reducing a person down to their worst qualities, and judging them on that forever.

a reply to: network dude

“reducing a person down to their worst qualities, and judging them on that forever.”

That is the best headline I have ever read, bar none.
I guess it reflects in so many more ways, reflects so much more than just in this thread.
Makes me think so many things

a reply to: network dude

I just want to add that Martin Luther King Jr. also took money from the Soviet Union during the Cold War to promote civil unrest in the US. By today's standards, he would be considered a traitor and/or domestic terrorist.

a reply to: Observationalist

What is missing in many young people today are the qualities needed to enjoy and create art; self- reflection, virtue, patience, observation, comparison. What little history they know has been taught them through a narrow lens of victimization. They have very short attention spans, do not understand anything that takes a long time to develop and demand instant everything. They want social change in the same time it takes to order a Big Mac.

Our educational system has failed them miserably and the digital reality they are absorbed in to requires no effort, no sacrifice, nothing real. They are disconnected from reality in a number of fundamental ways and are similarly strangers to the very culture that gave them birth. Politics in all it's nastiness has set children at odds with their parents over issues like climate change, genders, structural racism etc. Very insidious stuff they've been indoctrinated with and it gets worse the farther up you go in education.

At heart though is sadly a genuine desire to improve living conditions particularly for various minorities. All well and fine but this hinges on whether they are truly being discriminated against which is where the media is always ready to do their job and lie. Covington kids, Jussie, NRA nooses, trans people in danger - it's 99% manufactured hysteria and fear.

If racism is so rampant in our society why on Earth does the media have to pick up and run with every hoax? Why create "micro-aggressions" and categories of casual speech and claim it is violence? If this White supremacy was real there would be no Black athletes in professional sports, no President Obama, no Black grammys etc etc. Most of all they wouldn't be allowed to protest by the thousands unmolested. It's farcical.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: network dude

Remember how a couple of decades ago, the Talaban destroyed huge statues of Buddha that had stood for 1700 years? One was 174 feet tall.

And leave us not forget the Library of Alexandria.

War has erased so much history. Architecture that has stood for centuries, Even the Statue of Saddam Hussein was art. How relevant it is to society should be judged by those who live with it, not by those who happen by and feel the need to be outraged at someone elses expense. I'm just irritated at the way this is all being done and CONDONED. it makes me wonder why i have to follow rules. What do I gain, other than some self satisfaction of knowing I'm following the rules?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Our educational system has failed them miserably and the digital reality they are absorbed in to requires no effort, no sacrifice, nothing real. They are disconnected from reality in a number of fundamental ways and are similarly strangers to the very culture that gave them birth.

OR

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had. Maybe the old guard is just afraid of change, any change that they for a moment don't want to admit the change might be for the better.

a reply to: network dude

I understand the argument to why people would want these symbols (I too see them as reminders) taken down. I understand the sentiment they hold through the best capacity of empathy I have. But that doesn't mean I agree with them. Personally I see that as a way of white washing our past, which leads to the possibility of it repeating or rebranding itself. At the very least, these things shouldn't be destroyed, and we should have a museum not to glorify but show people about our past. And for the argument many of these were put up during the civil rights era and are not that old, share that context in their presentation.

But to be honest, the more I look around, the more I don't understand at the end of the day. It all looks like madness to me, and it's not just this, but anything that tribalism and bias affirmation touches. I don't want to live in a white washed world. I don't want to live in a society where speech is heavily regulated because so many representing different ideologies are sensitive to the meanings that are direct and or perceived.

For God's sake, we live in the biggest renaissance this world has ever seen. Not only have we been handed an open forum in which to speak, that forum is instant and covers almost every corner of the planet. We have all been given instant access to almost every piece of every information that has ever existed, or just came to existence 3 seconds ago. Yet so many are celebrating the though of watering it down to make it more palatable. Regulation of ideas shouldn't be through the force of government or citizens for that matter, it should be won in the arena of public debate and opinion. Ironically, in this age of truly abundant and immense information, many still cling to the voices that come from an ultra minority of entertainment media product, the American "cheese" of news.

a reply to: JAGStorm

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had.

As a millennial I disagree. But the caveat would be I think my generation has the same density of any said characteristic as generations before it. We may have subtle differences that are generationally specific, but for the most part our path to the human experience seems about the same as those that came before us.

dbl

Love is a gentle flower blowing in the storm called Life.

Is it cheaper to demolish infrastructure an rebuild it, or have insurance pay for it.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Our educational system has failed them miserably and the digital reality they are absorbed in to requires no effort, no sacrifice, nothing real. They are disconnected from reality in a number of fundamental ways and are similarly strangers to the very culture that gave them birth.

OR

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had. Maybe the old guard is just afraid of change, any change that they for a moment don't want to admit the change might be for the better.

Change to WHAT?

No one has ever articulated what they want to change it to. And that is the problem. They don't actually know. All they do know is that they hate what they have, or at least they think they do.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Our educational system has failed them miserably and the digital reality they are absorbed in to requires no effort, no sacrifice, nothing real. They are disconnected from reality in a number of fundamental ways and are similarly strangers to the very culture that gave them birth.

OR

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had. Maybe the old guard is just afraid of change, any change that they for a moment don't want to admit the change might be for the better.

Change to WHAT?

No one has ever articulated what they want to change it to. And that is the problem. They don't actually know. All they do know is that they hate what they have, or at least they think they do.

That's a very fair question to ask the louder masses that are rebeling now.... One they've still failed to answer Ina consice, consistent, and convincing way.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

they didn't ask everyone. Hell, they didn't really ask ANYONE. They just started tearing things down.

I'm not opposed to being wrong in my views of the significance of the statues. But I will not ever accept that some small group of assholes can decide what's best for everyone else, tear things down on their own, and it just be OK. It's not OK.

And if every life is sacred (sing the monty python song) then these tool bags need to stop before some other group arms up and tries to protect a statue and someone gets shot. Oh wait, that already happened. Dying for a cause you deeply believe in is one thing, but dying because you felt the need to either protect a brass statue, or tear it down? I'm not sure that was what God had in mind for us when he created "humans".

a reply to: CriticalStinker

No one wants to be told their ideas are stupid to put it bluntly.

The young idealist who is just discovering communism or socialism always thinks it's the most awesome thing ever. I remember that moment myself. I also remember reading literature about it, not non-fiction books, but fiction stories. Stories where the idea worked and stories where it didn't. I recall trying to do my own world building for stories and discovering the amount of logical handwaving I had to do to make communism work the way most idealists say it will or would.

In the end, I concluded that in reality, it would just be plain old unworkable.

So we've gotten to the point we're at now, where so many are so invested in what they are convinced is right that they don't even want to entertain dissent anymore because they don't want to hear the other side. They don't want to take the risk.

And allowing history to remain as it is shows that we come out of a tradition of dissent of ideas. What was the original revolution but a massive dissent of ideas where freedom of thought won? The Civil War was another time when we came to blows over dissent of ideas. Unfortunately, it seems they have decided that we can no longer allow that dissent of ideas.

a reply to: network dude

they didn't ask everyone. Hell, they didn't really ask ANYONE. They just started tearing things down.

Which is true as well. Use the public forum of democracy to get the decision voted through. The community will most likely be more accepting of the change when it got voted through by locals.

I've just never been a fan of white washing. I'd rather see the contrast of the moment compared to the past. I can't try and do that if I change the past to fit the lens of today.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

It's because in today's society feelings are the most important thing to worry about.
We can't judge people of the past with modern sensibilities and expect them to measure up.

The left is also redefining modern sensibilities daily now as the woke left goes crazy. Take Jimmy Kimmel who was the left's poster child for awareness, and then they attacked him for his portrayals of Black celebrities mainly Karl Malone. That wasn't "blackface" as he was made to look like a celebrity that happened to be black, kind of a big difference that the left can not see anymore. It was seen as a funny skit by all for 20 years....

I'm not a Kimmel fan at all, but this mirrors the piranha frenzy we saw with #metoo that once they took down a couple of bad people the frenzy never stopped and so they kept redefining their narrative of what is bad and so they continued to look for "whose next". Statues are the same as they took down confederate statues and now they are going after them ALL as they run out of confederate ones and so broaden what they considered anti-black/pro-slavery to even include some very anti-slavery people.

a reply to: Xtrozero

They've broadened it to include just about anything Western Civ now, but they've hated Western Civ for a while -- too many old, dead white guys. Western Civ is the embodiment of the White Patriarchy and oppression for the radical left.

It's looking like they'll even ban the Enlightenment which made it possible for them to hold their precious hatreds.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Our educational system has failed them miserably and the digital reality they are absorbed in to requires no effort, no sacrifice, nothing real. They are disconnected from reality in a number of fundamental ways and are similarly strangers to the very culture that gave them birth.

OR

This is the most educated enlightened youth we've ever had. Maybe the old guard is just afraid of change, any change that they for a moment don't want to admit the change might be for the better.

I never see change that addresses the true problems mentioned.
Like why should we expect young people who live in lesser tax areas to go to foul schools with little to help them get ahead.
There are many issues and not many of them will improve by removing a statue of some old hero.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Like when this guy got his spanking.

Defacing a statue of an abolitionist. Likely because they had no idea what that word meant.

a reply to: ketsuko

They could do a better job of convincing me too if they tried a bit. I'm sure it would surprise most people, but I lean heavily towards the libertarian side of a political compass. I think we lack a large amount of personal responsibility, and the treasuring of our rights and potential because of that.

But if a group showed me a way we could make college more accessible while not spending that much extra money, I'd humor it more than someone destroying stuff while demanding it. If you said we'd only fund schools if they had affordable tuition, and help people get through it after doing their associates in community college, that's a start. If you say the more educated people we have, the more they earn, and they more they are net producers and not consumers of public equity. That's an imperfect example, but I'm just saying there is a way to make an argument more appealing to people like me.

I'm pretty open minded, and I'm willing to hear anyone out. But they have to win me over, they don't just deserve to have my vote, and nor can they scare me into it with thinly veiled cries of bigotry because I won't hop on their train.

originally posted by: ketsuko

They've broadened it to include just about anything Western Civ now, but they've hated Western Civ for a while -- too many old, dead white guys. Western Civ is the embodiment of the White Patriarchy and oppression for the radical left.

It's looking like they'll even ban the Enlightenment which made it possible for them to hold their precious hatreds.

They are also extremely ignorant as the narrative is just as you say anything western culture. Why would you take down a statue of Hans Christian Heg, Lincoln or Grant to name a few...