reducing a person down to their worst qualities, and judging them on that forever.

a reply to: ketsuko

Change to WHAT?

For one, accepting when things are wrong.

For example, sexual abuse has been just swept under the rug for so long. It's a little sick when you think about it.
This is the first generation that I'm seeing actual concrete change. I'm not saying there isn't abuse associated with the me-to movement, but I think the change is for the better.

I've talked to soooo many older ladies about this. I was shocked what I heard. Back then rape was just I hate to say it, accepted.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: oloufo

Your inclusion is called mainstreaming here.

I don't disagree with some of the theory behind mainstreaming, but it can be detrimental.

Take my own kid. He's a bright kid, above average but not Wile E. Coyote supergenius level. He does have two learning disabilites. One is a hearing disability. His ears work, but the auditory system in his brain is either delayed in development or genetically a bit dysfunctional, so what his ears hear is garbled and unclear. He's about 60% accurate.

Functionally, he misses directions and gets mega distracted because hearing and the concentration it requires fatigues him quickly. He's been in martial arts for almost three years and the discipline has improved his physical self-control and his mental stamina, but it doesn't improve his hearing. Maturity also helps.

Then he has dysgraphia which impairs his handwriting ability. Give him enough time, and he can produce a legible copy, but it's like freehand copying a drawing. He develops no automaticity with it. And it's the variant that impairs spelling, so there are days when he struggles to remember to write his own name still. Otherwise, he has a fantastic memory.

Public school is tough. His two problems make it difficult. He needs a lot of accommodation (technology support, closed captioning, etc.), and he's already been bullied by one teacher who refused to accept that he had a learning disability because of his apparent brightness. She decided he was being willfully disobedient, not demonstrating a persistent disability.

There are specialized schools out there who could deal with his constellation of issues and understand them while providing a regular education, but we cannot produce the more than 10K/year in tuition they often require. A voucher system would allow us access to our own tax dollars and allow us that educational freedom. It would do the same for the inner city parent facing a school that's more like an insane asylum.

thanks for sharing! unfortunately i don't have a clever answer. he will go his own way. he is loved, that's probably the most important thing. sounds like a #ty school system. in germany there are special schools, of course they are free of charge but there all children are brought together (around 7% = 500.000) who don't fit into the normal pattern and so they are automatically pushed to the edge of society.

originally posted by: oloufo
its complicated.

I totally agree. But the current solution is anything but complicated. The re-ree's who are tearing this stuff down haven't a clue what they are agaisnt. Defacing Abolitionists? Going after Washington and Lincoln? They won't even offer the rest of us to share with them just how flucking stupid they are.

If we could at least have the conversation, I think it could get a lot less complicated quick and in a hurry.

When I stomp my feet and demand things from my wife, instead of getting my way, I get gratuitous laughter followed by a good bit of nothing. I learned early compromise is key.

a reply to: Xtrozero

If it's a bad school no one wants to go to and everyone can access a voucher, then why would anyone go there? The problem should be self-solving. No students? No school.

a reply to: JAGStorm

if castration was the automatic penalty for rape, this whole thing could have been solved eons ago.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: oloufo
its complicated.

I totally agree. But the current solution is anything but complicated. The re-ree's who are tearing this stuff down haven't a clue what they are agaisnt. Defacing Abolitionists? Going after Washington and Lincoln? They won't even offer the rest of us to share with them just how flucking stupid they are.

If we could at least have the conversation, I think it could get a lot less complicated quick and in a hurry.

When I stomp my feet and demand things from my wife, instead of getting my way, I get gratuitous laughter followed by a good bit of nothing. I learned early compromise is key.

my sweetheart can be quite harsh and if she has a bad day life-threatening! i have learned to stay calm and let her run wild until she calms down again.

i also find this monument thing somehow completely exaggerated. almost hysterical. would you be able to question every single one of the protesters, you would soon have heard 100.000 different reasons. some do it for the sake of destruction, others just want to be part of something, some for making good films for youtube, some because of trump, others are so angry because they are frustrated by society or because they are constantly discriminated, others just stand there and watch, like the ones who just stand around stupidly during serious traffic accidents, there are certainly some who are convinced that these statues deserve to be torn down...

it doesn't need an adolf hitler street. or a stalin monument. i personally don't need any monuments at all, as long as they don't serve a positive purpose. but that doesn't mean i have to destroy them all. but: there are monuments, for example, that are abused by neo-nazis to hold regular vigils or to celebrate national socialism, and here a demolition would be welcome.

a reply to: network dude

When I stomp my feet and demand things from my wife, instead of getting my way, I get gratuitous laughter followed by a good bit of nothing. I learned early compromise is key.

Marriage, another institution that has been dismantled and deformed. Now, The values that you speak of, like compromise, are seen unnatural and filthy.

These moral relativists can insert any value they want and defend it anyway they wish, and be fully justified in their minds.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: JAGStorm

if castration was the automatic penalty for rape, this whole thing could have been solved eons ago.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

That would be bad in cases where the women lie, and some do. For cases where it is certain, I'm all for it!!

a reply to: JAGStorm

But they haven't really changed anything.

All they've done is scream and stomp their feet.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Asktheanimals

OR

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had. Maybe the old guard is just afraid of change, any change that they for a moment don't want to admit the change might be for the better.

It's possible yet I find it unlikely that what I've learned in the last 40 years adds nothing to my first 20. I was a classical liberal in my youth, advocating for equality, against the klan and fully aware of the history of Western Imperialism. I was also very much against organized religion due to it's history of abuses. What I wasn't taking account of were the good things done and developed due to religion, nor the effects of having a moral structure to ameliorate our worst impulses. Seeing what we are capable of in a world without restraints has proven their worth to me. I don't believe in the use of force but social pressure to change behaviors is what is lacking today.

I totally understand the liberal impulse to make the world a better place. Wanton destruction like we see today is not a path towards that. I do not see any effort at all to find a consensus of what these protests are really trying to change. What you get is a list of demands by leaders of the BLM. That is no more democratic than National Socialism was.

We have left these young people with a fear of planetary destruction (climate change - I bought in to it in the 1970's myself) or no meaningful work to do, living like a robot in a corporate factory just to barely get by while the owners live like kings. I had all those fears and resentments too. I grew up eventually and took responsibility for my own future. This also meant leaving the blame behind for my failures.

I was born too late for the civil rights era just as these kids are today but it doesn't mean they can't make worthwhile contributions. I learned that it's easy to destroy things but much harder to create them. It's even harder to bring people together for a shared vision but today's kids have so many more tools than my generation. We had to hand out flyers and mail "zines" to share a message, it took actual work. Nothing will change no matter how many tweets one makes. Nothing will improve no matter how many statues you take down, people you get fired for saying something the Left doesn't like or businesses that get looted. Disband the police and see what happens. This is not change for the better, it is intentional destabilization and tearing apart the fundamental institutions of our society.

On a final note most people want to belong to something bigger than themselves; thus the attraction of sports, political action and yes, religion. One should take care they actually know what this group is about, what they want and how they will attain it. I think many would jump this ship if they felt they safely could but it's like a runaway train going too fast so their only option is to double down, plug their ears and hope it doesn't crash.

a reply to: network dude

I see your location as “Dunn, NC” — what’s your take on the push to demolish the Market Place building in Fayetteville?

If you were watching the riots a few weeks back, did you see that idiot that lit himself on fire, attempting to burn it down? Truly classic.

originally posted by: oloufo

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: oloufo
a reply to: network dude

i understand your point. but there are monuments that glorify and those that exist to remember something terrible, the holocaust memorial in berlin for example.

The Sphinx and Great Pyramids are pretty glorious examples of slave labor, should they be dismantled and cast aside too?

i was discussing this with a friend of mine lately. i had the same thought. you could say: these are buildings that also have another aspect in them: the skill and genius of our ancestors when it comes to architecture. but i agree with you, consequently they should be torn down. but then we wouldn't be any better than the islamic state. its complicated.

Perhaps a statute of limitations on being offended would work. If something has been around say 2-3 generations longer than you have, then we can accept that it is representative of another era and leave it at that? That might un-complicate things a little, no?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Our educational system has failed them miserably and the digital reality they are absorbed in to requires no effort, no sacrifice, nothing real. They are disconnected from reality in a number of fundamental ways and are similarly strangers to the very culture that gave them birth.

OR

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had. Maybe the old guard is just afraid of change, any change that they for a moment don't want to admit the change might be for the better.

And this statement has been bothering me all day.

Enlightened is when you think and understand for yourself.

Most of these protesters think they understand because they were told. They're like the NYT journalist on the Joe Rogan show who claimed she didn't like Tulsi Gabbard because she was a total Assad toady, but when she was asked to explain what that meant, how Gabbard was an Assad toady, she didn't even know what a toady was, let alone how Gabbard was one.

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: oloufo

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: oloufo
a reply to: network dude

i understand your point. but there are monuments that glorify and those that exist to remember something terrible, the holocaust memorial in berlin for example.

The Sphinx and Great Pyramids are pretty glorious examples of slave labor, should they be dismantled and cast aside too?

i was discussing this with a friend of mine lately. i had the same thought. you could say: these are buildings that also have another aspect in them: the skill and genius of our ancestors when it comes to architecture. but i agree with you, consequently they should be torn down. but then we wouldn't be any better than the islamic state. its complicated.

Perhaps a statute of limitations on being offended would work. If something has been around say 2-3 generations longer than you have, then we can accept that it is representative of another era and leave it at that? That might un-complicate things a little, no?

good idea!
we are living in an epoch of extremes.
after all, still 90 percent of all earthly citizens are normal peace-loving people.

a reply to: ketsuko

Most of these protesters think they understand because they were told.

How do you know what protesters were told? Seriously, answer that question. You don't.
I refuse to lump all protesters together. I get that is very easy to do and it is often a talking point on here and other social media.

Have you actually looked at some the protesters? There were Mennonite people protesting. There were grandmas, there were grandpas, there were people of all ages and races coming together as one, saying this isn't right. They didn't need
to be told anything, they all saw the same video of a man being murdered.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Again, it's very different to recognize a problem than it is to propose a solution to it.

I can recognize problems all day. We all recognized a problem with George Floyd, but then that recognized issue grew into this cultural revolution.

Exactly how does one bad cop and one man turn into the need to tear down all of Western Civilization? Because this is where we are now. Can you explain that? Where is the enlightenment in that? What do you replace it with? What is the solution.

I do see a problem, and it isn't the one you think it is.

Consider the statistics on literacy in the classroom for starters. How many of the kids who graduate year to year are able to read competently, and then of those, how many are able to really digest and comprehend with understanding what it is they just read. Reading is more than just being able to adequately decode language you know.

But when so many of our kids are barely able to read at grade level, and those are the ones heading off to college, then what are they absorbing? Reading is exposure to vocabulary and the ability to process and understand those words. The more you read, the more words you have exposure to and understanding of. So again, they head off to college and get lectured by academics. Do those academics understand the words? Probably. Can they? Maybe ... but if they were barely reading at grade level? Maybe not.

How do you think they are reading and understanding for themselves if they aren't exactly processing language at a high level because they never got much beyond bare reading minimum? It was obvious the NYT journo was lacking a broad language understanding. It was also obvious she was lacking the ability to think about what she was reading. Maybe she'd never been taught that she should.

originally posted by: ketsuko

If it's a bad school no one wants to go to and everyone can access a voucher, then why would anyone go there? The problem should be self-solving. No students? No school.

Unions and money made per student in a district drives it all, not the well being of the kids.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: ketsuko

Most of these protesters think they understand because they were told.

How do you know what protesters were told? Seriously, answer that question. You don't.
I refuse to lump all protesters together. I get that is very easy to do and it is often a talking point on here and other social media.

Have you actually looked at some the protesters? There were Mennonite people protesting. There were grandmas, there were grandpas, there were people of all ages and races coming together as one, saying this isn't right. They didn't need
to be told anything, they all saw the same video of a man being murdered.

A danger arises as this reaction becomes the precedent for what ever is seen or reported on TV. We humans can’t become a switch they can just turn on and off as they wish. We have been conditioned to a binary mindset, because computer language is easy to program. What we see happening now is the result of years of programming.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

That would be bad in cases where the women lie, and some do. For cases where it is certain, I'm all for it!!

Or they change the definition of rape to widen the circle as #metoo does.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ketsuko

If it's a bad school no one wants to go to and everyone can access a voucher, then why would anyone go there? The problem should be self-solving. No students? No school.

Unions and money made per student in a district drives it all, not the well being of the kids.

Bingo! And I've seen it first hand.