Trump orders that illegal aliens NOT BE COUNTED in allocating House seats under 2020 census

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Annee

Agreed.

But we did that

Or am I missing something here?

When?

How?

a reply to: JBurns

Yes. They could be too transient to be counted technically. Like hotels don't count their occupants, even if they've been there for months. Tourists, diplomats of foreign emissaries are not counted.

a reply to: Annee

Wasn't the question included on the Census this year? I thought SCOTUS or one of the federal courts said he couldn't ask the question. Perhaps I am mistaken?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I see your point, but a quick Google search did not turn up any sort of information indicating one way or the other here

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Annee

Wasn't the question included on the Census this year? I thought SCOTUS or one of the federal courts said he couldn't ask the question. Perhaps I am mistaken?

I’m not sure.

I’m trying to stay focused on one thing. An EVERY person count. The most accurate population statistic of USA & territories.

a reply to: Annee

I understand, but according to the Census bureau the question was not included so I assume they would fill them out at the same rate of participation as before.

I trust that data will be accurate

The entire point here is that we need to ensure it doesn't give some areas over-representation in government

It'd be best IMO to get those numbers based solely on voters and of course minor children. But those who don't vote have willingly given up their right to representation on the basis of non-participation. That's just one idea... There are 17 intelligence databases that could also aid in this process or perhaps even a secondary survey specifically to count US citizens in addition to the Census. This could even be a yearly process. All just a few ideas

a reply to: JBurns

Just want to say — I can see/understand multiple perspectives.

You are Right Wing — so, I can see your concern of losing representation.

I am coming from a point of logic — that the fear of a question of citizenship — will give an inaccurate population count.

IMO — it is best — to FIRST — have an (as accurate as possible) accounting of every person.

We, society, evolve. What once was, may not be the best way to do things today.

It’s been 230 years since the first Census.

The Evolution of the American Census

pudding.cool...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well Trump's order's are not to limit the census count, but to not use illegals as part of the restructuring of the House count, and that makes sense to me since they can not vote anyways.

One whole page of posts and not a single poster had even a partial clue about what this action means.

First, it's not about voting. It's about counting people, period. As directed by the Constitution. Not count citizens but people. Heads.

Why? Because the statistics gathered during the census are used to determine how much and what kinds of spending needs to directed to which places based upon population, ages, incomes, etc. Where is the most public transportation pending needed? Schools? Police and fire? etc. More people require more services --- whether they vote or not. It also determines representation in government. More people = more reps.

Make sense right? And Constitutionally mandated. So why would Trump want to violate the Constitution to do this? Well, he wants to reduce the representation of poor and minority people because they don't typically vote for him or his peeps. He wants more representation for 'his' demographic. It's another form of voter suppression. The hits just keep on coming. Uphold and defend the Constitution my ass.

originally posted by: JBurns
It'd be best IMO to get those numbers based solely on voters and of course minor children. But those who don't vote have willingly given up their right to representation on the basis of non-participation.

So only count active voters? Not people who are eligible to vote but choose not to?

originally posted by: jtma508

First, it's not about voting. It's about counting people, period. As directed by the Constitution. Not count citizens but people. Heads.

So here, reread my first sentence...

Trump's order's are not to limit the census count...

Didn't I say the same thing as you are saying above...lol

Why? Because the statistics gathered during the census are used to determine how much and what kinds of spending needs to directed to which places based upon population, ages, incomes, etc. Where is the most public transportation pending needed? Schools? Police and fire? etc. More people require more services --- whether they vote or not. It also determines representation in government. More people = more reps.

I agree and there are pages of sub-counts to the over all total, and they are used for many things as you explain above. So why would we not want to know how many illegals are in the country as part of that count?

Well, he wants to reduce the representation of poor and minority people because they don't typically vote for him or his peeps. He wants more representation for 'his' demographic. It's another form of voter suppression. The hits just keep on coming. Uphold and defend the Constitution my ass.

So if we do a full count as Trump suggests how is he doing this above? Did you even read my posts...

BTW how in the hell would Trump "reduce the representation of poor and minority people"...they would be counted and the census has nothing to do with them voting or not...you lost me there...

Illegals are not forced to live here, they are not in any permanent residency status and many come and go back to their home country at will in the off seasons, and so they should not have an effect on our federal Government demographics. If CA has 5+ million it is their failure to control that and they could fix it and it is not for the fed to pay for their failures in extra tax money and extra voting power. Why don't we put 200 million more in CA during the census year so they can have about 350 of the 435 votes, then the extra 200 million can go back home....Seems almost like a scam doesn't it...lol

CA population has only grown about 1 million in the last 5 years as many are also leaving now. It would be interesting to talk about if CA went from 39.9 million it is now to 50 million after the census...lol

originally posted by: jtma508

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well Trump's order's are not to limit the census count, but to not use illegals as part of the restructuring of the House count, and that makes sense to me since they can not vote anyways.

One whole page of posts and not a single poster had even a partial clue about what this action means.

First, it's not about voting. It's about counting people, period. As directed by the Constitution. Not count citizens but people. Heads.

Why? Because the statistics gathered during the census are used to determine how much and what kinds of spending needs to directed to which places based upon population, ages, incomes, etc. Where is the most public transportation pending needed? Schools? Police and fire? etc. More people require more services --- whether they vote or not. It also determines representation in government. More people = more reps.

Make sense right? And Constitutionally mandated. So why would Trump want to violate the Constitution to do this? Well, he wants to reduce the representation of poor and minority people because they don't typically vote for him or his peeps. He wants more representation for 'his' demographic. It's another form of voter suppression. The hits just keep on coming. Uphold and defend the Constitution my ass.

It’s really simple, isn’t it?

It plainly states it on the Census site.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Seriously? It's simple --- redistricting. Don't count illegals and those reps go to some other (ostensibly more Republican-friendly) district. If these people can't vote what does it matter to Trump? Cause he wants to cut spending on public transportation to areas that have a high concentration of illegals? What would that accomplish? He wants to NOT count illegals and tried the same maneuver with his citizenship question BS. Explain to me how 'not counting illegals' does not change the Census count??

originally posted by: jtma508

Seriously? It's simple --- redistricting. Don't count illegals and those reps go to some other (ostensibly more Republican-friendly) district. If these people can't vote what does it matter to Trump? Cause he wants to cut spending on public transportation to areas that have a high concentration of illegals? What would that accomplish? He wants to NOT count illegals and tried the same maneuver with his citizenship question BS. Explain to me how 'not counting illegals' does not change the Census count??

Of course CA wants to get more than 55 electoral votes based on a huge influx of illegals, but why do you see that as right and the President see that as wrong when it is basically rigging the system in their favor? The President doesn't want to have non-resident people being used to justify a shift in the house...This doesn't mean they are not counted in the census or that data isn't used for a plethora of things you talked about.

I would bet if the shoe was on the other foot and Trump was trying to count them to restructure the House numbers you would be screaming about it at that point. lol

You didn't answer my question if 200 million from below the borders came to CA during a census year is that OK to count them to increase CA from 55 to like 350 votes? lol

That terrible AG from New York, dumbtitia james, is now suing Pres. Trump for not allowing foreign nationals to interfere in our electoral process.

james is suing Trump because he is excluding illegal aliens from being taken into consideration for congressional apportionment, etc.

Keep in mind, Trump did not prevent them from being "enumerated" as the Constitution requires. He is merely ensuring they don't impact our political process and interfere with our elections by giving some states undue influence.

Here's the problem, democrats have been encouraging and abetting illegal aliens, and their the intent is now revealed for all to see.

twitter.com...

a reply to: Xtrozero

OK I will see your bluff and then ask you 'what is to stop said illegal from answering YES to 'are you here legally'?' Then how do you determine if he is lying?
Are you going to tally up all the names on those (presuming they gave their real name) and search the USCIS database or what?

originally posted by: chris_stibrany

OK I will see your bluff and then ask you 'what is to stop said illegal from answering YES to 'are you here legally'?' Then how do you determine if he is lying?
Are you going to tally up all the names on those (presuming they gave their real name) and search the USCIS database or what?

Its a hard thing to do...I'm not sure how they justify the correctness of the census. We are in a time that huge groups through social media can influence much to include saying whatever on the census. I guess we could do things like compare census data to households who actually file federal tax, that is how they figure out who to send stimulus checks too. They have pretty good numbers on homeless too and physically go out to count. Most illegals live under the wire so I'm not sure how their house is counted outside of physical door to door.

The census in no way affects anyone in illegal status so why not answer honestly as it can also help them. They work hard to get the word out to homeless and illegals to answer the census. Whether CA goes from 55 to 62 or stays at 55 votes don't think illegals really care or even understand. They just do not want to get busted and that is the message to get out that they will not.

a reply to: Xtrozero

' I guess we could do things like compare census data to households who actually file federal tax,'

Thats a really good one.
How about this- if you are here legally as a permanent resident, or on a proper visa, you are paying federal tax. Because you are working. Unless you are a student. So they should deport everyone without visas, or proof of federal tax..
Problem solved?

originally posted by: chris_stibrany

Thats a really good one.
How about this- if you are here legally as a permanent resident, or on a proper visa, you are paying federal tax. Because you are working. Unless you are a student. So they should deport everyone without visas, or proof of federal tax..
Problem solved?

Seems you like to hyperbole a lot.

Tax return would kind of narrow many down, then you would need further investigations since tax returns would not be 100%, So lets say 10% of Americans households don't file that leaves 90% who don't fire because they can't...Wouldn't be too hard to investigate the legal status. SS numbers are another way, that is why they steal them all the time.

The left wanted the question removed and the point made moot because its stands to gain massive power in doing so - I havent heard a single republican saying that anyone of the 800K new citizens every year is anything less than a full American and should be counted as such.

"We hold these truths to be self evident"

That set the tone for the entire series of founding documents.

Does anyone need to specify that illegal aliens dont have the same rights as citizens?

To the loonies it does, only because they want more power at the cost of all working class americans, just like those that sell us out to CHYNA.

I think Trump is going to boot alot of criminals in 2021 and the ones serving time for BS will be offered there employment, which in CA is mostly well paying construction and other jobs with some agriculture.