God Doesnt Exist

To be fair, you need to define what you mean by "god".

I reckon you are trying to exclude yourself and your surroundings when giving the definition? Exclude that energy that holds this computer screen, the city, the country, the nation, nature, earth, moon, solar system, Milky Way, millions of other expanding galaxies, together?

Yea, exclude all that and the author of the thread may be correct.

God Doesnt Exist

Nature and reality are congruent words, nature is reality, reality is nature. All that exists is real, and all that is real exists. Everything that is real is governed by nature, it is nature. From every dimension, to every black hole, hypernova, solar flare and gravity. If something does not exist, it is not real. Therefore if it exists, it becomes part of reality, ergo nature.

So if something "supernatural," were to exist, by its own definition is illogical and non-existant, it would no longer be "supernatural," merely natural. That which does not exist is intangible [I.e. A concept] It cannot exist, being logically impossible.

Reality = A / Nature = B | Ergo: A = B, B = A

In order for somthing to cause itself, it must preceed itself. Nothing preceeds itself. Therefore, it is illogical for somthing to cause itself. Q.E.D.

If God exists, that means that it is part of nature. If it's part of nature, it is not supernatural. Also, as something which exists, it cannot be inconsistent. There is nothing that is tangible that is inconsistent.

For example, A being which is omnipotent must be illogical. Can a God make a rock bigger than he can lift? If so, then he would be unable to lift it. If not, he wouldnt be able to create one bigger than he could not lift.

Therefore god would be bound by the laws of logic. I.e., God is a natural entity which had a beginning and cannot do the impossible. A "God" that had a beginning, could not do the impossible, sounds alot like me, a human being. Nor would this God be omniscient, omnipresent... God(s) Can only exist as a concept, like invisible pink unicorns.

Through all of the contradictions in the bibles, and illogical claims, such as Jesus rising from the dead, meaning millions of people worship a 2,000 year old jew zombie nailed to two peices of wood... Magical trees, talking snakes, etc... God simply does not exist.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Why would anyone worship a deity that supposedly has the power to stop 40,000 children from dying of starvation every day, yet doesnt?

It was a picture of a black woman in Northern Africa. They were experiencing a devastating drought. And she was holding her dead baby in her arms and looking up to heaven with the most forlorn expression. I looked at it and thought, "Is it possible to believe that there is a loving or caring Creator when all this woman needed was rain?" [Charles Templeton, former evangelist, referring to a picture in Time Magazine, when asked by Lee Strobel when he realized he lost his faith]

Think of how many people have died for an "all loving" deity... Just in the christian religion alone! The holocaust, the inquisition, crusades, waco texas, salem witch trials, massacre of wounded knee, trail of tears, cortes and montezumo, the list goes on and on.

Were any deities listening to the prayers of a small boy asking for help while he was being molested by a priest?

You must consider that since a casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith proves nothing. It proves everything equally, from 2+2=5 to "God exists because I have faith." It's an inane concept without justification. Two hands working do more than an infinite amount clasped in prayer.

Wake up people, Gods dont exist!

How do you know that "God" doesn't exist? Did you knock on his door and find him not there? Did a little birdy whisper it in your ear whilst out fishing one day?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
LOL!
The guy hasn't posted here in two years, yet the thread lives on! That is funny.

I have an idea. As you seem to be his spokesman, and, as the thread started with the assertion that God does NOT exist, you prove that to be true.

As far as why God "allows" people to die by the hundred's of thousands, you have to take a bit of responsibility upon yourself, as well as all the rest of us. It was not His intentions that we live this was. This is not what He wanted for us. The death, the misery, the evil; we invited it when we rebelled.
How we can spit in His face and at the same time wonder why there is death and destruction amazes me. It's like children acting up all day, and then expecting to be rewarded with a new toy when the family goes shopping. Seriously.

How do you know that "God" didn't intend for us to live this way or that way....did you read it in a book??? Did he personally hold an audience with you and specifically explain that to you???

My point is that you folks spend to much time trying to convince each other of the existence or non-existence of "God". Ever heard of the phrase, "To each, their own"???

God really exists

Take three people an atheist, agnostic and a believer
They all have $1000 and decide to go to the race course

A man approaches them (unknow to them that its God) and he tell them that a horse is going to win
The horse is a 1:1000 shot at winning

The atheist takes no notice and walks away with his money
The agnostic cant make up his mind and decides to bet on the favourite
The believer uses his faith and places all his money on the 1:1000

The races finishes and amazingly the 1:1000 shot wins

The atheist still has $1000
The agnostic has lost all his money
But the believer has a million dollars

It all has to do with Faith plus knowing when to listen to the right person ie God

In order for something to cause itself, it must precede itself. Nothing precedes itself. Therefore, it is illogical for something to cause itself. Q.E.D.

The concept of defining an entity which has "caused" itself has been explored in computer science by way of "lazy evaluation" or "lazy initialization." Basically, you have a placeholder which becomes defined the moment you use it or access it (as needed, which is why it's called lazy). Thus, you could easily place logic that causes the entity to define itself after a period of time (like a timer to self awareness).

But the above doesn't even matter.

For something to cause itself it does not have to exist in complete form prior to its existence. Consider the common cold as a collection of virii. The common cold exists in pieces prior to materialization in one particular human. But it causes itself by accumulation of virii and attacking the human body. The idea here is pieces of a whole can work together to make that whole. Therefore, it can be said that the something can cause itself and yet precede itself. It's all how the pieces work/evolve.

Therefore the God that exists within your statement is an evolving, all encompassing God, because God is the process of the Universe evolving.

The Satanic Bible says something to the effect that God is the force that drives all aspects of nature and being, and that it is indiscriminate amoung the things in nature. That is to say God is the force of our creation and being and not the deity that is personified by the many organised religions today. NO, I'm not a Satan worshipper! But I still think the idea is relevant and profound as it would explain a lot of things. I've often wondered if God and Satan didn't simply represent the light and dark sides of man; and that God was created in our image instead of the we created in His. For all I know God and Satan are one in the same (I do realise there are many texts that dispute this!). It's just a thought.

from a single omnipotent God to bits and pieces of nature. Would anyone really expect to hear anything different from a Satanic Bible?

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 7-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
from a single omnipotent God to bits and pieces of nature. Would anyone really expect to hear anything different from a Satanic Bible?

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 7-6-2005 by saint4God]

I realize the source is bias! I just felt it was an interesting idea. To be honest, most of the Satanic bible, in my humble opinion, is a bunch of [insert derrogatory comment here]. It didn't really say God was bits and pieces of nature, but the driving force behind all nature both pieces and the whole. Of course, how it could say that and turn around to personify Satan as an entity is beyond me.

Originally posted by FreeThinking1
I realize the source is bias!

I just felt it was an interesting idea. To be honest, most of the Satanic bible, in my humble opinion, is a bunch of [insert derrogatory comment here]. It didn't really say God was bits and pieces of nature, but the driving force behind all nature both pieces and the whole. Of course, how it could say that and turn around to personify Satan as an entity is beyond me.

Glad you saw that too.

Originally posted by suremapper
God really exists

Take three people an atheist, agnostic and a believer
They all have $1000 and decide to go to the race course

A man approaches them (unknow to them that its God) and he tell them that a horse is going to win
The horse is a 1:1000 shot at winning

The atheist takes no notice and walks away with his money
The agnostic cant make up his mind and decides to bet on the favourite
The believer uses his faith and places all his money on the 1:1000

The races finishes and amazingly the 1:1000 shot wins

The atheist still has $1000
The agnostic has lost all his money
But the believer has a million dollars

It all has to do with Faith plus knowing when to listen to the right person ie God

A man approaches them and says "I'm god. Give me your $1000 and I guarantee you a 1000 fold return."

The atheist recognizes this is a scam and keeps his money.

The agnostic believes it isn't possible to know whether it's a scam or not, but keeps his money just in case it is.

The believer forks over his $1000.

The end.

Originally posted by spamandham
A man approaches them and says "I'm god. Give me your $1000 and I guarantee you a 1000 fold return."

The atheist recognizes this is a scam and keeps his money.

The agnostic believes it isn't possible to know whether it's a scam or not, but keeps his money just in case it is.

The believer forks over his $1000.

The end.

The believer has to recoupe potential losses by inlisting others.. if everyone believes.. it must be true.

Originally posted by spamandham
A man approaches them and says "I'm god. Give me your $1000 and I guarantee you a 1000 fold return."

The atheist recognizes this is a scam and keeps his money.

The agnostic believes it isn't possible to know whether it's a scam or not, but keeps his money just in case it is.

The believer forks over his $1000.

The end.

What does a believer need a $1000 for anyway? 80+- years of life and it's useless dust.

I guess ya'll missed my post:

"The money grubbin' church..."
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Hope to see you there.

Originally posted by riley
The believer has to recoupe potential losses by inlisting others.. if everyone believes.. it must be true.

Who cares what anyone else believes? I've never been one to follow the crowd. Ask God.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by riley
The believer has to recoupe potential losses by inlisting others.. if everyone believes.. it must be true.

Who cares what anyone else believes? I've never been one to follow the crowd. Ask God.

But you just tried to inlist me anyway.
What makes your truth anymore truer than my own? Why do you assume that everyone who does not believe haven't had their own spiritual affirmations?

[edit on 7-6-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by riley

But you just tried to inlist me anyway.

I was hoping to encourage or possibly re-direct, not enlist. I don't have any gains for any of this.

Originally posted by riley
What makes your truth anymore truer than my own?

My answer is not going to be sufficient. That's between you and God. All I can do is point to what He has said and what I've experienced. Beyond that, I have no grounds to speak.

Originally posted by riley
Why do you assume that everyone who does not believe haven't had their own spiritual affirmations?

I'm not at a pulpit, I'm at a round table. We're here to talk about these things in a forum as equals and representatives of our experience. One thing I promise not to do is to be quiet when I have something that may help. If that becomes a problem, then kindly dismiss me from the room and we'll go our separate ways. There's an assumption, I believe, that I'm here at my accord, to talk about my will, my belief, and my wishes of the world. This is absolutely not the case. I like peace and one does not generate peace by causing disagreement. The time of peace has past for me because beyond peace is truth, so under the agreement I electronically signed here at ATS, I intend to present it as I was commissioned to do. It's work, but it's worth it.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 8-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
God doesn't exist.

Great! So why are you sitting here banging on about it? Odin doesn't exist but I don't sit around trying desperately to convince people of the fact.

Ignoring a long set of stale repetitions of very stale rationalisations, we come up with "I don't want to believe this because I find it convenient not to."



Boy, if you have a bad conscience, telling or copying lies to yourself or others won't make it better -- it will only make you less able to tell the difference between fact and fiction.

If I were you, I'd listen to your conscience.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by riley

But you just tried to inlist me anyway.

I was hoping to encourage or possibly re-direct, not enlist.

Redirect [guide] me on another road because you think mine is wrong?

Originally posted by riley
What makes your truth anymore truer than my own?

My answer is not going to be sufficient. That's between you and God.

Again.. it sounds as though you're assuming that my belief there isn't one is misguided and possibly just an 'estrangment' in a relationship with a god that I don't actually believe in.

All I can do is point to what He has said and what I've experienced. Beyond that, I have no grounds to speak.

Fair enough.. I'm just trying to 'redirect' you into accepting that there are different perspectives of the same thing ie. god/the universe. I feel a 'connection' to all in the universe [as much as I'm capable].. you may have just manifested this connection into a persona [god]. We both can't be wrong or right- ther must be a middle ground that we base our beliefs on.

I like peace and one does not generate peace by causing disagreement. The time of peace has past for me because beyond peace is truth

We differ here.. although I spend alot of time trying to discover the difference between truth and fact- I think peace is much more relevent.. but much of the time it is sacrificed for conflicting 'truths'.

Originally posted by roger_pearse
Boy, if you have a bad conscience, telling or copying lies to yourself or others won't make it better -- it will only make you less able to tell the difference between fact and fiction.

If I were you, I'd listen to your conscience.

Could you please not assume that atheists become so just because they don't want to get 'in trouble' from god? Thats ridiculous. It could always be assumed that some believe in god so they can have their conscience cleared in a confessional without having to repent to the actual people they've hurt.
The reason I don't believe in god because I find it illogical.. not because I'm feeling guilty for something.

[edit on 8-6-2005 by riley]

Is this argument still going on!?!

If god exists (ie resides within Existence) then it is also bound by the laws and rules of Existence. Since god is suppose to be all powerful, then it can not be bound by these laws. Hence if our concept of god is a reality, then that reality does not exist within the boundaries of our Existence.

Ya get it! God does not exist, because if it did it would have to be both all powerful and within Existence simultaniously which is impossible. That is not to say that god isn't; just that god is not within existence (ie exists). If it Is then it is simply somewhere else besides our Existence. Since we can not be outside of our own Existence to find this god, then the question/debate pretty much becomes pointless as something outside of our reach can not be proven or disproven.

I better never here someone say "God doesnt exist because if He did he would anwser my crys for help and save the world from destroying itself."

What is wrong with you? God gave us life, and a world to live on, and everything we needed! And what do we do? WE DESTROY THE VERY WORLD HE GAVE US. God doesnt have to do anything for us, we should be working to give our love and trust back to him.

What do you need help with? awwww, you failed a math test? Oh boo-hoo

I'm sure the starving people in 3rd world countries should just wait for your prayers to get anwsered first, huh?

Originally posted by RemainObsolete
I ask this.....If you were never told about god through the bible, priest, your parents ,etc. would you still believe? and why?

The way I see it is that people are taught to believe in god....it's been that way for many years. Heck back in the day you were killed if you didn't believe. So if you never ever heard about god or jesus or any of the others you would not believe.

The first human civilizations believed in a God, and there was no bible or preists to prove it to them.

I love topics like this, there's so many big words and arguements. And Anarchist dude, you've really got to stop trying to disprove God's existance. It will never be done by humans, just as it will never be scientifically proved that God exists. SO drop it.

Originally posted by Jonna
Is this argument still going on!?!

If god exists (ie resides within Existence) then it is also bound by the laws and rules of Existence. Since god is suppose to be all powerful, then it can not be bound by these laws. Hence if our concept of god is a reality, then that reality does not exist within the boundaries of our Existence.

Ya get it! God does not exist, because if it did it would have to be both all powerful and within Existence simultaniously which is IMPOSSIBLE. That is not to say that god isn't; just that god is not within existence (ie exists). If it Is then it is simply somewhere else besides our Existence. Since we can not be outside of our own Existence to find this god, then the question/debate pretty much becomes pointless as something outside of our reach can not be proven or disproven.

Ugg, holy crap, dont you get it? God is not subjected to rules!!!!!!!! He's God!

For all you know the laws of phyiscs and anatomy only exists because God wants you to think that so you wont have a breakdown when you cant explain anything logically.

Scary, huh? To think that all that is science and physics could just be a big fake? Kind of like the matrix...You think its all real. But its not. I bet you cant even handle that thought.