Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

Here is my proclamation of God's existence:*

Because I Pachomius exist and I know that I did not bring myself into existence, I have long ago come to know that ultimately God exists, and He brought me into existence.
Now, God for me is ultimately existence itself.

And anyone who is human like I am, and he calls himself Anyman, he can also and does proclaim like myself exactly the following:

Because I Anyman exist and I know that I did not bring myself into existence, I have long ago come to know that ultimately God exists, and He brought me into existence. Now, God for me is ultimately existence itself.

So, now there are two of humans who know and proclaim exactly the following:

Because we exist and we know that we did not bring ourselves into existence, we have long ago come to know that ultimately God exists, and he brought us into existence. Now, God for us is ultimately existence itself.

And we declare, let no human else disturb us at all who cannot and does not accept exactly the following:

Because I exist and I know that I did not bring myself into existence, I have long ago come to know that ultimately God exists, and He brought me into existence. Now, God for me is ultimately existence itself.

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*N.B. This text taken from another of my net forums.
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Pachomius

Okay, dear Tzar,
what about we agree that existence is anything at all which we can talk about, even the word nothing as word of course, we can talk about it, but we cannot talk about nothing because that is not possible.

That is what I mean by existence is the isolated system, nothing can get in and nothing can get out.

Now, in the isolated system, there is at least one thing that is permanent and self-exisent, while everything else is transient and created by this one permanent self-existent entity, which I call God.

From our being transient entities, with a beginning at birth and an ending at death, it follows that God exists.

What do you say now, dear Tzar?

I say that if there is a permanent and self existent agency that created the universe and all life in it, then logically it follows that they are not part of the universe. You need a platform outside of the system to interface with it and still be independent of it. What is this "exterior" system and where did that come from? Or is it suggested that the most sophisticated & multidimensional agency in all of existence requires less formidable causality than the universe it was invented to engineer and parent? To put it another way, you explained very crudely that a watchmaker exists but not a word about where he went to school or how his parents met before he was born. Instead you expect us to be satisfied with your version of the watchmaker, who is ironically exempt from the rules of watchmaking because he's a wizard and completely bypassed the process of being born thanks to ineffable sorcery that defeats the purpose of the watchmaker analogy.

That's some disappointing logic.

From our being transient entities, with a beginning at birth and an ending at death, it follows that God exists.

No. No it does not. It follows that we are mortal creatures comprised of biological mechanism that degrade and fail over time as all material constructs do. However some combinations of organic compounds are more successful in consumption and propagation. It would be more accurate to say that life in general has survived in spite of overwhelming hostile conditions, which is why the modern ecosystem is the remaining 0.001% of all life that has ever existed on Earth. Deriving a higher power from that equation can only mean such an agency is incredibly violent toward life or at best, utterly apathetic. It's more reasonable to say that there is no such agency than to declare we are actively being picked off like a cruel kid torturing an ant farm one helpless insect at a time (and in some cases, entire colonies. See mass extinction events for more details) which is the only alternative that fits the data.

Bumping for visibility

a reply to: TzarChasm

You Tzar say: "I say that if there is a permanent and self existent agency that created the universe and all life in it, then logically it follows that they are not part of the universe."

You are not getting the whole big total complete picture of existence aka reality, period.

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I say that God is Himself the existence of all existence, so that He makes up the what I call isolated system itself of existence, inside this system there are at least one member who is co-extensive with existence itself, and other members who are all created by God, and these latters are all transient i.e. they have a beginning and an ending to their existence.

So, let me read your comments, and learn to grasp the whole big complete total picture of existence aka reality.
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Dear all posters here, I just contributed this message in another forum, and I think that it is relevant here, so allow me you all to bring it to your attention:

From existence to the existence of God.

Dear all posters here, what do you say, Is or isn't it that existence is permanent, it's always been there, even before physicists came to whatever they came to, it is all existence, at least inside their brain/mind.

So, what do you say, will you concur with me that there's been existence permanently?

Do you grasp my message at all, so no need to talk about how things can pop in from nothing etc etc etc - or with one Lawrence Krauss that nothing is unstable that is why it turned into something.

Please try to see things always from the standpoint first and foremost that there is existence and it is permanent, even though physicists are still trying to formulate a theory of everything, it is already here, namely, existence is permanent, that explains everything even the presence of brain matter in them physicists and physical cosmologists.
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a reply to: Pachomius
Can you please provide a link to the other forum as I am interested in reading the replies you received?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Pachomius
Can you please provide a link to the other forum as I am interested in reading the replies you received?

forums.delphiforums.com...

Enjoy!

My name there is Mdejess.

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a reply to: Pachomius

Existance of what exactly....?

What have always existed..?

We have not always existed. And there are things that don't exist anymore but did millions of years ago...

Our universe have not always existed.... what was our universe before it came into existance...?

Everybody, disagree with everything all the time.

originally posted by: Pachomius
a reply to: TzarChasm

You Tzar say: "I say that if there is a permanent and self existent agency that created the universe and all life in it, then logically it follows that they are not part of the universe."

You are not getting the whole big total complete picture of existence aka reality, period.

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I say that God is Himself the existence of all existence, so that He makes up the what I call isolated system itself of existence, inside this system there are at least one member who is co-extensive with existence itself, and other members who are all created by God, and these latters are all transient i.e. they have a beginning and an ending to their existence.

So, let me read your comments, and learn to grasp the whole big complete total picture of existence aka reality.

The entirety of existence is one ginormongous organism that carries all the universe and a hundred billion trillion galaxies in its belly? And that great whale of a cosmic balloon is god?

a reply to: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Pachomius
a reply to: TzarChasm

You Tzar say: "I say that if there is a permanent and self existent agency that created the universe and all life in it, then logically it follows that they are not part of the universe."

You are not getting the whole big total complete picture of existence aka reality, period.

----------------------------

I say that God is Himself the existence of all existence, so that He makes up the what I call isolated system itself of existence, inside this system there are at least one member who is co-extensive with existence itself, and other members who are all created by God, and these latters are all transient i.e. they have a beginning and an ending to their existence.

So, let me read your comments, and learn to grasp the whole big complete total picture of existence aka reality.


The entirety of existence is one ginormongous organism that carries all the universe and a hundred billion trillion galaxies in its belly? And that great whale of a cosmic balloon is god?

I say everything that we humans talk about, that is the big complete total isolated system, and in this system there is at least one permanent self-existent being and all the rest transient beings having their origin from this one permanent self-existent being, and that universe of which scientists are into investigating, it is also a transient being.

And I say that the whole isolated system THAT is to my thinking also God equivalently, so that God and the isolated system they are coextensive.

You are flabbergasted, but no need, because that is the objective reality, just because you are accustomed to think that God is like us limited entities with limited height and width and weight, therefore God is like that?

That is the evidence of your being bereft of resourceful honest intelligent productive thinking.

Anyway, what are your reasonable objections to the idea of God as the totality of existence, as explained by me?

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Dear everyone, I now have the certainty of God's existence, God in concept as the totality of existence so that God and existence are identical.

What about man and the universe?

They are the creation of God, and they exist inside God Who is the totality of existence.

Man and universe are transient entities, i.e. they have a beginning ultimately from God's causation, and an ending, like with man at death, and with the universe when it goes up puff into non-existence the moment God decides to extinguish it.

So, I invite anyone to refute my certainty of God's existence, but you must define what is God, and also you must admit that you are a transient entity.
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Haha, I get you all dumbfounded, and why? Because you guys don't have any sense of innovative resourcefulness.
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First, you take existence to be permanent - have any objections about that? Tell me!

Then you consider that it is a fact that you and I we are transient beings, we come to existence at birth and we will go into extinction at death. See that? It's obvious. Anyway, what are your objections?

Wherefore it follows that in the permanence of existence there is at least one entity that is permanent and self-existent, and He is accountable for all the transient entities in existence, starting with mankind. Can't see that? It's all because you guys are not possessed of any innovative resourcefulness.

You judge everything according to the size of your brain matter.
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originally posted by: Pachomius
Haha, I get you all dumbfounded, and why? Because you guys don't have any sense of innovative resourcefulness.
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First, you take existence to be permanent - have any objections about that? Tell me!

Then you consider that it is a fact that you and I we are transient beings, we come to existence at birth and we will go into extinction at death. See that? It's obvious. Anyway, what are your objections?

Wherefore it follows that in the permanence of existence there is at least one entity that is permanent and self-existent, and He is accountable for all the transient entities in existence, starting with mankind. Can't see that? It's all because you guys are not possessed of any innovative resourcefulness.

You judge everything according to the size of your brain matter.
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Have you ever considered the possibility that your ingenious monologuing is boring and tedious and that's why you have spent so much time talking to yourself here? No offense.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Thanks for your visit, dear Tzar.

Now tell me, what do you say, is it the fact that we humans being transient beings, i.e. we have a beginning at birth and an ending at death, that leads us to the fact that ultimately there is an entity that is of permanent existence and is self-existent, this entity brings us to existence, and enables us to continue to exist and to operate? (Answer yes or no.)

posted Posted by Tzar on Jan, 15 2021 @ 01:32 AM




originally posted by: Pachomius

Haha, I get you all dumbfounded, and why? Because you guys don't have any sense of innovative resourcefulness.

First, you take existence to be permanent - have any objections about that? Tell me!

Then you consider that it is a fact that you and I we are transient beings, we come to existence at birth and we will go into extinction at death. See that? It's obvious.

Anyway, what are your objections?

Wherefore it follows that in the permanence of existence there is at least one entity that is permanent and self-existent, and He is accountable for all the transient entities in existence, starting with mankind.

Can't see that? It's all because you guys are not possessed of any innovative resourcefulness.

You judge everything according to the size of your brain matter.





Have you ever considered the possibility that your ingenious monologuing is boring and tedious and that's why you have spent so much time talking to yourself here? No offense.
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Dear Tzar, you ask me:

Have you ever considered the possibility that your ingenious monologuing is boring and tedious and that's why you have spent so much time talking to yourself here? No offense.

I make it a point to post something in this my thread everyday, and most satisfying is to reply to comments from others who are like myself, eager to read something that is profitable to us, in re God exists or not.

When you have something that you like very much to share with others: because you find it profitable or at least enjoyable, to yourself, please share that with me, okay?

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And at this point in time I have come to the certainty that God exists and I define Him as follows:

God in concept is the permanent sef-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

My most recent addition to the concept of God, is that God is existence itself.

There, that should start the heart of atheists and traditional theist palpitating- hahaha.

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originally posted by: Pachomius
My most recent addition to the concept of God, is that God is existence itself.

So then....
God is what there is......there is no other.

"Alan Watts - 'What There Is' - The Documentary on Existence (HD)"

Thanks everyone for your contribution to my thread.

Now I want to share with you this message I just wrote in another forum.

From existence to the existence of God. -Title of thread
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This message is addressed also to Cowboy and everyone else who have the habit of honest intelligent productive thinking.
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With all due respect to your brain/mind, you guys keep on and on and on getting diffuse with introducing new but useless and disabling clear honest intelligent productive thinking.

Suppose we just name all the things that we can and do talk about, can you do that?

Of course you can but that takes time, do you grasp that, scil., it takes time?

So for our purpose here, on “From existence to the existence of God,” just accept that there are things in existence which are transient i.e. with a beginning and an ending, for examples, you and me and all humans.

The consequence of the existence of transient beings is that there is at least one permanent being, can you grasp that without bringing in useless terms like axiomatic etc. etc. etc.?

So, do you accept that in existence there are transient things like us humans and at least one permanent thing, according to these concepts of transient and permanent:

1. Transient means that a thing has a beginning and an ending, for examples, humans like we all here in delphiforums.com.
2. Permanent means it is all the time and place existing, like for example God (even just in imagination only, so that we can get to the issue): God is permanent in His existence and is furthermore self-existent that is why He is permanent.
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Don't bring in new terms which will serve you to show your stupid learning and titillate your self-gratification, when you don't understand words from me, then ask me for their meanings.
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Dear readers, let us just see if Net and Cowboy can be simple honest intelligent and productive with their thinking, or cater to their vanity with new terms etc. etc. etc.
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Happy reading and thinking!
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a reply to: Pachomius

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With all due respect to your brain/mind, you guys keep on and on and on getting diffuse with introducing new but useless and disabling clear honest intelligent productive thinking.

How does your concept of God help?
How useful is it?