Atlanta Police Chief resigns after Black Man shot

a reply to: Gryphon66

Before his absurdist argument he asked for documentation that tasers are non lethal in Georgia. You provided a quote that tasers are meant to minimize risk of injury. That doesn’t answer the request for proof. The link to their SOP has yet to work for me, and since you didn’t quote anything that answers the request for proof, here we are.

I think i can save time here a police issued tazer can be lethal if the person doesnt know how to use it. Run 200000 volts through the head and see if the person survives. Next in some states its illegal for the public to even have a tazer hawaii banned their use. Others require permits and others have no restrictions. Though i will say within a year or 2 most will have restrictions on the books.

Now there is no way you are going to let someone flee with apoloce issued tazer because they can increase the voltage. Now should the officer have been fired warching the video probably not this person became a threat to thr general public the moment he chose to fight with the officers.

However being within his rights to use force and being right to do so are two different things. There would have been nothing wrong with chasing him down and locking him up for several years.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Gryphon66

Before his absurdist argument he asked for documentation that tasers are non lethal in Georgia. You provided a quote that tasers are meant to minimize risk of injury. That doesn’t answer the request for proof. The link to their SOP has yet to work for me, and since you didn’t quote anything that answers the request for proof, here we are.

His claim/question was technically set up as a conditional either do A or do B. Perhaps I should have pointed out the fallacious nature of that "request" as it is both a loaded question and a false dilemma. I thought to act in good faith and demonstrate the regulations or rules or policies that the officer would have been operating under which SHOULD be the controlling factor in his actions, with consideration given to the situation and his own state of mind.

Given that member's subsequent claim that they were only asking for evidence of non-lethality by excluding the second half of their proposition/question, it's clear they were not acting in good faith.

If your interaction with me is intended to defend that other member from what you see as an unjust response, I'm sorry, I don't see it that way. If your intention is to drive home the fact that "non-lethal" is anecdotal I cede the point.

originally posted by: dragonridr
I think i can save time here a police issued tazer can be lethal if the person doesnt know how to use it. Run 200000 volts through the head and see if the person survives. Next in some states its illegal for the public to even have a tazer hawaii banned their use. Others require permits and others have no restrictions. Though i will say within a year or 2 most will have restrictions on the books.

Now there is no way you are going to let someone flee with apoloce issued tazer because they can increase the voltage. Now should the officer have been fired warching the video probably not this person became a threat to thr general public the moment he chose to fight with the officers.

However being within his rights to use force and being right to do so are two different things. There would have been nothing wrong with chasing him down and locking him up for several years.

So how was the cop to know if it was jacked up accidentally? Does he wait till he has the living life shocked literally from himself?

The cop has to shoot or he AND his partner plus many others could get killed by a murderer on the loose.

He has a split second to make that determination. You try doing that please.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Before his absurdist argument he asked for documentation that tasers are non lethal in Georgia.

as far as absurdist argument, what part of pointing out he didn't answer my question over and over or that they are classed as less than lethal is a absurd argument. then pointing out he only gave governing use policies is a absurd argument. really what's absurd about.

also isn't the laws of physics a set conclusions on the way things work in the world.
if so the second half of question stands, if the rest of the world says they are less than lethal, what law of physics makes them work differently in GA?

the whole thing started when grandby said they are non lethal in GA, what makes that so. no proof given.

you know there are 9 states if iirc that ban the use of tazes and i've forgotten how many countries. that there should also tell people something.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Granby

Tasers are less-lethal, chief. Taser has called them less-lethal since the early 00s.

This shoot is entirely justified. You strip an officer of his taser and try to hit him with it, you should expect to get popped.

OK champ.

If this is considered a justified shooting then the problem runs deep.

Minimum force necessary.
Cop was not hit with the taser
Guy was running away

Imminent threat to life was not there

They have radios. There was another cop there. They had his car and license.

He did not need to be murdered.

a reply to: Gryphon66

HDH is a big boy and certainly doesn’t need anybody’s help defending himself. If you took it that way, it certainly wasn’t my intention. My point of contention rests entirely on the non lethal/less lethal phrasing, nothing more.

Well, that and APD’s chief acting like a little # and the agency hanging their cops out to dry over a justified use of force.

originally posted by: Granby

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Granby

Tasers are less-lethal, chief. Taser has called them less-lethal since the early 00s.

This shoot is entirely justified. You strip an officer of his taser and try to hit him with it, you should expect to get popped.

OK champ.

If this is considered a justified shooting then the problem runs deep.

Minimum force necessary.
Cop was not hit with the taser
Guy was running away

Imminent threat to life was not there

They have radios. There was another cop there. They had his car and license.

He did not need to be murdered.

So your gonna say the Cops need to die for wanting to go home to their family when someone points a weapon, lethality IS weak but it sure as hell CAN be lethal?

It is lethal, there is no choice but to shoot.

a reply to: Granby

He did not need to be murdered.

Good thing he wasn’t then, amirite?

A man who just assaulted two cops, took a weapon from one of them, then tried to use that weapon against them is very much a threat. Right up until he stops running, drops the weapon, and is in custody. Running away from the cops towards other people while carrying a weapon you just stole from the cops does not make one no longer a threat.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Since you're talking to me out of the corner of your mouth, and the other member was referring to my claim, I'll be glad to address it with you.

You "asked" for evidence that either a) tasers are non-lethal or b) physics is different in GA. This is not a valid argument on two points. One, your "question" obviously intends to direct the answer to your preferred outcome, which is bad form. Second, you offer only two options when there are many ... we could prove that the incidence of a terminal outcome when someone is "tased" is infinesmally low. We could, as I did, cite the SOP for the officer that clearly demonstrates that, while it doesn't use either of the "non-lethal" or "less-lethal" terminology, it does state that the use of the taser is INTENDED as a solution to reduce agressiveness not kill the suspect.

Issuing a loaded question with a false dilemma, and then trying to cover up what you did, is over the line in terms of good faith in discussion ... IMO.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Fair enough.

Thanks for the chat.

a reply to: Justoneman

The cop does not deserve to die

Guy was running away
he fired the non lethal/less than lethal taser and missed
There was another cop

They handled this wrong


Also it is pretty damn sad that these two cops could not restrain this man.
From the video you can clearly tell the cop that had the guys back had no idea how to control him.

This is another part of the problem.

I am not into defunding the police but I am for redirection.

There absolutely must be training in how to control someone. Get rid of this Krav Maga crap they use and learn something useful.


To the police on this board

How much training do you go through learning how to control a person?
How often?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I just don't agree

Supposed to use minimum force necessary

The cop did not do that

Hopefully there is sweeping change

I think there will be but there will be more incidents like this first

a reply to: Granby

Its non lethal until you are incapacitated by it and they decide to curb stomp you instead of running.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Granby

Its non lethal until you are incapacitated by it and they decide to curb stomp you instead of running.

Well that didn't happen and the cop had a partner there too.

a reply to: Granby

Im not saying its justified. Only that someone pointing a taser at a cop is a threat on his life.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

There was a guy in my field office. Name was Scott. Bruiser of a dude. The SAIC (girly-man type) wanted us to be taser qualified. This meant taking the jolt yourself. Scott went first. When he recovered he said, "I swear I'll never use one of those on another human being." The qualification session ended just like that.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Granby

Im not saying its justified. Only that someone pointing a taser at a cop is a threat on his life.

I would say if the guy was not running and right on top of the cop pointing the taser than ok

Guy was running away and pointed it behind him as he ran away from two cops.

Why is the other cop there then?
I am the only one mentioning him.

I just cant see how this cop was in immediate threat of his life from a fleeing suspect.

a reply to: Granby

A potentially lethal threat to one’s life is met with a lethal response. End of story. Expecting anybody, cop or not, to wait until that threat is fully and entirely realized is asinine.

a reply to: Granby

You have no clue do you?
1. Controlling someone against there will means inflicting some level of pain. You hold they struggle you hold tighter, pain.

They then wriggle, kick, spit, anything with out any restraint to hurt You in an effort to get away.

All the time the police are not allowed to hurt the poor little darling.
Please how much training have you had controlling someone that is willing to kill you to get away?

FYI play wrestling doesn't count