Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows

a reply to: Phage

You thought incorrectly.

Talking about members in their absence is frowned upon. You're here.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck
Thanks for the clarification.

You're a dick. In my opinion.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Hydroxychloroquine an old medication with an established market cap has little to no earnings potential

So is penicillin. Does that make it right to proclaim it a miracle treatment to the vulnerable for all kinds of diseases?

But no, the trump appointed experts with credentials are BS because they don't validate what POTUS thinks. That's really it.

a reply to: Phage

Welcome the motherless club old boy. Fortunately it will happen to us all eventually.

You have the opportunity to provide insight into the Thread Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows.

You have a list of studies and news articles to pull a convincing point of view in favor or against HCQ.

I don't think it's within you to do it. Is it too academically challenging for you?

I assume the reason for your insistence on me to pick a subject for debate is because as previously mentioned

Every study has some limitations when considered in isolation (for example confounding factors; sub-optimal treatment regimens; dosing regimens that may be too low, too high, or insufficiently account for the long half-life of HCQ; large treatment delays; small sample sizes; lack of focus on severity; reliance on Internet surveys; and patient characteristics very different from the most at-risk population).

So like your debate tactic of calling a list of facts -- gish galloping
Your Debate tactic of trying to isolate the opponent will also fail.

The thread is Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows.
it seems to be a complete absence of any "New Data" to support the comment and someone else once quoted

Evidence of absence is evidence of any kind that suggests something is missing or that it does not exist.

So no data to show HCQ doesn't work in combating symptoms of the coronavirus.

a reply to: puzzled2

The thread is Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows.
it seems to be a complete absence of any "New Data" to support the comment

Argument from Ignorance

Description: The assumption of a conclusion or fact based primarily on lack of evidence to the contrary. Usually best described by, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

Where are these studies that prove HCQ as an effective treatment against COVID-19?

a reply to: Southern Guardian

That's for another thread were are yours for this thread?


Quick quick cut and paste the "gish gallop" list of unverifiable news articles...

a reply to: puzzled2

That's for another thread

No, this is well within topic for the OP. You dispute that HCQ doesn't have an effect against COVID-19 so where's your source?

Shall I repeat? Happy to do this dance all over again.

a reply to: puzzled2

So no data to show HCQ doesn't work in combating symptoms of the coronavirus.

Cool.
Any evidence that unicorns don't exist?

a reply to: Phage

Tut tut - go any evidence that they exists

Take this drug - did it do something ? is not like did you see a unicorn?

- but if you would rather run off with the Rhino's feel free.

Mockery another failed debate tactic really trying hard tonight.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Hydroxychloroquine an old medication with an established market cap has little to no earnings potential

So is penicillin. Does that make it right to proclaim it a miracle treatment to the vulnerable for all kinds of diseases?

But no, the trump appointed experts with credentials are BS because they don't validate what POTUS thinks. That's really it.

First off Penicillin is not being presented as a treatment for Covid-19 hence Penicillin is not threatening the status quo of Covid-19.

Hydroxychloroquine is not a " Miracle" treatment but it is effective in treating Covid-19 at certain stages of the Virus especially early on before the break down of oxygen in the blood cells , It was not President Trump who presented HCQ as a treatment. It was medical professionals with experience treating viruses similar to Covid-19 , of course these people were quickly silenced .

Hydroxychloroquine was presented early on in the pandemic as a viable treatment for Covid-19 , of course this could not be allowed to happen. The drug was quickly demonized being called dangerous even though it is actually very mild , none the less certain powers that be needed Covid-19 to do a certain amount of damage both politically and physically to our population and Hydroxychloroquine and other drugs like it could have lessened this damage .

But alas this was not to be , and you and people like you southern still believe that HCQ is just a lie . And you base your findings on people like Dr. Fauci and Dr.Birx who are both no longer Doctors so much as they are POLITICIANS working for an agenda.

oh yea and I don't claim to be an expert , I'm not a virologist, or a Pharmacist or a Chemist or a Medical Doctor . I'm a Nurse , but I work around all of these experts I listen to them and Pay attention . So maybe you should stop refusing to admit that maybe just maybe southern your wrong .

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

especially early on before the break down of oxygen in the blood cells

Sorry to interrupt this thread with actual information, but I caught that line above. Did you have a chance to look at the information on hemoglobin breakdown I gave you a few pages back? I'd like your opinion.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Southern Guardian



Still waiting for the "New Data", when you have it please post we can discuss.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

especially early on before the break down of oxygen in the blood cells

Sorry to interrupt this thread with actual information, but I caught that line above. Did you have a chance to look at the information on hemoglobin breakdown I gave you a few pages back? I'd like your opinion.

TheRedneck

I did read it from top to bottom earlier , it is quite a bit to intake I would probably need to read it 2 or 3 times to really comprehend it at least what I can comprehend. It's a paper written for the likes of Medical Doctors to say the least , which is why I'm going to print it out.

I know atleast 2 Doctors at my hospital that will truely take the time to read it , I'll let you know what they say.

My opinion on this study I'm sorry to say would be inadequate , though the findings on the Iron overloading the hemoglobin is interesting . It's obvious that Iron plays a larger role in immunoeffectiveness of RBC's in particular pulmonary RBC's than I ever new . Covid-19 is causing an overload of toxic iron effectively destroying the bodies RBC ability to transport oxygen , Which is why Zinc is being administered Zinc in large enough doses effectively absorbs excess Iron .

HydroxyChloroquine is boosting the bodies Viral immune efficacy , Erythromycin is fighting the infections caused by Covid-19 in the lungs , and Zinc is absorbing the excess Iron which in turn is delaying the destruction of the bodies Red blood cells . And the bodies most powerful weapon of all the natural Immune system is doing the rest , it is an effective therapy albeit a time sensitive one.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Whoa!

That's some impressive info; thank you! I hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions, since you are obviously more informed with the actual metabolic mechanisms than I?

First of all, I thank you for putting those studies before some actual doctors. I am definitely interested in what they say.

It's obvious that Iron plays a larger role in immunoeffectiveness of RBC's in particular pulmonary RBC's than I ever new . Covid-19 is causing an overload of toxic iron effectively destroying the bodies RBC ability to transport oxygen , Which is why Zinc is being administered Zinc in large enough doses effectively absorbs excess Iron .

A few things here I wasn't aware of. I was of the mind that the role of iron in red blood cells was solely to transport oxygen. I have never heard it also plays an immunological role as well. Can you expand on that mechanism?

I also wasn't aware that zinc acted to absorb (or at least neutralize) iron, or that iron could be deemed "toxic." Can you expand on that?

HydroxyChloroquine is boosting the bodies Viral immune efficacy , Erythromycin is fighting the infections caused by Covid-19 in the lungs , and Zinc is absorbing the excess Iron which in turn is delaying the destruction of the bodies Red blood cells . And the bodies most powerful weapon of all the natural Immune system is doing the rest , it is an effective therapy albeit a time sensitive one.

Going off the fact that zinc is a known antiviral and is an essential mineral for immunity, and based on the reading I have done that describes hydroxychloroquine as a zinc ionophore, I assumed the zinc role was primarily in boosting natural immunity. Are you saying it performs a dual role, or is the zinc regulation simply a side effect in the treatment of this virus?

I am also interested in the antibacterial. I am assuming that is a major issue with advanced cases, correct? So you are effectively fighting both a viral infection and a bacterial one simultaneously? Is there a known link as to whether the bacterial infection worsens the viral infection or does the viral infection allow for a common bacterial infection?

Thanks in advance. I am trying to learn as much as I can about this thing and apply system analysis. The more I know of the normal and infected operations, the more accurate any analysis will be.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

First off Penicillin is not being presented as a treatment for Covid-19 hence Penicillin

That's not the point made here.

You're insisting that the years long benefits and positives of HCQ automatically equates to some truth that it's effective against COVID-19. I used Penicillin as another example in place of that to make you understand. For some reason, you can't seem to comprehend.

it is effective in treating Covid-19 at certain stages of the Virus

Based on what? Your own armed chair analysis online?

Or do you actually have a proper study to point to? Again, this dance all over again, and you will be reminded.

oh yea and I don't claim to be an expert

Yet here you are asabuvsobelow, insisting once again it's effectiveness, based on your own personal knowledge, online, ignoring once again the clear concensus in the wider medical community, including those national taskforces against this pandemic.

You are pretending to be an expert. That's pretty clear.

a reply to: puzzled2

Still waiting for the "New Data",

New data on what? The effectiveness of HCQ against COVID-19? No, that lies on your lap.

Where is it?

a reply to: Southern Guardian

You are pretending to be an expert.

Like you have been for 36 pages?

Expert: someone with more information than you. That makes everyone an expert in your world.

asabuvsobelow just posted some very relevant information on the mechanisms of the Chinese virus. You might do well to sit quietly and read while those with actual information and comprehension discuss.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

asabuvsobelow just posted some very relevant information on the mechanisms of the Chinese virus.

Lovely end there with the name 'chinese virus'. You're an obediant parrot for POTUS indeed.

asabuvsobelow can speculate all he wants. What it comes down to is the substance, which thus far, none of you have presented 30+ pages in. I'm aware of your personal analysis on what HCQ could do but it all adds to nothing on the ground at the end of it all.

Where are your studies? Where are the actual physical results? We're 6+ months in.

Where are the appropriate medical experts and bodies backing you up? The ones with their actual credentials on the line, in public? It's telling by the fact neither of you can front up anybody appropriate... and all I have simply do is remind you of your place on this matter, time and time again.

a reply to: TheRedneck

We had a pretty interesting thread pertaining to Iron here.

There are some really interesting connections throughout this subject. Things like oxidative stress, blood cell counts, immune disorders, even cancer w/ excess iron.

Many of these issues can be exacerbated by electromagnetic fields. An excerpt from this paper:

Cells with high iron absorption, for example, proliferating cells, and cells with high metabolic activity, such as brain cells, are the most vulnerable cells to the EMF effects.

There are some suggestions that strong magnetic fields can impact blood flow, this is actually an interesting critique of media response to their findings.

Interestingly, it was found that while it appeared to improve blood flow.. Cells clustered together.

This is a pretty comprehensive survey of a lot of factors that might be in play.

What happens in an illness that can affect iron levels, increase oxidative stress, cause cytokine storms when it comes into an environment laden with EMFs that can do the same? Particularly when this is frequently complemented by high stress, high air pollution, etc. (urban areas)?

I honestly believe there is a lot at play here. Factors that may have played an unknown part in many illnesses in the modern era. Most, if not all, of the "unique" possible aspects of SARS-CoV-2 are present in many, many other viral infections from long term effects to the extent of asymptomatic spread.

We should also factor in zinc deficiency in general.

I have to wonder what the impact would be on nosocomial infections (if any) if EMFs from wireless tech was minimized or even eliminated from patients rooms.

From a Systems Analysis viewpoint, it seems we are looking at some of the basic building blocks of illness. Many seem to be under the assumption that we fully understand basic vitamins & minerals, and their relationship with our biology, but we really dont. A relatively basic topic like zinc signaling in the heart still has a lot of exploration needed.

When I started looking into it, It appeared that zinc ionophore + zinc, specifically, was a fascinatingly basic approach to viral infections. The more Ive looked into it, the more Im convinced its actually quite a discovery. Many just seem to think that it would be something of a regression of medical science. Putting aside profit motives/ulterior motives, it would also be easy to dismiss when we have spent decades expanding complexity. Kind of the antithesis of true Systems Analysis.

You might also be interested in CytoSolve. Some interesting papers on it too.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

oh dear your more confused than sleepy Joe.

Thread is -- Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows --

that lies on your lap.

Where is it?