Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

.

Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.

.

a reply to: Pachomius

There has always been existence

Prove it.

There are transient beings

Prove it.

From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity

Even if you can prove 1 & 2., then you’d still have to prove this.

in nums 1 and 2 and 3

Which have yet to be proven (BTW, just saying it’s proven, doesn’t prove anything).

God exists in concept

Unicorns “exist in concept” too, but doesn’t make them real.

originally posted by: Pachomius

Hahahaha, ho hum.

There, now you know I am a narcissist.

Hahahahahaha, hohohohoho humhumhumhum.

See? I am such an unbearable self-important narcicissist.

.

Yes you do seem to be.

originally posted by: Pachomius

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

Right.

originally posted by: [post=25734491]Pachomius[/post
2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

Of course.

originally posted by: Pachomius
3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

Incorrect.

There is no need to imagine any "permenant self-existent entity" to explain the existence of transient entities.

Matter/energy change form (ie. all forms are transient) but WE KNOW that matter/energy itself cannot be created or destroyed.

We have never observed brand new matter/energy being created and there is no reason to think that it ever has been.

originally posted by: Pachomius

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

Nope.

There is no reason to imagine any permenant creator.. we know matter/energy cant be created or destroyed. It is matter/energy itself that is permenant..

You really thought you had proven the existence of God?

a reply to: TerryDon79


Dear Terry, you use the word 'prove' like as though you are truly acquainted with its meaning.

So, I love to learn from you, tell me without going to dictionaries nor dropping names and links at all, in not more than 100 words, tell me what it is to prove something to exist.


Now, dear everyone, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to read what Terry can teach us what it is to prove something to exist.


Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:33 AM

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

.

Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.

.

TerryDon79 posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:41 AM
a reply to: Pachomius


There has always been existence


Prove it.


There are transient beings


Prove it.


From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity


Even if you can prove 1 & 2., then you’d still have to prove this.


in nums 1 and 2 and 3


Which have yet to be proven (BTW, just saying it’s proven, doesn’t prove anything).


God exists in concept


Unicorns “exist in concept” too, but doesn’t make them real.

.

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777



Dear Rings, you declare:

Matter/energy change form (ie. all forms are transient) but WE KNOW that matter/energy itself cannot be created or destroyed.
We have never observed brand new matter/energy being created and there is no reason to think that it ever has been.

Pray, enlighten me where did matter and energy come from?

.


Appendix

Rings posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:52 AM


originally posted by: Pachomius

Hahahaha, ho hum.

There, now you know I am a narcissist.

Hahahahahaha, hohohohoho humhumhumhum.

See? I am such an unbearable self-important narcicissist.

.



Yes you do seem to be.

Rings posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 02:05 AM



originally posted by: Pachomius

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.



Right.



2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.



Of course.


originally posted by: Pachomius
3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.



Incorrect.

There is no need to imagine any "permenant self-existent entity" to explain the existence of transient entities.

Matter/energy change form (ie. all forms are transient) but WE KNOW that matter/energy itself cannot be created or destroyed.

We have never observed brand new matter/energy being created and there is no reason to think that it ever has been.



originally posted by: Pachomius

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.



Nope.

There is no reason to imagine any permenant creator.. we know matter/energy cant be created or destroyed. It is matter/energy itself that is permenant..

You really thought you had proven the existence of God?

------------------------------------
edit on 26-1-2021 by Ringsofsaturn777 because: (no reason given)

.

a reply to: Pachomius

tell me without going to dictionaries

No. Words have meanings and those are collected in books called dictionaries. I don’t know why you’re so scared of them

So back to my post (that you ignored all of apart from a single word)...

There has always been existence

Prove it.

There are transient beings

Prove it.

From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity

Even if you can prove 1 & 2., then you’d still have to prove this.

in nums 1 and 2 and 3

Which have yet to be proven (BTW, just saying it’s proven, doesn’t prove anything).

God exists in concept

Unicorns “exist in concept” too, but doesn’t make them real.

originally posted by: Pachomius

Pray, enlighten me where did matter and energy come from?

Nowhere. It has always existed and always will... its a law of physics that it can never be created or destroyed...

Your position is this - something that we know cannot be created or destroyed MUST have been created.. gotta be God.

You've wasted a lot of hours and words on this nonsense. Don't feel bad though, billions of ppl have.

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777
It's sort of bred in to us though.....that 'something' does 'something'.
You know, that there is two. Something or someone doing something.
It's just energy moving.

Instead of 'something' that does/causes 'that'......there is just That.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777
It's sort of bred in to us though.....that 'something' does 'something'.
You know, that there is two. Something or someone doing something.
It's just energy moving.

Instead of 'something' that does/causes 'that'......there is just That.

Correct. We are prone to delusion. We are so wrapped up in the world of forms that we fail to understand the real nature of things. It is only forms which are subject to creation and destruction. The Buddha explained it all thousands of years ago.

Religion suffers from the concept of who is God... Is it Lord God or is it God.

People just dont know who is who....

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

Dear Rings, please don’t conduct yourself as infallible, you say, “Nowhere. It (matter and energy) has always existed and always will... its a law of physics that it can never be created or destroyed...”

Prove that matter and energy has always existed and always will.

Dear everyone, the guy will now go away.

Appendix

Rings posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 08:00 PM


originally posted by: Pachomius: Pray, enlighten me where did matter and energy come from?



Nowhere. It has always existed and always will... its a law of physics that it can never be created or destroyed...

Your position is this - something that we know cannot be created or destroyed MUST have been created.. gotta be God.

You've wasted a lot of hours and words on this nonsense. Don't feel bad though, billions of ppl have.


========================================================
edit on 27-1-2021 by Ringsofsaturn777 because: (no reason given)
,

a reply to: TerryDon79

Dear everyone, Terry has not taught me what is his meaning of the word ‘prove’.

Please Terry, accept the challenge, otherwise you are bereft of learning and intelligence.

Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 05:12 PM
a reply to: TerryDon79: “Dear Terry, you use the word 'prove' like as though you are truly acquainted with its meaning.

So, I love to learn from you, tell me without going to dictionaries nor dropping names and links at all, in not more than 100 words, tell me what it is to prove something to exist.


Now, dear everyone, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to read what Terry can teach us what it is to prove something to exist.


Appendix



Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:33 AM

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

.

Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.

.



TerryDon79 posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:41 AM
a reply to: Pachomius


There has always been existence


Prove it.


There are transient beings


Prove it.


From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity


Even if you can prove 1 & 2., then you’d still have to prove this.


in nums 1 and 2 and 3


Which have yet to be proven (BTW, just saying it’s proven, doesn’t prove anything).


God exists in concept


Unicorns “exist in concept” too, but doesn’t make them real.


.

a reply to: Pachomius

Please Terry, accept the challenge, otherwise you are bereft of learning and intelligence.

Because I know how to use a dictionary? LOL!

The problem you have is, you have no proof. You want people to explain things to you, prove things to you, but you have done absolutely squat to prove your premise.

Get back to me when you’re not scared of books.

a reply to: TerryDon79

The problem you have is, you have no proof. You want people to explain things to you, prove things to you, but you have done absolutely squat to prove your premise.

But you are proof. Your seat of conciousness will never be pinpointed in the brain. Because its not a constuct of nueral activity that just weighs inputs. That awareness, your I AM, is the seat of your soul. Which is part and parcel of the greater soul. Thats why some people that have been resusitated from heart attacks with no brain activity, can report "very specific details of what happened to them during cardiac arrest" here.

The yogi's in India dscovered long ago that when they trained their brain to be quiter (less thought) something strange occurred. They could percieve very subtle thoughts that didn't originate from their brain. So subtle that normal thought would block it entirely out. That thought originated from the great soul. A gateway in which communcation could travel from I AM to I AM. So two yogi's could communicate directly with one another through that gateway proving it was a real.

But to truly believe one has to experience that belief. You only need the will to do so.

Dear everyone, please post your comments to my text as follows in quote below.

N.B. You have to be ready and eager to give meanings to words you use in your comments, without bringing up dictionaries, dropping names, and also no links, otherwise I will be most sorely tempted to suspect that you have no learning and no intelligence.

And please cite verbatim my words over which you have comments for me.
.

Appendix

Pachomius posted on Jan, 27 2021 @ 01:33 AM

Now, all ye readers here, this as follows here is again another ultimate proof - this time shorter, for the existence of God:

1. There has always been existence, this is intrinsically irrefutable.

2. There are transient beings, like us humans, we have a beginning and an ending, that is an intrinsically irrefutable fact.

3. From num 1 and num 2 it follows that there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and all the rest in existence are transient entities created and kept in existence by that one permanent and self-existent entity. This is an intrinsically irrefutable logical conclusion.

4. There, in nums 1 and 2 and 3 is the how and why everyone with honest intelligent and productive thinking accepts as a fact that is irrefutable, namely:

5. God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of everything that is transient or that is not God Himself.

.

Dear everyone, see if you can show that the above explanation for God's existence is founded on the fallacies of begging the question and circular reasoning.

.

PS Yes, I know that I am a self-grandiose narcissist.
.

originally posted by: Pachomius

Dear Rings, please don’t conduct yourself as infallible, you say, “Nowhere. It (matter and energy) has always existed and always will... its a law of physics that it can never be created or destroyed...”

Prove that matter and energy has always existed and always will.

Take a physics class. It has been proven.

a reply to: glend

But you are proof. Your seat of conciousness will never be pinpointed in the brain.

All that’s proves is we haven’t discovered what/where consciousness is. Yet.

Much like how we didn’t know a few thousand years ago that the world was round. Or not so long ago that being on a train wouldn’t make a womans uterus exit their body.

The “we don’t know, therefore god” is a lousy argument.

a reply to: Pachomius

without bringing up dictionaries

Please do! Books scary! Aaaaaaah!

(Still waiting for you to prove your premises. I know you won’t, because you can’t)

a reply to: TerryDon79

All that’s proves is we haven’t discovered what/where consciousness is.

Doesn't it surprize you that science can mathematically explain a black hole but when it comes to consciousness they at a complete loss. Thats because science expresses findings in the language of mathematics. They have tied their hands by their own methodology.

The link I gave you infers that people have ability to exist outside the 5 senses.
If you prefer to infer that the label of God is defined as a 6th sense. Then that be God.