary.

How this leads to folks saying it is 100% sure that we live on a spheroid, does not fit my understanding of science.

Why is there no room, for anyone to doubt ?

Would it not be more accurate to say that science is mostly sure that we're on a ball ?

So what's wrong with me saying that I'm not sure about the whole globe story ?

a reply to: Venkuish1

It's a heck of an experience, to come-up against the walls, the limitations of such a massive structure as " Science ".

But for those that poke enough, eventually, cracks do appear.

When we can see beyond, then we can more clearly see the walls.

Beyond the limitations : yes, we investigate beliefs, and many other phenomena, in this whatever human experience.

Are you not participating in this thread, because you are interested in other beliefs ( FE ) ?

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

How this leads to folks saying it is 100% sure that we live on a spheroid, does not fit my understanding of science.

Then your understanding of science is wrong. Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Globe Earth in Ptolemaic Egypt in 240BC. Science has refined ancient measurements, but has generally agreed ever since.

Why is there no room, for anyone to doubt ?

Because there isn't any room to doubt well-established facts that have been proven and accepted for more than 2,000 years.

a reply to: Lazy88

I agree that spherical earth is a working model.
That doesn't mean it's an absolute fact, to me, but it does to others.
That's ok with me.

Dark-matter and dark energy are also current working models, but many suspect that we will eventually discover, some, possibly many other phenomena, at play.

Could you imagine a person wanting to argue that dark-matter and dark-energy are 100% absolute scientific truth ?
That's a belief, a story.

Thank-you for being open to help me investigating beliefs.

But please stop trying to turn me into a FE'er. I'm not, okay ?

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
We've been lied-to and deceived our whole lives.

But not about everything.

A scientific truth, is not an absolute truth.
It is temporary.

How this leads to folks saying it is 100% sure that we live on a spheroid, does not fit my understanding of science.

Seems to me it is your understanding of science that is flawed.

Some things have been figured out, the earth being a spheroid is one of them.

Why is there no room, for anyone to doubt ?

Would it not be more accurate to say that science is mostly sure that we're on a ball ?

So what's wrong with me saying that I'm not sure about the whole globe story?

There is nothing wrong with any of that but then people ask to see the proof and what the FEs provide falls flat.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Lazy88

I agree that spherical earth is a working model.
That doesn't mean it's an absolute fact, to me, but it does to others.
That's ok with me.

Dark-matter and dark energy are also current working models, but many suspect that we will eventually discover, some, possibly many other phenomena, at play.

Could you imagine a person wanting to argue that dark-matter and dark-energy are 100% absolute scientific truth ?
That's a belief, a story.

Thank-you for being open to help me investigating beliefs.

But please stop trying to turn me into a FE'er. I'm not, okay ?

Is not just a working model but a fact that you seem to doubt a lot without any evidence but with irrelevant whataboutism.

Science doesn't investigate beliefs and your understanding of science is flawed. You pretend you care about the truth but if you do then you wouldn't disregard facts and try to push indirectly your flat earth beliefs or flat moon beliefs.

As for dark matter and dark energy it's best not go to that topic if you don't know what they are. Some of your fellow creationists and flat earthers tried in other threads and failed.

a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

"At the moment : I'm interested in the thought process, behind the ball-Earth believers."

But you missed quite a lot in school I suppose. Same is true for creationists who dismiss and disregard facts in favour of their own beliefs.

Earth is an oblate spheroid and this is a fact (not a belief)

originally posted by: TheSkepticGuy23
a reply to: KnowItAllKnowNothin

How this leads to folks saying it is 100% sure that we live on a spheroid, does not fit my understanding of science.

The your understanding of science is wrong. Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Globe Earth in Ptolemaic Egypt in 240BC. Science has refined ancient measurements, but has generally agreed ever since.

Why is there no room, for anyone to doubt ?

Because there isn't any room to doubt well-established facts that have been proven and accepted for more than 2,000 years.

I see those as beliefs, stories.
Consensus does not a truth make.

So some scientific truths are never to be doubted, but just accepted as true ?
Do you have any other examples, of such unquestionable truths ?

I guess I don't understand why one needs to stick to one story, when there are obviously stories abound ?

Heck : the the Hindu's wrote of a spherical world 5000 years ago, but they also considered the possibility
of multiverses in their philosophies and cosmologies.

Were you never interested in any concepts of multiverses, or simulation theories ?

If you don't mind : what, exactly, are you skeptical of ?

a reply to: daskakik

Where do you draw the line, between what is absolute unquestionable truth, and what is up for investigation ?

We all seem to draw that line, in a different place, on a different beach.

Those lines are clues as to our beliefs in the stories we are told.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
Where do you draw the line, between what is absolute unquestionable truth, and what is up for investigation?

I don't draw that line, everyone is free to investigate whatever they want.

What they can't do is claim they have the truth with only easily refuted proof to back up their claim.

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Lazy88

I agree that spherical earth is a working model.
That doesn't mean it's an absolute fact, to me, but it does to others.
That's ok with me.

Dark-matter and dark energy are also current working models, but many suspect that we will eventually discover, some, possibly many other phenomena, at play.

Could you imagine a person wanting to argue that dark-matter and dark-energy are 100% absolute scientific truth ?
That's a belief, a story.

Thank-you for being open to help me investigating beliefs.

But please stop trying to turn me into a FE'er. I'm not, okay ?

Is not just a working model but a fact that you seem to doubt a lot without any evidence but with irrelevant whataboutism.

Science doesn't investigate beliefs and your understanding of science is flawed. You pretend you care about the truth but if you do then you wouldn't disregard facts and try to push indirectly your flat earth beliefs or flat moon beliefs.

As for dark matter and dark energy it's best not go to that topic if you don't know what they are. Some of your fellow creationists and flat earthers tried in other threads and failed.

The bright light that we're shining on beliefs : asks why you believe that I'm a creationist and flat-earther, or flat-mooner ?

Can you not see that those are beliefs, stories ?

They are only true in one place, and that is in your mind.

Thank-you for demonstrating that.

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Lazy88

I agree that spherical earth is a working model.
That doesn't mean it's an absolute fact, to me, but it does to others.
That's ok with me.

Dark-matter and dark energy are also current working models, but many suspect that we will eventually discover, some, possibly many other phenomena, at play.

Could you imagine a person wanting to argue that dark-matter and dark-energy are 100% absolute scientific truth ?
That's a belief, a story.

Thank-you for being open to help me investigating beliefs.

But please stop trying to turn me into a FE'er. I'm not, okay ?

Is not just a working model but a fact that you seem to doubt a lot without any evidence but with irrelevant whataboutism.

Science doesn't investigate beliefs and your understanding of science is flawed. You pretend you care about the truth but if you do then you wouldn't disregard facts and try to push indirectly your flat earth beliefs or flat moon beliefs.

As for dark matter and dark energy it's best not go to that topic if you don't know what they are. Some of your fellow creationists and flat earthers tried in other threads and failed.

The bright light that we're shining on beliefs : asks why you believe that I'm a creationist and flat-earther, or flat-mooner ?

Can you not see that those are beliefs, stories ?

They are only true in one place, and that is in your mind.

Thank-you for demonstrating that.

You sound like a flat earther by pretending you care about the truth and arguing that earth being a sphere is just a 'working model' when in reality it's a fact.

You can doubt anything you like but you need evidence and not platitudes and whataboutism that we have been lied all the way through and there is a massive conspiracy theory behind every scientific discovery or even basic information.

You have put together the ball-shape earth model and the flat-shape earth model. Unless you are a flat earther or someone who denies facts I can't see who else is going to do what you did.